My First Crash

[Ekona]

It's now been well over two months since this happened, and I now feel comfortable enough to discuss this amongst friends, so apologies for the long post. I will not be disclosing the car I was driving at the time, but it wasn't any of mine. It was, however, a car I am familiar with. 0-60 of the car in question is sub 5sec, top speed of over 170mph. Same rough size and weight of a Zed. The car also has modern TCS.

 

 

I've never had a crash before. Ever. Okay, so I knocked off a wing mirror from a Mini when learning in my Escort, but that doesn't count. I'd never had a full-on, holy-crap-this-isn't-fun crash before. What I tell you now is the absolute truth, no embelishments added or sections missed.

 

 

It was a Sunday morning, and the weather was overcast. Roads were drying up from the heavy rain the night before, but I still felt happy with going out for a drive. Not a massive blat as it wasn't that dry, but it wasn't soaking either. The car was borrowed from a friend who had gone away for the weekend and thrown me the keys, so I wasn't going to waste the opportunity to at least enjoy it partially.

 

I popped out to my local supermarket to grab some milk for breakfast, so a route I've taken literally hundreds if not thousands of times before. At the exit to the supermarket is a roundabout with a two-lane dual carriageway either side, and I wanted to turn left down the DC heading home. There was a Mini in front of me, so I let her go out first and then when I checked it was all clear, I followed. There was nothing behind me, or other cars entering the roundabout. Which, it turns out, was very lucky...

 

Turned left, started to straighten the car up and accelerate. Suddenly I felt the rear end go light and start to come round, so I kept a steady throttle and tried to correct. Very, very quickly I realised that this was beyond the point of saving, so I came straight off the gas and jumped onto the brake ("When in a spin, both feet in" and all that). The car stopped rotating and I was now pointing directly at the armco on the hard shoulder, and could only prepare myself for what happened next.

 

The nose jumped up a kerb, straight into the armco which caused the rear to then pivot and strike the same bit of the armco. This jolt pushed the front end back into the road and the rear followed, and the car rotated across both lanes coming to a rest against the armco on the outside lane, facing the wrong way down the road. Engine had killed itself after the initial impact, so I put the hazards on, took a deep breath and exited the vehicle. I walked across to the hard shoulder and called the police and recovery, in that order. I ended up with police, fire brigade and ambulance there (hat trick!), although sadly they didn't bring any spare underwear with them.

 

 

I should add at this point that I was perfectly fine, no injuries at all. The car, however, was not looking so good.

 

 

I've been over and over and over this in my head so many times over the last few weeks, and I still come to the same conclusions every time. I'll list them here, whether you agree with them or not is a matter for debate I guess.

 

1. Biggest cause of the accident? Me. Too much right foot for the conditions, clearly. If I'm putting numbers on it, I'd say that this takes up 90%. Okay, it was a road I was familiar with and a car I'd driven previously, but obviously I underestimated the conditions.

 

2. The speed at the point of losing control cannot have been any more than 40mph absolute tops, and I suspect more like 30-35mph. I had a car in front of me, I was still in the middle of the turn left, and the impact point on the armco is so close to the start of it that it would've been impossible to have been going much quicker at all. Still, suprising how quicly things went south even at that speed, when I've caught bigger 'oops' moments on track at higher speeds.

 

3. The supermarket has a petrol station. Now, I'm not using the old diesel-on-the-road excuse, but I suspect that either myself or the road may have had some kind of fluid on it. It happened too quickly.

 

4. In conjunction with the above, I've now noticed that there's a surface change from concrete to tarmac at precisely the point that you would put the power down. With the above, and the damp road, and the fact I wasn't in my regular car, I can't help but wonder if I applied the power when one tyre was on the tarmac and one on the concrete. I'll never know though.

 

 

 

Like I say, I take full responsibility for the results. I won't blame the car, and whilst I suspect the conditions and other points above were contributory factors, I was the one driving. The car is fixed now, although it did take 6 weeks, and the owner still talking to me so that's good. The worst thing to come out of it isn't the insurance rises or anything like that, but the fact that I've lost so much confidence in my ability. I won't lie to you, I will say that I was supremely confident of my driving abilities in the wet/damp before this: I prided myself on it. I may not have been that quick in the dry compared with others, but in the wet I was bloody good. I'd proven that over 12 years of road driving, numerous soaking wet trackdays and on multiple karting days too, and I'm generally considered to be 'the quick one' out of my friends when the heavens open. Now, I'm bloody terrified.

