The 2017 GE & Politics Thread

[coldel]

UKIP mob all moving back to the Tories is mostly whats going on (look at Essex) I think.

[Jetpilot]

The problem is, we are back to the popularity thing, if whoever decides to tax fatty foods, bang goes a sh*t load of votes from fatties!

 

Unless all parties decide to do it, which personally i think with issues like this, they should for the national interest.

 

I cant see the constant rise in, tax (of whatever form), duty on fuel, fags and alcohol is addressing the problems!

 

Taxation flew up on cigs but smokers still voted for the ruling party?

 

I agree though, any government should conduct some sort of policy research before committing.

 

There has pretty much always been duty on fags though, same as fuel, i bet if there was no duty on either and it was introduced it would be a vote looser and thats kind of

what i am saying, we obviously cant get by on the same old, increase tax and duty on fuel, fags and alcohol.

 

I know its probably not popular but i think chucking actually money to those on social scary, sure they need help, but why give them cash to spend on fags, alcohol etc and not a credit card style top up that can be redeemed at shops/supermarkets for food etc

[The G Man]

I have no love for the Prime Minister (PM) or her political party, I've seen the devastation that 50 years have brought to my part of the world through Labour (L) domination and, I have no time for them, but in Westminster, you need some form of opposition, on one side, the priveleaged with their billionaire donators, on the other, an organised working class opposition, who can only rely, mostly, on their Union affiliated donations to operate.

 

Hopefully in the next few years, you'll have what you want and, I'll have what I want. I will tolerate opposition, I'm not sure you, or those like you will.

Given that I've stated numerous times that the reason Corbyn needs to go is because the UK desperately needs a strong (and stable) Opposition for the government to function properly, I choose to ignore your not-so-subtle dig sir. We do need an Opposition. We don't need Unions.

 

Unions used to be very important back in t' days of working down t' mill, but these days they're useless, toothless, and perfect examples of champagne socialism. The train driver thing serves as the perfect example of this.

 

 

In more general answers to your questions, if an employer tries to change my contract illegally then I shall take them to court over it for breach of contract, something that has evolved in UK law over hundreds of years. If I don't like more general practices then I'll leave and work elsewhere. Would I work for Sports Direct, given a choice? I've no idea, but in theory I have nothing against them in principle. Do I think they're a stand-up example of an employer? Not at all, but no-one is forced to work there.

 

You're quite wrong when you say that worker's rights are not enshrined in law, and I mean proper statute stuff as well as common law. Employment Right Act 1966, HASAW Act 1974, Working Time Regs 1998: They're the main ones, which are of course backed up by numerous amounts of case law precedents.

 

You do need opposition, unions offer this in the way they finance, at the minute, opposition parties. The reference to working in mills, shows your disregard for your fellow worker and their rights for representation, you come across as someone who has had a bad experience when dealing through a union, some form of grievance that has been rejected.

 

The train driver thing?? This demonstrates a lack of understanding in the safe working of the infrastructure that millions take for granted but have scant or no knowledge.

 

Taking an employer to court. Which is what you advocate, if you were put upon by an employer. You must have an extremely large savings account, please tell me what solicitor would take this on after your 30 minute free consultancy without warning you of the financial risk?

 

The sports direct example was a direct question, would you work there?

 

The three pieces of legislation that you refer to have more protection toward the employer, than the employee, one, written in 1966 is 51 years old, couple of amendments from then, but firmly enshrined in the last century and skewed toward the employer, please read it, as well as the HASAW Act

 

Are you in a union? Have you ever been in a union?, what is your underlying beef with unions? What experience, if any, do you have of being in a union that gives your outlook on them? What disappointed you and why?

Edited May 5, 2017 by The G Man

[The G Man]

Yes connotations are families in misery, no safety of the line, no help for disabled passengers, no safe person to go to in the metal tube that is the train when you are under threat.

 

And the misery caused to 1000's of commuters reliant on the trains to get their job, or even worse, open the doors (excuse the pun) of their business?

 

If the upper echelon have decided one man can push the button, thats their decision, jobs cant be kept just to keep someone employed (like the mines), if their business suffers because of safety etc again thats their business, thats for bosses to decide not the staff.

 

i often wonder how many of these union employees would react if the shoe was on the other foot, i.e if they were running a business, i cant see for one minute they would keep people employed unnecessarily.

 

i fully appreciate workers rights in the working environment, but no one has the right to a job.

 

The misery of the commuter was not apparent before the for profit, Train Operating Company (TOC) decided to change the workings of an already safe environment, to that, that introduced risk. It's the TOC that may be intransigent here, not the employees. By strong representation in a unionised environment and, for no monetary gain, the employees are trying to keep the 1000's of commuters safe, not save costs, with no gain to the commuters.

