The 2017 GE & Politics Thread

[Aashenfox]

Who cares about the GE anyway, democracy fails yet again...nobody knows what they are voting for and nobody knows what they'll do behind our backs anyway. It's all so totally and utterly pointless, might as well draw straws instead. Why am I suddenly feeling this way? Loss of faith in my fellow voter...

 

http://www.lbc.co.uk...ward-to-losing/

Edited May 2, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Jetpilot]

 

 

I think she just heard about having herself face down in Dans pillow

 

I wonder where Labour would be now if they had voted in the correct Milliband in the first place...

 

Not a snipe, but its not Labour voting them in is it, its the idealistic unions stuck in the past, the party clearly wanted someone else at the helm and its pretty apparent, so do the Labour voters.

[coldel]

I wouldn't take much notice of that - I think calling out individual laws will get nowhere in a macro argument as much as asking a remainer what laws do they think should be introduced that would benefit the UK. This guy has made a vote and his belief is that he prefers to have laws made here not passed from the EU. Ignoring that something like less than 5% of UK law encompasses EU law and that a lot of it is there to protect the UK and its workers rights is irrelevant I think the bigger headline if we are looking down and seeing some plank ranting on about how this will now mean muslim's cannot come here and make pure UK bred people extinct...now there is a moronic post if ever I have read one, ever in fact

 

Persevere, some people do still try to understand politics!

[coldel]

 

 

I think she just heard about having herself face down in Dans pillow

 

I wonder where Labour would be now if they had voted in the correct Milliband in the first place...

 

Not a snipe, but its not Labour voting them in is it, its the idealistic unions stuck in the past, the party clearly wanted someone else at the helm and its pretty apparent, so do the Labour voters.

 

Trade unions were one of three groups involved in bringing a new leader, the members of the house and individual party members - there had to be support from other areas aside from unions.

 

Just on a topical note, Dianne Abbot put herself forwards I believe for the role too in 2010!

[Jetpilot]

I appreciate there are other voters, but i certainly seem to remember both with Ed and JC (TWICE) were heavily backed by the unions giving them the majority.

[coldel]

Its a one for one vote - unions cannot 'outweigh' the other groups especially the membership. But as they are all of a similar mindset at the moment in terms of union left then its no surprise it goes so strongly that way anyway. Not saying at all that the unions do not have a bigger say than they should.

[Zeezeebaba]

Unions are a good thing if kept in check, however anyone remember the dark days before Thatcher. State owned enterprise unions would down tools for very simplistic problems which affected the countries productivity.

As a kid I remember the news being awash with strikes by nearly every union sector.

An ex work colleague of mine worked for Leyland at Cowley and some of the stories he came out with would he laughable now.

 

 

[Ekona]

Unions are completely useless these days, ironically because we have so much employment law that they were desperate to have. The only thing a union is good for is to protect the old boy's network they have amongst themselves, which again is ironic as that's what they hate about the current government.

 

The union rep is always the least-liked person of any workplace. Anyone else notice that too?

[Jetpilot]

^^^ This, same as political correctness imho, great in principal, but abused.

[The G Man]

Unions are completely useless these days, ironically because we have so much employment law that they were desperate to have. The only thing a union is good for is to protect the old boy's network they have amongst themselves, which again is ironic as that's what they hate about the current government.

 

The union rep is always the least-liked person of any workplace. Anyone else notice that too?

 

Having no idea of your circumstances regarding your employment (plumber at Stanstead?), who would you turn to if aggrieved at an employers decision you thought was unfair?

 

Would you work for an employer such as Sports Direct, if you had the choice?

 

How would you feel if someone like Philip Green, took over your pension rights and stole them? (employment law? Where was it here?)

 

Your employer, decides tomorrow, that you are now on minimum wage, in a zero hours contract (what employment law protects you from that?)

 

What exactly is your knowledge of 'employment law'? Or is it your perception of employment rights?, the ones that unions fought for since feudal times? There is only one employment law that you, as an employee has, if you are organised and backed by a union, that is the right to strike, withdraw your labour to unscrupulous employers, who will exploit you, for their gain.

 

All this has nothing to do with a General Election (GE), and, I'm glad you've got some youth on your side, hopefully you will never find yourself in a position of trying to take a case to an industrial tribunal against an employer, if you are non unionised, be prepared to have deep pockets, with no idea of the outcome and having, primarily a group of employers deciding your fate, which is uninforceable, as you don't, as a worker, have the right to enforce.

 

Workers rights, are not enshrined in U.K. law. I think we've got the gist of your position on the GE, but don't dismiss the importance of calling any government to heel. Unions, have in the most part have made sure that you, as an employee, are not placed in a position of compromise or danger, right down to the fact that if you have an employee that has returned to work after pregnancy, they are obligated to provide a room, to breast feed a baby if there is provision at that employees workplace. This is an Agreed Code Of Practice (ACOP), not the law, but something that is put in place for those disadvantaged on return to work.

 

If you are not part of a union, good luck to you, but in a union, you are not on your own.

 

It makes my **** boil when the importance of organised union activity, which includes going back to the Tolpuddle Martyres where people were hanged because they wanted employee rights, are dismissed by the far right as not relevant.

