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When it comes to law I would love if the government put each individual case down to public vote. See what the majority want to happen. Have a phone app.

 

It does go to the public, a jury.

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8 mins between first 999 call to poppin' caps in terrorists. Impressive from our police force, and other emergency services.

Pics of the pretty young thing or GTFO

I find comments about numbers in these sorts of discussions a bit depressing. We're not computers or robots. Of course, statistically the numbers killed in London and Manchester aren't huge in the gra

When it comes to law I would love if the government put each individual case down to public vote. See what the majority want to happen. Have a phone app.

 

It does go to the public, a jury.

no it doesn't ........... the jury decide if they are guilty (or not) the judiciary decide what sentence to hand down - .............. i prefer the x-factor type red button - linked to the electric chair

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The three terrorists should be given to the pigs to eat. Video it. Would be humiliating and difficult for there own to class them as martyrs if this was done

Because that wouldn't encourage more attacks at all, would it?

 

You do realise that sinking to their level makes us no better, right?

Try again? Or just do a normal post, I'll assume it was a reply to my comment :)

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Which would be wholly inappropriate in cases like last night. Plastic rounds are crowd control, not for stopping murderers.

Agree 100%.

 

But my point is that police do shoot to neutralise.

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shoot to kill that's what a gun was invented for. They were all most probably be on the terror watch list just like the Manchester bomber. This stuff is going to become more and more frequent. The worst thing is us as the public aren't prepared for it as they are all random attacks.

 

Its all good and well May the PM saying "we will not back down to terrorists ect etc" she is the 1st to get rushed off in a armored vehicle to some nuke proof safe house guarded by 30 guard's with MP5's and handguns for side arms and M15 on speed dial

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As far as I know there is no such thing as shooting to neutralise in law enforcement

Then what are plastic bullets and baton rounds for?

 

This discussion is about the actions of the live ammunition response team who responded to the London attacks. I was discussing where the shots are aimed, not what type of ammunition was used, as that's what the person I was quoting was talking about. Plastic bullets and baton rounds are formally called 'less-lethal' rounds, not non lethal. Anything fired will always be fired at center of mass, whether they are lethal rounds or less lethal.

Edited by colesl4w
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shoot to kill that's what a gun was invented for. They were all most probably be on the terror watch list just like the Manchester bomber. This stuff is going to become more and more frequent. The worst thing is us as the public aren't prepared for it as they are all random attacks.

 

Its all good and well May the PM saying "we will not back down to terrorists ect etc" she is the 1st to get rushed off in a armored vehicle to some nuke proof safe house guarded by 30 guard's with MP5's and handguns for side arms and M15 on speed dial

 

And I'm glad she is, head of government can't become a victim to these fools.

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As far as I know there is no such thing as shooting to neutralise in law enforcement

Then what are plastic bullets and baton rounds for?

 

I was discussing where the shots are aimed, not what type of ammunition was used, as that's what the person I was quoting was talking about. Plastic bullets and baton rounds are formally called 'less-lethal' rounds, not non lethal. Anything fired will always be fired at center of mass, whether they are lethal rounds or less lethal.

Yep they were developed by the British Security force for use on rioters in Northern Ireland (1970's AFAIK) as a direct replacement for "rubber bullets". Both can and have killed people in the past so definitely not something you could ever call "non-lethal".

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shoot to kill that's what a gun was invented for. They were all most probably be on the terror watch list just like the Manchester bomber. This stuff is going to become more and more frequent. The worst thing is us as the public aren't prepared for it as they are all random attacks.

 

Its all good and well May the PM saying "we will not back down to terrorists ect etc" she is the 1st to get rushed off in a armored vehicle to some nuke proof safe house guarded by 30 guard's with MP5's and handguns for side arms and M15 on speed dial

 

And I'm glad she is, head of government can't become a victim to these fools.

 

She is like the rest of them a puppet

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shoot to kill that's what a gun was invented for. They were all most probably be on the terror watch list just like the Manchester bomber. This stuff is going to become more and more frequent. The worst thing is us as the public aren't prepared for it as they are all random attacks.