 

It is necessary to keep employees, if they are keeping the public safe, again, you show scant or little knowledge of public amenities. Would you take your children, or advocate, because you don't use them, that public swimming pools did not have life guards to save costs? But be happy to put more at risk through a misapprehension that guards are not needed.

 

I do hope this is not the case.

Edited May 5, 2017 by The G Man

[Ekona]

Would I work at Sports Direct? I've no idea, but I've nothing against them in principle. So depending what the job was and my circumstances, yes. Why would I rule out a completely legitimate and legal source of income? Let's assume you're talking about the folks on the shop floor on minimum wage, I can only assume they're there because they're desperate for cash and can't get a job elsewhere. If I'm in that situation, I'll take money from any (legal!) means I can find. Rather there than McDonalds tbh.

 

As I said, I'm not pretending they're the Google of the UK and a joy to work for, but people do have a choice to work for them or not.

 

Unions should not be financing political parties, and neither should big businesses. There should be a limit on the amount any one entity can donate to political parties. Would you disagree with that?

[gangzoom]

So it looks like the Tory party will be in for a while longer yet. I have my principles but also need to make sure the mortgage/nursery fees gets paid.

 

Maybe its time to take up offers of private practice and get an accountant, as they say if you cannot beat them join them

[Ekona]

Just think of the fleet of Teslas you could buy!

 

Our accountants got bought out back end of last year, so I've a new guy doing ours now. I'm not sure that he's as good as the old one yet, will wait until I get my tax bill this year to make a decision on that I think.

[-G-]

I'm very surprised about how the LD have done, I'll be honest. SNP not making anywhere near the expected gains in Scotland either, with more Tory gains there as well. PC doing well in Wales though.

 

SNP not making the gains? 425 elected in 2012, 431 elected yesterday. That's a net increase of 6 despite already being the largest party in Scotland.

 

They still have the most seats of any party and now have to most councillors on half of the countries local authorities. That's in spite of the fact Scotland elects councils using proportional representation (Single Transferrable Vote), not FPTP like in England. If our voting system was FPTP, you'd have seen every council seat go to the SNP.

 

 

If replicated across Scotland on June 8th under first preference voting, the SNP would keep all thier Westminster seats.

 

Sometimes I wonder where you couch experts get your sage-like wisdom of Scottish politics. 🤔🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄

 

[TT350]

I'm one of those people to whom politics means nothing.

 

Disillusioned.

 

It's like, how do you want to be executed? Bullet to the brain or guillotine?

 

Same end result.

 

The little man should still invest in lots of desensitising anal lube.

[Ekona]

Blimey, I wrote that at lunchtime, it's always nice to look back with the benefit of full results

 

Why is the BBC website showing a loss of seven seats for the SNP? Your numbers look right to me, so I'm confused there. However, given that the SNP either gained 6 or lost 7 is almost by-the-by, given that the Tories gained a massive 164 seats in comparison: Having a Tory in Glasgow is almost unbelievable! The SNP also have no control over a single council now, losing their single one they had.

 

Labour now back in third place too, not going to be pretty for them in five weeks in Scotland I think.

[Zeezeebaba]

Rather than totally refer back to my earlier posts I will reiterate.

This election is nothing but a Tory exercise in affirming TM in the PM position pre Brexit negotiations. After all when DC stood down none of us elected her.

 

There is absolutely no point in talking about a forgone conclusion and another 5 years of Tory government.

Bored now!

TT350 your spot on mate.

[Jetpilot]

Yes connotations are families in misery, no safety of the line, no help for disabled passengers, no safe person to go to in the metal tube that is the train when you are under threat.

 

And the misery caused to 1000's of commuters reliant on the trains to get their job, or even worse, open the doors (excuse the pun) of their business?

 

If the upper echelon have decided one man can push the button, thats their decision, jobs cant be kept just to keep someone employed (like the mines), if their business suffers because of safety etc again thats their business, thats for bosses to decide not the staff.

 

i often wonder how many of these union employees would react if the shoe was on the other foot, i.e if they were running a business, i cant see for one minute they would keep people employed unnecessarily.

 

i fully appreciate workers rights in the working environment, but no one has the right to a job.

 

The misery of the commuter was not apparent before the for profit, Train Operating Company (TOC) decided to change the workings of an already safe environment, to that, that introduced risk. It's the TOC that may be intransigent here, not the employees. By strong representation in a unionised environment and, for no monetary gain, the employees are trying to keep the 1000's of commuters safe, not save costs, with no gain to the commuters.

 

It is necessary to keep employees, if they are keeping the public safe, again, you show scant or little knowledge of public amenities. Would you take your children, or advocate, because you don't use them, that public swimming pools did not have life guards to save costs? But be happy to put more at risk through a misapprehension that guards are not needed.