 

I have no love for the Prime Minister (PM) or her political party, I've seen the devastation that 50 years have brought to my part of the world through Labour (L) domination and, I have no time for them, but in Westminster, you need some form of opposition, on one side, the priveleaged with their billionaire donators, on the other, an organised working class opposition, who can only rely, mostly, on their Union affiliated donations to operate.

 

Hopefully in the next few years, you'll have what you want and, I'll have what I want. I will tolerate opposition, I'm not sure you, or those like you will.

 

That was a long post, I can't promise that I will respond to any other replies, however hard right they are

[BobbyZ]

I know I have the right to find a different job if my employer's a **** - that's the beauty of the free market.

Edited May 2, 2017 by BobbyZ

[The G Man]

I know i have the right to find a different job if my employer's a **** - that's the beauty of the free market.

 

Yup, withdraw your labour

[BobbyZ]

Right, so I don't need (or want) a union.

[The G Man]

Right, so I don't need (or want) a union.

 

Up to you , it's your right . That's the beauty of democracy.

Edited May 2, 2017 by The G Man

[coldel]

When I was a school teacher everyone in the school was on a union for the sole reason to get legal support in the case of any 'accusation' that is levelled at you by a pupil. I know a member on here RTB declined to join a union and sorted his own legal cover.

 

In terms of principles, Unions are spot on, why would you not support workers rights? Unions make the rod for their own back from anyone outside public sector by hurting those people with strikes that on some occasions seem far too self centred and not seeing to be part of the rest of the countries suffering, it seemed 2008 onwards when companies are laying off people, cutting salaries to 0% pay increases, cutting benefits etc that Unions call for strikes to get that x% pay rise, protecting it against yearly impacts etc. which seems out of kilter with the economic environment.

 

Things I cannot quite get my head around are nurses being paid £20k-£35k whilst tube drivers (and no disrespect to them its not the most mentally taxing job in the world) are knocking around the £45k-£55k mark?

[Jetpilot]

And people who defend, possibly give their life for their country get less than a nurse, go figure.

 

When a union is striking over who closes a train door, I am afraid thats a step to far.

[Zeezeebaba]

My old mate Pete RIP worked for British rail back in the day. I remember him calling me after privatisation like he had won the lottery. All the drivers had received what equated to a 110% pay rise.

That was the way Thatcher diluted union power, deregulation and privatisation.

[The G Man]

And people who defend, possibly give their life for their country get less than a nurse, go figure.

 

When a union is striking over who closes a train door, I am afraid thats a step to far.

 

I did that (put my life on the line), but you quite clearly don't know what the connotations are regards the train dispute.

 

My two sisters, daughter, son in law and niece are nurses, I don't see what your point is. I was paid considerably more by the Army than they get, go figure.

Edited May 2, 2017 by The G Man

[The G Man]

And, bearing in mind, non of the above has anything to do with a GE, it's all a bit mute

[The G Man]

 

Things I cannot quite get my head around are nurses being paid £20k-£35k whilst tube drivers (and no disrespect to them its not the most mentally taxing job in the world) are knocking around the £45k-£55k mark?

 

This is no fault of the tube drivers, obviously strong union positions are at play here. Tube drivers do not determine what nurses are paid.

[Fodder]

I totally get the the reasoning behind a workers union BUT my experience of them which I admit is somewhat limited is the fact that the many layers of union are as corrupt and open to influence as the hierarchy of corporates and have their own best interests at heart, not the members.

 

I've heard of people following what their rep has told them to do despite what common sense says as they are afraid to step out of line. I remember belonging to a labour club as their pool tables, beer and darts were cheap, if you questioned the commitee or even spoke out of tone you were removed as a member.

 

The legal aspects as Coldel states are very worthwhile but the shepherding of members is out of order as far as I'm concerned.

[Jetpilot]

And people who defend, possibly give their life for their country get less than a nurse, go figure.

 

When a union is striking over who closes a train door, I am afraid thats a step to far.

 

I did that (put my life on the line), but you quite clearly don't know what the connotations are regards the train dispute.

 

My two sisters, daughter, son in law and niece are nurses, I don't see what your point is. I was paid considerably more by the Army than they get, go figure.

 

As I am sure you know a squaddi gets circa 20k, that is less than 25k that codel mentions.

 

Conotations are job losses, nothing more, nothing less, lets not hide behind "safety" spin.

[The G Man]

Yes connotations are families in misery, no safety of the line, no help for disabled passengers, no safe person to go to in the metal tube that is the train when you are under threat.

 

A soldier is paid what the government determines, not what a union determines. You really must bring that to the attention of your prospective candidate, not me. I served no matter what I was paid.

[Kieran O'Quick]

Hey, guess what I'm only the agenda setter..

 

Radio Leeds came into my shop last week asking for questions to put to the Labour MP Richard Burgeon. .

 

So I says - "Labour would be a great vote for most people round here but they just seem too wishy/washy. If they got tough they'd hoover up loads of the UKIP votes. So my question is, what's the policy on law and order - I haven't heard it yet?"

 

They gave the question to Burgeon and tbf he said people shouldn't be scared in their homes - sending criminals to prisons that are universities of crime is wrong etc. He did use the word "rehabilitation" once which was a bit of a let down though.

 

Next thing you know Labour is becoming the toough-on-crime party while the Cons are actually saying cuts in policing are ok purely because of some badly presented media work by their obvious double-agent Dianne.. .

Edited May 2, 2017 by Kieran O'Quick

[The G Man]

double agent reference