 

Its all good and well May the PM saying "we will not back down to terrorists ect etc" she is the 1st to get rushed off in a armored vehicle to some nuke proof safe house guarded by 30 guard's with MP5's and handguns for side arms and M15 on speed dial

 

And I'm glad she is, head of government can't become a victim to these fools.

 

She is like the rest of them a puppet

 

Irrelevent, She's the highest position of government (until thursday at least) and she cant be touched on principle alone. Imagine how they would celebrate that if she was to fall victim to them?

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It's a shame that there isn't a way around killing them. Obviously with the fake suicide jackets, that's what they wanted. They wanted to be killed so they can collect their many virgins in heaven and became martyrs.

 

For them that is a great honour.

 

If we could somehow just maim them, then we could get some info from them. However how much I don't know. They obviously wanted to die in the first place and you can't get info from someone like that. They're nucking futz!

Edited by The Bounty Bar Kid
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Yeah, you won't get information from them. We are at the point where we need snatch squads, anyone on the watch list needs their doors kicked in by the SAS and rounded up. Build a secure purpose built prison, offshore would be better, and then 'question' them there. Or a cheaper option, snatch them and make them disappear, most people wont agree with that but we are in a no win situation. We need drastic action and we need it now, if we upset a few snowflakes in the process so be it. The more we tiptoe around the more innocent victims they will claim.

 

/rant

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so they can collect their many virgins in heaven and became martyrs!

 

I wonder if the nutters are aware that the many virgins in heaven are all blokes!!

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I understand the anger, and having traveled into London to work today as normal am as close to it as most (the Westminster attack was 400 yards from where I work). But I really cannot disagree any more with that Willsy. There was this exact thing in the US called Guantanamo Bay and many people are there for years before they are released as shown to be innocent. Look at how many people were arrested post Manchester and Westminster and subsequently released as they had nothing to do with it. Heavy handed 'rounding up' has been seen in the past in Nazi Germany and later in places like Rwanda and former Yugoslavia - you talk about saving innocent victims, what about the innocent victims you round up and deport or imprison. What about if it was you, would you agree its fine for you to be slung in a prison for years on end unjustly to save innocent lives?

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Tbh, I think we're all being a bit naive if we think our security services don't already pick certain people up and just hold them for 'debriefing' for a while. Probably not in this country either.

 

It's the mass lock-em-up "The Siege"-style incarnation that will never and should never happen.

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I get where you're coming from Coldel, but it just seems all the ones responsible are on 'the list' and are known to have traveled to the hot spots for these Daesh/ISIS strongholds and have familial links to extremism. If they are know to have any links in any way the must be questioned. Im not talking Gitmo torture etc but the need serious attention, this is like a guerrilla war on your own doorstep.

Again yes, many arrested and released as not 'Connected' but what is to say they won't be connected to the next one ? It's a very fragile situation and any action in the wrong direction will only spark more attacks.

Im interested to hear what you think would be an appropriate response or course of action to weed out those who pose a threat ?

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I think i put it in the other thread...or maybe faceache, but yeah chances are it does happen, but it doesn't make the papers because 'Mr X was arrested yesterday for questioning and was found to be innocent in every way' is hardly riveting journalism.

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The trouble is you may not know they pose a threat until the attack is happening. Saturday's attack was carried out with a hire van and a couple of knives: Nothing that is likely to immediately flag up as danger. You can't interrogate every Muslim bloke who has been to Syria in the last 5 years simply because they rent a Transit.

 

Ultimately, it's going to be the use of undercover ops, some clever bids at GCHQ and most of all the Muslim community that's going to prevent further attacks.

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I fully agree that a big part of it is for the communities to out those who are 'a little nutty' shall we say, I know quite a few people in the Muslim community either by working with them or via other friends and they hold similar views as we do, this is not in their name yet I fear the longer this continues, our own idiots will begin to surface.

I guess our other option is to ride it out, eventually they will have either blown themselves up or been shot after a stabbing. We do have to admire the response time from the Met after the London attack, 8 minutes from 1st call to neutralising the threat was pretty impressive.

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