 

Where before I'd take certain roads at a given speed in a sporty car, now I find myself crawling round them (I'm probably not, but it feels like it). I've still got all the sensory inputs as before the crash, but even in my own cars I'm just so completely nervous when the roads get wet, and I find myself unable to press on at all. Now, maybe it's just me being more sensible (was I too confident before?), or maybe I'm just a huge wimp now, but there's no doubt that it's very much changed my driving style. In the dry I'm as I was, it's only in the wet.

 

I've been past that same bit of road in similar conditions in my own cars since, and there's not a hint of any trouble at all. It was probably a pure one-off, but it does bring home just how very quickly stuff can go south, regardless of how you view your own skills. I'd certainly still consider myself an experienced driver of fast cars, without trying to sound big-headed, but chuff me if there was nothing I could do when that back end started to come round.

 

 

 

As always, please be careful out there folks, and hopefully this exceedingly long post may make others think twice and save an incident.

 

And before anyone asks, no the tyres weren't mixed!

[Madmarky]

Sorry to hear this Dan. It sounds very similar to how i crashed my zed, as others will clarify I was not doing anything stupid at the time and going round a roundabout just lost control and was not able to get it back under control enough before clipping a kerb and shooting across a dual carriageway into the barrier. I was the same as you, I felt i was a fairly good driver and felt i knew how to control the car. I guess if i was not as confident behind the wheel as i was the accident could of been a lot worse. I would guess you did everything that is humanly possible to control the outcome and you just have to put it down to the fact that we can not control everything. Even racing drivers with hours of experience have accidents!

 

I am still to this day very weary of damp conditions and always in the back of my mind that it could quite easily happen again. You could drive the rest of your life without it ever happening again or it could happen next week, its just bad luck. Do not beat yourself up about it, it proves one thing and that you are actually only human. Im glad you were not injured and the car has now been fixed. Im sure in the long run it will make you a better driver.

[jumping350]

Sorry to hear buddy, you will be ok for someone who hasnt crashed that feeling is mad, and for driving so long and then having it must be shock to system, i had my major crash early on and felt just like you for months, didnt even want to drive again full stop, but overtime you learn and respect conditions even more than you did before, it will take time to get confidence back but your a better driver and we will be an even better one for having crash (though your pretty good by the sounds of it anyway)

Edited October 29, 2013 by jumping350

[WhackyWill]

Sorry to hear about the damaged, glad your OK.

 

I would put it down to "the nut loose behind the wheel"... :scare:

[marzman]

First things first - you're okay I assume apart from some dented pride? How's your back? With severe back trouble myslelf i know i'd be terrified about damaging my back with a jolt from a crash.

 

Secondly - can i ask what the insurance situation was if it was a mates car... were you fully comp?

 

Lastly, thanks for posting this. It will make others think twice (myself included) before putting their foot down around bends.

Edited October 29, 2013 by marzman

[mattross1313]

Sorry to read this buddy. Good thing is you were not hurt, your friends car is fixed, and everyone is still friends.

It can happen very quickly. Good post, and it takes some balls to be that straight with things. Most people would outright blame the road or some fuel etc for a crash as it was never their fault.

 

As for slowing down etc, I was out for a drive with some mates a good few years back and the two cars in front of me were involved in a bad smash when a jag pulled out of a t junction in front of them (bloody jag drivers eh!!). Even though myself or my car were involved this REALLY impacted my driving for maybe 6 months. Hopefully you will get the confidence back

[MrLizard]

sorry to hear about this dan, i think what you have said in terms of rethinking what grip was available for the two tyres on different surfaces must have been it, i had an incident at brands where i span almost the whole way down from druids across the grass and over graham hill, turned out something had got stuck under one of the wheels, only for a second preventing it from rotating at the same speed giving me slightly different amount of grip with the power on and immediately sent the car into a full spin....

 

Glad your ok

 

Steve

[GMballistic]

I've had a few crashes/spins in my time on the roads and track days Ekona. The main thing is you where ok and nobody else was hurt. Imo having a crash or spin can make you a better driver and as Madmarky said; "even racing drivers with hours of experience have accidents". Sometimes sh*t just happens. Don't beat yourself up over it.

[Ewan27]

Sorry to hear about your accident. To put a positive spin on things, I've crashed 2 cars (one ten years ago when I was 18, the other 5 years ago) and while it does take you a while to get your confidence back I think it's actually made me a better driver. The first obvious point is you're more careful in bad conditions. The second is that now you've experienced losing the back end you will be able to deal with it better if it ever happens again. A few months back I was driving my friends MX5, going -60mph on an A road and a young driver pulled out of a junction (turning right) in front of me. He saw me, panicked and braked - this was the worst thing he could have done as if he kept going I could have swerved on his inside but he left me no option but to swerve on the grass verge on the outside. As soon I passed him I swung the car back to the left, 360 in the middle of the road and ended up stopped with no damage to the car. Now I believe if I hadn't had the experience of a crash or two under my belt I would have panicked and ploughed straight into him. Of course this could have just been luck, but I believe when you've been beyond the limit of any car you understand how to deal with it in future.

