S2000s, any experts?

[docwra]

So almost perfect solution except maybe -

 

The £32,000 difference in price? Thats only 400% TBF I guess ........

 

Got to be honest, I think youll miss the power and torque Dan, they arent that light either. If a VX is in budget I reckon thats much more up your strasse

[Aashenfox]

The best thing about the S2000 is that it's an adventure EVERY time you get in it. The worst thing about the S2000 is that it's an adventure EVERY time you get in it.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Keyser]

So almost perfect solution except maybe -

 

The £32,000 difference in price? Thats only 400% TBF I guess ........

 

Got to be honest, I think youll miss the power and torque Dan, they arent that light either. If a VX is in budget I reckon thats much more up your strasse

 

Well he can shop around you don't have to buy the first one you see - but the SR3 is not road legal so he will need the SR3-SL so that may be closer to £60K

 

Of couse what you really want is an SR3 a trailer and a nice camper van to tow it with then you can tour all round Europe in comfort and stop of at the various tracks including Spa and the Ring do a few laps then onto the next.

This may of course take him over budget even futher but he could always sell the BMW

[nub]

I think that looks amazing. They are great cars but as stock they're not really in the same league as a 370z. I've not owned an S2k but I've had a supercharged FN2, an EP3.. not the same engines but similar. They tend to not make their stock 237bhp, handle very well and I think the AP2 setup was revised somewhat to be a bit safer. I would never own a stock one, because the performance is not enough by far. Great for 2ltr of course. However they would make a great platform for a boosted project. Ideally turbo IMO, and subjective or controversial as it may be, I love that kit. It does not look like a car manufactured since 2001. With a minor facelift. Looks great IMO with that kit and some CE28ns. Same kinda reliability as the K20 yet I think it has forged internals so 400-500bhp is probably alright. Even K20s can run 400bhp on stock internals, torque being the limiting factor of course.

I suppose you could get decent power on it with full bolt ons, maybe 260bhp? Wth decent power to weight and a good chassis, some of them rev to 9000rpm they can be fun. But again, for me it would need to be charged. I don't think the interior is so bad either, certainly on par if not maybe a bit better than a 350z? A car which I haven't owned either 😀

Hard top looks better IMO and they are holding their value really well. Although ultimately BHP/tonne its not really much slower than a stock 350, much like the Type Rs with NA K20s they have pathetic low down power, and no real usable torque. So you will have to down shift to extra posrr

If I had not already had a Supercharged type R FN2, a turbo spoon S2k would have really appealed to me, only they're a bit more expensive than the civics, ultimately with 400-500bhp boosted you're looking at supercar killer performance, they're around 200kg lighter than my 370Z, they look like small cars too. No I'm definitely not into stance ! But I love a spoon S2K. Mpg is a fair bit better than our engines and overall they're a cheaper option to run and maintain compared to a 350Z IMO... it's not really fair to compare to the 370Z I feel, as it's a generation behind almost. Also if it's anything like the other K20s, the gear changes are probably flawless. Even my FN2 gear changes were far slicker than my 370. Synchro Rev made up for it though

 

 

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I don't think it's fair to say they're not in the same league, since they are playing totally different sports. One's a muscle car, one's a race car on the road. As a sports car, the 370z cannot compete with an S2000, the S2000 is far lighter, nimbler, quicker in the corners and quicker to change direction. The 370 has almost twice the engine size (but nowhere NEAR twice the power), and is far less agile, even witht he S2k having the compromise of being a cabrio (stiffening and roof motors added a lot of weight, if you can dispense at least with the motors, you can save another 80kg in roof mech parts. This is the main reason to permanently fit a hard top, which does improve the look of the car compared to soft top up, but not with the top down.

 

The AP2 revisions were made for 1 reason only, the Americans. They were crashing them left and right, so Honda added traction control, and of course they were selling poorly because the Americans had no idea how to drive a high revving 4 banger and everyone thought it had no power, hence torque increase and redline decrease. Thank GOD the European models did not undergo this bastardisation.

 

Coilovers, MPSS and a supercharger and you have a real weapon.