 

I do hope this is not the case.

 

As said elsewhere, lets not make this an issue over "safety" claims, both the Rail Safety and Standards Board and the Office of Road and Rail (both independent) have said DOO trains are safe and present no increased risk AND meet LEGAL safety requirements providing the correct procedures are followed.

 

DOO trains have been around for some 30 years, its nothing new, if there was increased risk to safety in this day and age, they just simply wouldnt exist, so lets not get weighed down by blindly believing everything unions spout as gospel.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jetpilot

[Jetpilot]

Rather than totally refer back to my earlier posts I will reiterate.

This election is nothing but a Tory exercise in affirming TM in the PM position pre Brexit negotiations. After all when DC stood down none of us elected her.

 

There is absolutely no point in talking about a forgone conclusion and another 5 years of Tory government.

Bored now!

TT350 your spot on mate.

 

You and TT are both spot on, but one thing you both seem not to be adressing is, the Tories gains are through votes, people are changing their parties, not just staying at home because their party is a showe of sh*t, they are actively supporting the party and its policies, which is worth talking about.

 

Remember what happened to Labour, they lost votes when TB was replaced with GB, not gained a vast majority.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jetpilot

[BobbyZ]

I'm one of those people to whom politics means nothing.

 

Disillusioned.

 

It's like, how do you want to be executed? Bullet to the brain or guillotine?

 

Same end result.

 

The little man should still invest in lots of desensitising anal lube.

 

I can understand being disillusioned with politics, but bear in mind that this country still has a very high standard of living and good opportunities. The important thing at this stage is to make sure it stays that way...

[TT350]

I realise that some may do more for the country and its people than others who are just absolute turncoat's and sell outs and only interested in their own financial gain and certain immunities and privileges that being an important influential mp brings.

 

But generally they're a self serving, self preserving, privileged bunch of Oxbridge muppets with a lifetime membership to the old boys club by default.

 

If politics wasn't just about that bunch, which when it reaches a certain level, it is, then I'd be more interested.

 

A bunch of stuffy old farts (If not in age then by nature) claiming to know what's best for a people they know nothing about nor want to, does not interest me.

 

They haven't a clue. How can they hope to lead us?

 

Brexit is a huge exercise in what happens when a bunch of double crossing arrogant self serving snobs get complacent with their people and don't listen.

 

And that's what Brexit is, really. It's not about racism, it's not about migration, it's primarily about the majority of a public being fed up with having no voice where it can be heard.

 

They're listening now.

 

 

 

 

[Jetpilot]

Labour or Lid Dem for you then

[Jay84]

So if there was a box to tick on the ballot declaring that none of the parties are your preferred choice you'd tick that? It'd be a dangerous box to have, and one that would give a scary insight into how people feel they are being represented by those at the top.

People talk about changing in standards between L&C being in power. I have to say that as the stereotypical mr average, I have never felt the changes for better or worse. However my wage has increased through promotions and career changes.

[Stutopia]

They're listening now.

 

Are they?

 

Which post Brexit policy initiative, from any party, would you say is a result of them "listening now"?

[TT350]

They're listening now.

 

Are they?

 

Which post Brexit policy initiative, from any party, would you say is a result of them "listening now"?

 

Well, in so much as, they wish they made a contingency plan for leaving the EU. As it's currently chaos. They thought the public at large would NEVER be brave enough to vote leave.

 

If they'd listened, they'd have made sure they could A) stop a brexit and maintain every last bit of personal income and privileges should Brexit happen.

 

 

[Stutopia]

They're listening now.

 

Are they?

 

Which post Brexit policy initiative, from any party, would you say is a result of them "listening now"?

 

Well, in so much as, they wish they made a contingency plan for leaving the EU. As it's currently chaos. They thought the public at large would NEVER be brave enough to vote leave.

 

If they'd listened, they'd have made sure they could A) stop a brexit and maintain every last bit of personal income and privileges should Brexit happen.

 

I totally agree that a lack of paying attention to the voters impacted the Brexit result. I just don't agree that absolutely anything is being done differently as a consequence.

[Jetpilot]

Well, in so much as, they wish they made a contingency plan for leaving the EU. As it's currently chaos.

 

We could have had a plan a, b, c and so on, but the good old EU deathstar could have derailed every single one, i still cant quite get my head around how this is ever going to be resolved, but so far, apart from our £ not going so far, has anyone really been affected?

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jetpilot

[Ekona]

My holiday cost more

[TT350]

They're listening now.

 

Are they?

 

Which post Brexit policy initiative, from any party, would you say is a result of them "listening now"?

 

Well, in so much as, they wish they made a contingency plan for leaving the EU. As it's currently chaos. They thought the public at large would NEVER be brave enough to vote leave.