[370Ad]

Takes a brave man to blame himself before the usual oil spill so hats off to you

 

Its starting to get cold and damp so lets hope this post saves a few other peoples pride and joys this winter.

Edited October 29, 2013 by 350Ad

[KyleR]

Unfortunately it's one of those things that have so many possible ways to get out of, but due to conditions probably only one was correct. I know they say keep a constant power and counter steer, but that only works for X conditions. Drift boys will say you should have countered and gunned it, but with the TCS on, it wouldn't have worked I imagine.

 

I had a lucky escape in the Zed last year where it was a left-right chicane type section or road and I was doing a constant 30mph, on turning left the rear end floated out, I came off the power and countered hard right, the rear end came around too far the other way, so had to counter left again, but by this time the car had slowed enough to gather it up and crawl on to the shop. That was caused by greasy roads and of course 30mph obviously being too fast in those particular conditions.

 

In different conditions on the same road keeping a constant throttle may have saved me, or maybe even flooring it, who knows, I just got lucky.

[chubbster]

Good post mate. I like honesty. And you certainly have got a good friend there. Hope he got a little prezzie.

 

Maybe getting yourself on a track day sometime this winter would help you to get rid of the jitters. After all, you know what they advise when you fall off a horse*...

 

 

 

 

*...although to be honest, I hate horses - bloody great big things with a mind of their own - and they'll kick you when you least expect it - bit like that car you were driving, I suppose.

[14N]

Thanks for sharing with us Dan. Sorry to read it but glad you're okay, which is the most important part.

 

It's strange how different experiences when driving can have differing effects on us and our driving style/technique.

 

I recently did a 'learn to drift' day as I thought it would give me more confidence and understanding of what the car was doing and how to control it in a 'what if' situation. But whilst driving this weekend in the wet I realised what it has actually done was demostrate just how easy it it to lose the back end on a RWD car and how easy it is for things to go wrong.

 

Instead of increasing my confidence, it's actually slowed me down (especially cornering) when conditions are not exaclty favourable. Which I also guess in turn has made me a little bit safer driver.

[wmr1980]

Wow that must have been scary, even more considering it wasn't your car. I've had a few close calls, and "hmm why is this happening I haven't done anything to warrant the car getting all out of shape?" Fortunately I got away with it, though I've been knocked off my motorbike and had one big off on my bike in the past.

 

Good of you to share your experience, it's a sobering thought to all of us, even those of us with dozens of years of experience driving cars, it can happen to anyone.

 

These things happen, and irrespective of blame or fault, sometimes accidents do happen, even if they were avoidable,and it sounds as though you weren't being over the top in your driving, it sounds as though it's one of those poor conditions, powerful car and not catching it quickly enough, of course not driving within the conditions...

 

Lastly I don't think anyone should be in be in a position to judge as we've all faltered before, despite not everyone willing to share the experience as eruditely as you have.

 

At least you're okay and your friend is still talking too you! What did the police say?

[brillomaster]

was said car mid engined perchance? maybe in a front engined car you'd have caught it, but mid engined cars are a bit snappier, and get to the unrecoverable stage faster!.

 

But even so, glad you were ok - get out on a nice wet trackday to get your confidence back!

[chubbster]

Thanks for sharing with us Dan. Sorry to read it but glad you're okay, which is the most important part.

 

It's strange how different experiences when driving can have differing effects on us and our driving style/technique.

 

I recently did a 'learn to drift' day as I thought it would give me more confidence and understanding of what the car was doing and how to control it in a 'what if' situation. But whilst driving this weekend in the wet I realised what it has actually done was demostrate just how easy it it to lose the back end on a RWD car and how easy it is for things to go wrong.

 

Instead of increasing my confidence, it's actually slowed me down (especially cornering) when conditions are not exaclty favourable. Which I also guess in turn has made me a little bit safer driver.

You're right, I had exactly the same experience some years ago - apart from the 'slowed me down' bit.

[rtbiscuit]

Ekona you remember my crash in the mr2 yours sounds almost identical to what I went though. It does knock your confidence, but it will come back. I have found in the many years since that crash that I think it's made me an even better driver in the wet. I tend to read the road and conditions even better now. I'll ring you later am interested to know who's car you borrowed. Does their name begin with M?