 

Comparing an S2000 to a civic is equally inappropriate. One was purpose built by Honda to show off what race car technology they could put on the road for reasonable money, the other is a granny's shopping trolley with a quick engine (and I say that as a proud ex-EP3 owner, it's got nothing on the S2k. Absolutely nothing). Neither the engines, nor handling characteristics are remotely similar or comparable, despite having similar internals.

 

Yes, it is controversial to turbo an S2000, most would say you retain the car's character with a supercharger, if you really must go FI. You can get 300 at the crank NA from an F20C, but it ain't cheap AT ALL. 350whp supercharged cars are notoriously difficult to drive, a friend of mine had one. Fun, but omg scary.

 

I also forgot to mention in my original post Dan, the brakes need a major upgrade before the power, they're pretty rubbish, classic Honda weakness.

 

Chill out mate, I was refraining from going into too much detail on here because I assumed this forum isn't full of Honda enthusiasts, clearly you know your stuff and I know a bit too 😉

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and I was not comparing the S2k to a civic for that reason, but only because my supercharged FN2 project with 'Mugen' rep kit etc was fantastic quality and good performance, yet a fair bit cheaper than the equivalent S2000 spoon build which was a genuine plan of mine for some time. the aftermarket parts are so much more expensive. that's the charger kits themselves and most importantly the market for S2000 used parts in the U.K. is far far smaller than the Type R civic market. I'm pretty sure the spoon body kit alone is several thousand if you can get it shipped over here. yet the kit in my picture below cost me less than £1700. I was lucky to pay £2300 for my chargecooled CT Engineering kit 2nd hand. Yet for any S2000 turbo or supercharger kit, well good luck finding a used, looked after but reliable kit on the 2nd hand market to begin with. More than likely you'd have to simply buy a kit brand new for £4000-£7000 that's a complete guess depending on what you buy w/o supporting. My FN2 was a low mile champ white edition worth around 10k, the equivalent S2k low miles and 09/10 plates were like 15k to begin with IIRC. So you see my point anyway; a good S2000 project with boost is significantly more expensive than an FN2 project, I won't even consider the older EP3. And yes, the S2k has more potential than both.

Likewise, as a base platform, I'm fully aware you could build a supercharged 500bhp Rotrex S2000 track weapon that is far more capable than even a boosted 370Z, in a straight line and in the corners with some high end coil overs, more chassis strengthening, stripping etc. The 370z is just too heavy to begin with and like you say, the engine output is not as efficient. 2.ltr K20s in EP3s make 270bhp with only bolt ons and cams, makes our 3.7ltr V6 sound pretty weak. However ours do 'sound' better. And when I said the 370 is in a different league, of course I meant stock for stock. The S2k made in 2000ish and the 370 came out 9 years later and a higher price. Sportscar, GT or whatever I know it's not a fair comparison but you don't need to teach me about Hondas cause I'm already a big fan. Although my new 370z is lovely to drive and ultimately a superior car, with some more NA power and tuning, at best I can only hope to match my supercharged FN2s performance. Until I supercharge that as well.

 

 

 

 

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[Aashenfox]

Sorry mate, I didn't mean it to come across that I was disagreeing with you, I just wanted to elaborate on a few of your points, it's all good, I don't have any issue with the points you made, it's just that I know the S and the Civic well. I almost bought a Frankie FN2 before I bought the Z, it had a tuned NA 2.4 from an RSX and 350z brembos on it, it was a total maniac 310 crank. I made the mistake of asking the guy to reduce it a grand, and he sold it to someone for the asking price the next day without even telling me. Serves me right, it was already a bargain. Glad I got the Zed now though, cos I've been Hondaboy for a long time, it was time to feel some torque below 6k.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

I'll be very clear and say that I don't want anything aftermarket FI, and I definitely don't want a FWD scrabble wagon 200bhp/ton is more than enough to have fun with.

 

Got to be honest, I think youll miss the power and torque Dan, they arent that light either. If a VX is in budget I reckon thats much more up your strasse

See, I remember them feeling very light on their feet considering, and that was coming both after the VXR220 and alongside the 350. Maybe rose tinted specs though.

 

VX2.2 are just about doable if I stretch the budget by a couple of grand and accept it might be a snotter.