 

If they'd listened, they'd have made sure they could A) stop a brexit and maintain every last bit of personal income and privileges should Brexit happen.

 

I totally agree that a lack of paying attention to the voters impacted the Brexit result. I just don't agree that absolutely anything is being done differently as a consequence.

 

So far in as it effecting us, probably nothing. They're all scrambling to save their own asses at the moment.

 

My neighbours are young, early 20s. They've lived a privileged life up until their mother fell from grace when she was found to be having an affair. Her husband booted her out, and her children chose to come too.

 

They've been in university until, maybe the past year. Hell, the mother has been at university for years. She's 60.

 

But anyway. They're "posh". Vegans. Very PC in general. Anti-this-that-and-the other.

 

I was having a conversation with the two younguns.

 

They both voted remain. They didn't really know why. Other than that they thought being a global village was a good thing and to not want to be open to and freely integrate with a global village was clearly and solely racist.

 

Speaking to them you get a sense of how hand fed they are with regards to facts (and fiction) by their tutors and other arty farty friends. And it's a shame. They consider themselves enlightened and just and fair. Fighting for the poor, underprivileged and downtrodden members of other European countries to come and live here as equals. It's not their fault.

 

But, they did say that, as a British person who's unemployed or in a low paid job, well, that's their fault and tough luck. Should have tried harder at school.

 

Why do we look down on our own people, but pity others from other countries? They say voting leave shows no compassion and reinforces xenophobia.

 

Aren't we showing that to our own by shunning them?

 

Sorry. I've got off point there. The point was that these privileged old boys Oxbridge club are all self serving and their young aspiring minions get hand fed BS.

 

PS; I can't be accused of racism and xenophobia. None of the people I speak to or associate with are English and my new GF is Turkish and an atheist lol.

Edited May 6, 2017 by TT350

[coldel]

Wow loads of interesting stuff to debate, my tuppence for what its worth:

 

Rail unions dress up unrealistic pay rises with borderline BS about safety, I agree its debatable about closing ticket offices/staff being isolated in quiet locations etc is safe but other issues around track safety is just all utter BS and you are fool to believe it - how comes every time there is a strike about safety the issue of guaranteed pay rise levels (utterly ridiculous notion in this day and age) are put in as part of the conversation. I for one minute do not believe unions act in the interests of public safety, only acting to remain favourable to members that pay to be part of that union and their wages. And lets not even talk about the voting system whereby less than half of members vote and only half again vote to strike

 

Brexit was a great learning experience, I don't think anyone on that mammoth thread I started really caught the mood correctly with our views, that protest votes would stretch so far. People voted against the EU, they couldn't have voted for non-EU as there was nothing on the table that was at all convincing (apart from garbled stuff around £350m per week to the NHS, £350m a week for the armed forces etc even though we only send £190m a week in any case if you added up all the promises we are going to be spending billions a week). There were some horrendous amount of BS from both sides going around - with people so willing to believe what 'confirmed' what they wanted to believe and ignore anything else said to them even if it was irrefutable.

 

As for not being affected by Brexit, well of course not, yet. Economics is not an on off switch. How do supermarket prices work for instance? Well, they hedge their purchasing, which means agreed currency rates for 6-12 months on imports. Most supermarkets import around 60-80 percent of their food stuffs, many of those hedged prices expired beginning of this year which is seeing food prices pushing up inflation. If we do not sort a trade deal, the combination of currency issues and potentially WTO rules coming in could mean your supermarket bill going up 20-30% Lets not even think about the loss in taxation if tens of thousands of jobs leave the city (Goldman Sachs the latest) to go set up passporting rights in the EU, a report earlier this year showing that 20% of new startups will build their base in the EU not the UK and many other factors that could impact long term growth

 

This GE its becoming clear through the strong and stable message is that TM wants enough votes to push her agenda through the house on Brexit, nothing more. My fear is that she has already burnt a few bridges with her hard approach, the longer the trade deals take, the harder it will be for us.

[gangzoom]

My holiday cost more

 

It's not just your holiday anything that's imported is going up in price. Our Tesla now costs nearly £20K more to buy today compared to 12 months ago mainly due to the weak £. Microsoft/Apple/Samsung have all upped their prices.

 

Investors on the FTSE have had a field day as a weak £ means their numbers all look better, but for the average person on the street it essentially means your hard earned cash buys you less stuff.

 

Will be interesting to see which way things go, currently low interest rates is keeping the housing market afloat, no doubt if interest rates go up than peoples spending power will drop even more. Looking at things like PCP deals on new cars which drives the car industry, you can easily see if cheap PCP deals start to be pulled due to rising interest rates than manufacturing output will need to be lowered which in real life means job losses.