[Vik54]

Dan - as others have said - at least you have cojones big enough to reflect on it - take it on the chin and learn from it ... and you haven't been injured or lost a friendship over it either Although this scenario is the exact reason I turned down my GBF the other month when he chucked me the keys to his new Porker for a wee shot - sadly later on that day I also discovered I had lost my passenger speed mojo whilst hairing accross the Yorkshire dales

Onwards and upwards sweetie

[aidan]

Feel for you bro.

 

So uncrashable skyline GTR????

 

Almost the same as you - unfortunately (or fortunately), the R33 GTR was mine.

Small roundabout, slightly damp, but a roundabout I have been around a 100 times.

Chatting to my mate, not bombing it. Music on. Just get off roundabout, boost creeps up and BANG - I'm spinning around. Popped up kerb, hit signpost and sigh.....Mate got out an was sick. I just felt it.

All in, 5 secs and 30-40 mph.

 

My fault??? Probably but just goes to show, don't have to be being an arse to crash.

 

I have honestly went around same roundabout 20mph faster on other occasions without a twitch.

 

Conclusion - bus depot is on the first exit of said roundabout. Diesel?? Probably.

No excuses...but does make me more cautious on road conditions.

 

 

Also trashed a 916 due to over confidence in the rain on a track day.....just thought I'd mention that one. And yes.....TOTALLY my fault.

Edited October 29, 2013 by aidan

[Fodder]

Sorry to hear that and something similar happened to me but on an M road.

 

I was maintaining speed around 55mph as although it wasnt raining at that time the area I was driving in had just had a proper dumping of rain. I hit standing water though and the car just reacted very different to what I was expecting (I believe my inexperience was at fault and not the car).

 

I also looked at the scene afterwards and noticed right where the standing water was was a patch repair to the surface. Funnily enough this was soon repaired after my accident and now there are signs advising of te danger of standing water.

 

It took a long time to get any confidence in adverse conditions as the majority of the blame was mine.

The important thing is you've accepted it and there is no long term damage to yourself, other road users and your friendship.

[Ekona]

Thanks for the kind words folks, it's much appreciated and I genuinely mean that. I'll try and pick up on a few bits mentioned, sorry if I don't do it by name.

 

 

My back's fine, as was I as really the impact didn't seem that much: It was certainly noisy, and it's a noise I'll never forget, but i was very well strapped in and secured so no movement to whiplash or anything.W

 

With regards to doing trackdays/drift days/driver training, I've done loads of that in the past. Well, never a proper drift day, but I've been sideways plenty of times on track to feel comfortable doing it (see the footage from the SXOC day at Anglesey this year with me and Docwra for proof of that!). I've done multiple days with Andy Walsh too, both in MR and FR cars to get an understanding of vehicle dynamics, and in truth I think it's this that saved me from a bigger crash. I tried to catch it, but I think when you're used to catching stuff sliding and something still feels very wrong you know quickly when to give up, and just jump on the brake and pray for the best!

 

I hate horses too. Fell off one of those when I was younger, didn't bother getting back on and don't miss it at all.

 

Luckily, and I still cannot believe how lucky this was, but my friend had paid £20 to put me on their insurance properly for the weekend. Without that, I'd have been absolutely stuffed. It's put driving other cars in a different light, as I used to be very happy to drive someone else's car regardless as long as I had 3rd party cover, and whilst I wouldn't rag it I wouldn't exactly hold back. I've driven some pretty expensive machinery that way, and it's only now that I realise just what could've happened! My new rule is that if I can't afford to repair or replace it if I write it off, then I don't drive it full stop. So I'd be happy to drive someone's early JDM Zed, but not someone's new 370Z they'd only picked up the week before.

 

 

If you live in Essex and look out of your window today, that's kinda the conditions it was when I had the accident, to give some kind of perspective to it.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Ekona

[Flex]

Wow, that was a small price to pay on the insurance!! As you say totally worth it.

[Ekona]

Can you believe he actually complained at the time, having to fork out £20!

[Suits]

Good read, appreciate the honesty.

 

As others have said, the confidance will return in time.

 

I had a big off at Eau Rouge in my S2000 in the rain in 2010, I thought I had it for the conditions and kept pushing to get quicker, then got the entry wrong and ER pwnd me.

 

That put me back about 2 years driving confidance in the wet I reckon.

 

 

 

ps - I'd love to know what car .

[chubbster]

If you live in Essex and look out of your window today, that's kinda the conditions it was when I had the accident, to give some kind of perspective to it.

 

I don't live in Essex, so I google-imaged 'view of essex' to see what the roads look like and - seeing what came up - it's no wonder you lost it, under those appalling road conditions. It looks soooo slippery...