[Aashenfox]

See, I remember them feeling very light on their feet considering, and that was coming both after the VXR220 and alongside the 350. Maybe rose tinted specs though.

 

 

And I'd agree with you. It all comes down to how you want to drive. If you are a naturally aggressive driver, you won't lose anything from the S, in fact it's the perfect car for aggressive drivers, you'll rag it everywhere and arrive everywhere you go with a big grin on your face, you'll never miss the torque and power because you'll always be in vtec anyway. But If you're a conservative driver naturally, you will soon get pretty tired of having to drop 2 gears to do anything interesting, horses for courses. Same reason the yanks didn't like it. As they say 'if the S isn't fast enough for you, you ain't driving it right', it's an anecdote of course, but it has 'some' truth in it.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Aashenfox

[docwra]

See, I remember them feeling very light on their feet considering, and that was coming both after the VXR220 and alongside the 350. Maybe rose tinted specs though.

 

 

in fact it's the perfect car for aggressive drivers, you'll rag it everywhere and arrive everywhere you go with a big grin on your face, you'll never miss the torque and power because you'll always be in vtec anyway

 

Other traffic anyone? Speed Cameras? Towns, villages and other urban conurbations? Blind corners?

 

As someone who knows the car pretty well but isnt Hondisti my memory was that I was really taken by it on an extended test drive ......... but bought a 350Z anyway.

Then my brother got one and I was jealous ........ but after borrowing it for a week had fallen out of love with it a bit, it was just a bit incessant without actually being *that* fast.

Then I drove my mates track prepped one at Spa and thought it was a great tool ......... but still preferred my rather non-standard 350Z.

 

When they are edging into Elise and VX money Id be looking at it more as a fun investment than a weapon.

Edited February 14, 2017 by docwra

[Jetpilot]

VX2.2 are just about doable if I stretch the budget by a couple of grand and accept it might be a snotter.

 

Quite a few on the market at the moment and a fair bit of talk of owners moving on, might be a good time, pretty much the dead of winter and a few available to play off against each other, just try to get one with the heater done.

[Strudul]

Or a kit car and a coat...

[Jetpilot]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VAUXHALL-VX-220-RED-BLACK-53408-MILES-/222404104663?hash=item33c85151d7:g:85cAAOSwZ1BXfk2o

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VAUXHALL-VX-220-RED-BLACK-53408-MILES-/222404104663?hash=item33c85151d7:g:85cAAOSwZ1BXfk2o

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-VX220-2-2i-16v-2002-Lightning-Yellow-/142271723182?hash=item21200e36ae:g:ND8AAOSw4DJYmlrn

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VAUXHALL-VX-220-BLUE-Based-on-LOTUS-ELISE-Possibly-track-sport-classic-car-/122354760317?hash=item1c7ce97a7d:g:4a0AAOSw32lYosxX

[coldel]

Don't go near anything coming out of TVRGlen, well known in VX community for producing shiny cars with umpteen hidden problems.

[Aashenfox]

Other traffic anyone? Speed Cameras? Towns, villages and other urban conurbations? Blind corners?

 

Entertainment. Let's face it, the S2000 is a rude boy as a car. It's in yer face, loud (even stock, comparatively) and shaped like a giant penis (see pic) for raping the road.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

Don't go near anything coming out of TVRGlen, well known in VX community for producing shiny cars with umpteen hidden problems.

Good to know the VX guys consider him as bad as the Lotus guys do, wouldn't touch his stuff with a barge pole.

[nub]

Sorry mate, I didn't mean it to come across that I was disagreeing with you, I just wanted to elaborate on a few of your points, it's all good, I don't have any issue with the points you made, it's just that I know the S and the Civic well. I almost bought a Frankie FN2 before I bought the Z, it had a tuned NA 2.4 from an RSX and 350z brembos on it, it was a total maniac 310 crank. I made the mistake of asking the guy to reduce it a grand, and he sold it to someone for the asking price the next day without even telling me. Serves me right, it was already a bargain. Glad I got the Zed now though, cos I've been Hondaboy for a long time, it was time to feel some torque below 6k.

