glrnet Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Its put a downer on the missus, shes a flight attendant fir Condor. Also there is much chatter among the Ground staff, as we Ramp Agents are last contact with the aircraft. Oh bloody hell, sorry to hear that BM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Its put a downer on the missus, shes a flight attendant fir Condor. Also there is much chatter among the Ground staff, as we Ramp Agents are last contact with the aircraft. not good, I am shocked as to how much this has bothered me tbh.Obviously it goes without saying it is an absolute tragedy and a real step back for European aviation ... but I can't stop thinking about it all, how the families must be, the last moments of the people on the plane, why someone would kill others, what actually happened, the emotion on the plane when they knew what was happening.... these kinds of things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I didn't say they were fully trained, just 'able' to do so. Aye, I think its a basic "youre more likely to get down in one piece" course rather than a full ATPL A Flybe F/O is also on less money than a BA Bursar would be, makes you think, particularly when one will have racked up 80K of training debts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've played MS FlightSim. I could land a big ol' Airbus, easy. Oddly, despite the fact I work in aviation (of sorts), all this stuff about planes crashing and getting lost and all that doesn't bother me one jot. Couldn't tell you why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've played MS FlightSim. I could land a big ol' Airbus, easy. Oddly, despite the fact I work in aviation (of sorts), all this stuff about planes crashing and getting lost and all that doesn't bother me one jot. Couldn't tell you why. If it's your time, it's your time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Can't help thinking that given the security in place nowadays at airports terrorists will be looking for any cockpit crew who show interest into their sadistic culture to down planes. Afterall, many are prepared to sacrifice themselves on the ground to be become so-called martyrs and you can't help wondering if that was what led to the fate of MH370 as well as this latest case.... Just hope those thoughts are proved unfounded for the sake of all those in the industry, their customers and anyone otherwise potentially affected. @ Dan: I can assure you that having been on a plane that was in the air at the same time that plane was downed (and not a million miles away either) it has had a profound effect on future air travel for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 That's a shame if true mate, no-one should stop doing something they enjoy just because of one lone nutcase. Are you never going to fly again then? Security at airports is all for the media, trust me when I say it's an utter sham and makes no difference if someone is dead keen on doing some harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinyflier Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The point of having one of the Cabin Crew in the cockpit isn't to fly the plane or stop the pilot in command doing something "ill advised" - all that person has to do is "open the cockpit door" and you don't need flight training to do that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 That's a shame if true mate, no-one should stop doing something they enjoy just because of one lone nutcase. Are you never going to fly again then? I was just surprised at your somewhat dismissive comment on air safety when I know how keen you are aboiut safety on the roads and on track. Can't say I have ever "enjoyed" commercial air travel - just a means to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Fair enough point. Like I said, I can't explain it myself tbh, maybe it's just because any incidents are so incredibly rare and completely out of my hands that it's not something I remotely worry about. Maybe enjoy was the wrong word, but has this stopped you from ever flying again? Or considering it, at least? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Oddly, despite the fact I work in aviation (of sorts), all this stuff about planes crashing and getting lost and all that doesn't bother me one jot. Couldn't tell you why. Because of the 3.3Bn people that flew commercial last year, only 700 odd died and youre a pragmatist? Since I started working in aviation nothing worries me anymore, Ive seen firsthand the lengths that EASA, FAA and the other authorities go to and you would have to be so, so, so unlucky to be involved in an incident its not even worth thinking about. You can find me on the plane quite easily, Im the only guy cheering like hes on a rollercoaster when we hit heavy turbulence 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What do long distance train drivers do when they need the toilet, they cannot leave their seat and as far as I know there are not two of them..!! The experienced ones will take an empty bottle with them . On long distance trains and built into the timetable are drivers breaks, for example at Crewe the train may be scheduled to stop at the station for 5-7 minutes, rather than leave the minute passengers get off and on. Of course, it's even more difficult for city and town bus drivers. Most (if not all) are operated by just the driver so he is not allowed to leave the bus at any time and there isn't much privacy in a bus . Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Can't help thinking that given the security in place nowadays at airports terrorists will be looking for any cockpit crew who show interest into their sadistic culture to down planes. Afterall, many are prepared to sacrifice themselves on the ground to be become so-called martyrs and you can't help wondering if that was what led to the fate of MH370 as well as this latest case.... Just hope those thoughts are proved unfounded for the sake of all those in the industry, their customers and anyone otherwise potentially affected. @ Dan: I can assure you that having been on a plane that was in the air at the same time that plane was downed (and not a million miles away either) it has had a profound effect on future air travel for me. Similar effect to me, I used to love flying, But then I had to fly to Florida the day after 9/11 - Needless to say I am no longer a fan of flying (I've been on several flights since then) But I've got my first flight in about 5 years coming up this year, only a short one to Spain, but still not looking forward to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Can't say I have ever "enjoyed" commercial air travel - just a means to an end. That's how I view it too. I have a mild case of fear of flying, my hands sweat on both take off and landing and my pulse shoots up, irrational I know but there's nothing I can do about it. Once in the air though I'm pretty much O.K. I once experienced an emergency landing at Atlanta, problem with the undercarriage, but strangely remained absolutely calm while others around me were hysterical (especially on the brace command )....go figure. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I used to love flying, But then I had to fly to Florida the day after 9/11 There were no flights to any U.S cities the day after 9/11, probably the 13th I would say. I had only just flown back from The States when 9/11 happened, I think it was the 6th September, so it put the wind up me too. The next time I went to America was in September 2002, the flight from Atlanta to Denver had less than 40 passengers and its usually 100% occupied. Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I used to love flying, But then I had to fly to Florida the day after 9/11 There were no flights to any U.S cities the day after 9/11, probably the 13th I would say. I had only just flown back from The States when 9/11 happened, I think it was the 6th September, so it put the wind up me too. The next time I went to America was in September 2002, the flight from Atlanta to Denver had less than 40 passengers and its usually 100% occupied. Pete Aye probably that then, I was only about 9/10 then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodder Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Can't help thinking that given the security in place nowadays at airports terrorists will be looking for any cockpit crew who show interest into their sadistic culture to down planes. Afterall, many are prepared to sacrifice themselves on the ground to be become so-called martyrs and you can't help wondering if that was what led to the fate of MH370 as well as this latest case.... Just hope those thoughts are proved unfounded for the sake of all those in the industry, their customers and anyone otherwise potentially affected. @ Dan: I can assure you that having been on a plane that was in the air at the same time that plane was downed (and not a million miles away either) it has had a profound effect on future air travel for me. i wondered about MH370 myself and wether to was a terrorist attack but I very much doubt it. Surely they'd want all the publicity that "they" could and claim responsibility early on. Sadly I think like this case it's likely to be an act by a single person who at that point in time for whatever reason decided to take everyone else's life along with their own. I can't help but feel for those poor persons on board knowing they were having their last moments and couldn't do anything about it. Air travel doesn't really worry me though and like others I can't explain why this hasn't impacted that negatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Its been on the news over here nonstop. Police have searched his flat and have found that the Co-Pilot was medically restricted, but the Co-Pilot never handed them in at Germanwings, instead he tore them up and threw them away. The guy was mentally ill and was waiting for an oppertunity for when he was alone in the cockpit. Imagine if he had the chance to crash the aircraft over a city, doesnt bear thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I have read somewhere since all this - that it is possible for Ground Crew - Pilots - to take over the flying of an aircraft - but this is not done. Makes you wonder why not ? I think the reason this flight disaster is possibly effecting/affecting ? - some of us more than others - is it was practically on our doorstep, many of us know the area crudely and also because we have so much more data being fed to us we feel are able to either visualise or feel the effect of the events. Very sad we have such people in the world that decide to kill others in the quest to kill themselves though. I cannot imagine waiting at an airport for a plane that does not arrive and never will - with your friends or family just gone. I found the flight board - with no status beside it gave me the jitters. Seems the UK is not the only Country that does not deal with Depression and similar illnesses either promptly or take it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Looks like there was a recent split with his girlfriend.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I have read somewhere since all this - that it is possible for Ground Crew - Pilots - to take over the flying of an aircraft - but this is not done. Makes you wonder why not ? Not entirely the same but it's a little known fact that many flights have pilots and other aircrew flying as passengers. I remember one flight I was on I was sitting next to a stewardess who was flying from Denver, where she lived to resume her duties in Chicago....her captain was sitting a few rows back. Then there's the case of the DC-10 in 1989 that lost all control when part of the engine exploded severing all the controls. Luckily, very luckily for them there was another pilot/instructor on board flying as a passenger, a certain Dennis Fitch who almost certainly saved hundreds of lives. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Fitch Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Wendy, control of the aircraft from the ground never took off due to fears about it being hacked and aircraft crashed on purpose. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Wendy, control of the aircraft from the ground never took off due to fears about it being hacked and aircraft crashed on purpose. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, tbh. Who'd take on the IT security contract for that? Get it right and it's a few million quid of business and get it wrong and there's a million people queued up to sue you, not to mention corporate manslaughter charges that could be brought. If one person broke into the technology for one plane, they could concievebly crash all the planes in the air, all at once before anyone knew it had gone turbo. If it turns out that this guy was mentally ill, I find it much more worrying that they either didn't know how seriously ill be was or they disregarded it. That's the sort of thing that normal procedures should pick up, no need for new tech or 12 men in the cockpit or other knee jerk responses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If it turns out that this guy was mentally ill, I find it much more worrying that they either didn't know how seriously ill be was or they disregarded it. That's the sort of thing that normal procedures should pick up, no need for new tech or 12 men in the cockpit or other knee jerk responses. This. If what the news is currently reporting is accurate (if!) - that the co-pilot had a torn up doctors note signing him off work in his home - the problem in this case is caused by his employers either not knowing about this or disregarding it. That's not something that's going to be resolved with remote control planes or a cram-as-many-people-as-you-can-into-a-cockpit competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's really disturbing is the fact that it wasn't a dive to kill everyone immediately, but a gradual descent into hell. I think that's what a lot of people struggle to comprehend. We don't even know if it was depression yet: The minimal amount of info we have could mean he'd been diagnosed with cancer or something equally serious, and he just couldn't cope with that news. I'm not saying that's what I believe, just that we cannot assume depression at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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