 

My FN2 made 230lbft, and 200lbft from 3500 but that felt a bit quicker than my current 370z @ 304whp, must be because it's 200kg lighter , oh and the gearing was a lot shorter even with my longer FD. Is there a roots or twinscroll charger made by someone?

 

 

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[un1eash]

I'm tempted to get back in an Elise but go for a tidy S1 and drop in some 135 MGTF cams to give it more top end power.

[Zeezeebaba]

I had an AP2 and ran it from 86k miles to 98k. All mine ever needed was tyres and a pair of rear calipers otherwise no issues at all aside from using a bit of oil. My only gripe was the digi speedo, but the rev lights noise and poise more than made up for it. In comparison to my Z the S2k was more lively in the wet too.

I'm a massssive vtec fan and owned a raft of fast Hondas. By far the most reliable cars I've owned.

Oh and ssshhh don't tell anyone but I preferred the way the S2k drove over the NSX, sacrilege I know.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Zeezeebaba

[Ebized]

Before buying my first ZED in 2005 I tried one but for eveyday road use it didn't measure up for me, the lack of low down torque and nowhere to store the hard top being the big downers. That said, it sure was fun when you got it wound up and sounded glorious in the process. So yes, I would expect it to be great fun on track.

 

One thing that was said from the research I did (at the time), was that it was 12-13 hour job to do a clutch change - how true that is nowadays though?

[Commander]

EKONA - So are you getting rid of the 6er then? Or is this a second car?

[Ekona]

It'll be a 4th Bummer stays, Scooby stays, truck stays, I just need a convertible back in my life.

[Aashenfox]

Before buying my first ZED in 2005 I tried one but for eveyday road use it didn't measure up for me, the lack of low down torque and nowhere to store the hard top being the big downers. That said, it sure was fun when you got it wound up and sounded glorious in the process. So yes, I would expect it to be great fun on track.

 

One thing that was said from the research I did (at the time), was that it was 12-13 hour job to do a clutch change - how true that is nowadays though?

 

My one and only clutch change (OEM) on the S cost me 1200 euro, 400 euro of that was parts, so about 600 quid in labour and was performed by an official dealer. That was about 7 years ago, and at teh time it felt ridiculously expensive, but I don't know how long it took them or actually what's really involved in changing the S clutch.

 

I remember it being a much more expensive car to own than the Z (so far) in terms of cost of spares and labour, but much cheaper by miles in tax.

[nub]

Before buying my first ZED in 2005 I tried one but for eveyday road use it didn't measure up for me, the lack of low down torque and nowhere to store the hard top being the big downers. That said, it sure was fun when you got it wound up and sounded glorious in the process. So yes, I would expect it to be great fun on track.

 

One thing that was said from the research I did (at the time), was that it was 12-13 hour job to do a clutch change - how true that is nowadays though?

 

My one and only clutch change (OEM) on the S cost me 1200 euro, 400 euro of that was parts, so about 600 quid in labour and was performed by an official dealer. That was about 7 years ago, and at teh time it felt ridiculously expensive, but I don't know how long it took them or actually what's really involved in changing the S clutch.

 

I remember it being a much more expensive car to own than the Z (so far) in terms of cost of spares and labour, but much cheaper by miles in tax.

 

That's called Honda labour rates, S2000 Ishtar an expensive car if it's anything like my EP3/FN2.

 

 

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[RickyZ]

08-09 Production S2K's can suffer from engine rattle. Apparently its a fairly common problem so avoid any built in those years. The only fix is a new engine apparently which may have the same issue

 

My mate just bought his second one S2 last week and was told about the issue from Tom @ TGM Fleet so i reckon it must be true...

[Bodyboarder81]

Yes the engine failure % on the 08-09 plates what's a lot more .... can't remember why , something to do with engine supplier .

 

I'm on my 2nd s2k . Up your budget and get a good 04-07 and I reckoned you'll make money on it .

 

Rust is an issue though , just like the older Zed's really . Just have a good look around the rear arches when you view the car .

 

First thing I done was rub all the rear arches down to metal and protect them .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nissanman312]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=649549791913880&id=138401783028686

 

On the topic of Honda check this beast of na goodness