nowhereboy Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Something a little personal here folks but here goes.... About 5 month ago I started to rent my mams spare house with a friend of mine. We paid no bond, we paid no rent upfront and the agreed amount we paid her in rent didn't even cover her mortgage, she was doing me a favour because I was at a bit of a loose end and my finances were not in good order at the time. Within the first month I realized what a mistake I'd made by asking my mate to live with me. He was depressed, short tempered and drank constantly, a complete nightmare to live with. He made a few references to things he thought my mam should be taking care of because she was the "landlord", for example the spare room was full of my sisters things and he would moan that my mam should be removing those things. I did try to explain that we were not even paying all of the bills so we couldn't exactly expect to have the full rights a normal tenant would have. Things with my girlfriend have been getting more serious and she's asked me to move in with her, given that living with this guy was a complete nightmare I've decided to take the plunge and move in with her. My mam is allowing my mate to stay in the house until after new year even tho I'll not be paying my half of the rent, so bassicly she's paying half of my mates bills for him to allow him a month or so to sort out a new place to stay. I broke him the news not long ago and he's kicking off via text message, telling me it's unfair etc, he's actually being really snotty about it and it's obvious he is annoyed and thinks he is hard done by. I can see to a point it's a bit rubbish that after only 5 months I've decided to leave and to do it just before xmas isn't ideal but if he wasn't such a nightmare to live with this probably wouldn't have happened so quickly anyway. I'm finding it hard to keep my cool to be honest and I feel like booting him out now and telling him to **** off. I'm not sure this friendship is worth saving anyway. Am I being unreasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Not at all mate, you where doing him a favor, if he is so unappreciative of this and is not able to understand he is not much of a friend, just tell him hes had a good deal for a while and now unfortunately its over, he has signed no contract so he has no rights as a tenant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopedmark Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Be nice as you can But when the point of no return comes you will have to boot him out, he sounds as if he wants his cake and to eat it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2orry Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 If he had eny decency he would move out and let your mum rent to someone else that can afford what it's worth. Set a date and make sure he is packed and ready to leave when it comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Kick his ungrateful sad ass into the street and save your Mum the agro.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OllyB Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Has he got any rights, is there a tenancy agreement or anything? Try to see it from his point of view too, although he sounds like a royal pain in the butt he is probably panicking about what he's going to do so may be a bit unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimboy2 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Sounds like a pretty shi@ty friend to me. Do you and your mum a favour and kick him out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonk Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Has he got any rights, is there a tenancy agreement or anything? Try to see it from his point of view too, although he sounds like a royal pain in the butt he is probably panicking about what he's going to do so may be a bit unreasonable. And it is for this reason you need to tread softly. Is your mum for instance thinking of having some renovation work done that will make the house uninhabitable for a short while, no electricity or water? Perhaps he could move back in (or not!) when the work is done. Unfortunately you are going to have to be a bit ruthless. All the best with it but don't delude yourself it will end amicably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Sadly people do have a habit of becoming complete gits when it comes to money etc. sounds like the guy is in a bad place which makes it even harder for you. Basically if he doesn't have a tenancy then he'll have squatters rights. Either way you need to serve Section 8 and 21 notices. Then it's a bailiff to remove him from the property (assuming he refuses to quit at any point). Alternatively if he has no tenancy then you could go unofficial and literally sling him out. Personally I wouldn't recommend this route as you can get in trouble for it but it cane a very effective method in 'unofficial tenancy' situations. *waits for Comrade to arrive and explain why lines 1-6 are all incorrect* 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Sorry you need an IPO for squatter situation. section 8 and 21 only work if it's official Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 (edited) If he's paid the landlord (your mum) money for rent doesn't that an imply a contract where she has to serve an eviction notice, my family is going through a similar thing right now where we can't get rid of a tenant without serving an eviction notice.. edit: above.. Edited November 29, 2014 by mouthwash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 It's already well past the stage of it ending amicably unfortunately. He was already on very thin ice with me for many other reasons, he's damaged the kitchen benches and the floor, he has also came in drunk and left the front door wide open on two occasions. Not to mention the times he's kept me up by coming in drunk and making loads of noise, he's been really disrespectful to me and said things about my mam he shouldn't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have no problem with going in and removing him manualy to be honest, he wouldn't dare try to argue his case face to face. Hopefully it won't have to come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OllyB Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Be carefull and don't loose your temper, assault charges are easy to accidentally get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 It's already well past the stage of it ending amicably unfortunately. He was already on very thin ice with me for many other reasons, he's damaged the kitchen benches and the floor, he has also came in drunk and left the front door wide open on two occasions. Not to mention the times he's kept me up by coming in drunk and making loads of noise, he's been really disrespectful to me and said things about my mam he shouldn't have. In which case sling him on his hacienda. Obviously you can't go in there and belt him out of the house but telling him he's got to go and sitting there until he does (on whatever day you agree for him to go) will probably make him uncomfortable enough to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen@Clark Motorsport Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 In my opinion you don't need friends like that, he sounds seriously ungrateful and out of order with his behavior. I'd be telling him the truth about what he was like to live with and its best he move on! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comrade Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Sadly people do have a habit of becoming complete gits when it comes to money etc. sounds like the guy is in a bad place which makes it even harder for you. Basically if he doesn't have a tenancy then he'll have squatters rights. Either way you need to serve Section 8 and 21 notices. Then it's a bailiff to remove him from the property (assuming he refuses to quit at any point). Alternatively if he has no tenancy then you could go unofficial and literally sling him out. Personally I wouldn't recommend this route as you can get in trouble for it but it cane a very effective method in 'unofficial tenancy' situations. *waits for Comrade to arrive and explain why lines 1-6 are all incorrect* Here I am Lines 1-6 are all incorrect 1. Legally there isn't such thing as 'squatters rights'. The only right that might possibly be described as such is an adverse possession claim that a squatter might have after squatting for 10 years, but even that is severely gimped now. Otherwise, a squatter is a mere trespasser that has no rights whatsoever in relation to the property and can be removed using a possession order. 2. A bailiff can only enforce a court order that has to be obtained first. 3. You can't just go in and throw out a trespasser. Even if he doesn't have a tenancy or a licence to be there you still have to obtain a possession order. The new criminal offence that prohibits squatting on private land only applies when someone enters a property as a trespasser, if he originally had a permission to enter there is no offence and the police will not be interested. 4. In this case the guy is most certainly a tenant. Once you give someone exclusive possession of a property or even a part of the property and charge rent for it there is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. nowhereboy As I've already said, in your case there is most certainly a tenancy. If he is paying his rent then the only way you can legally get rid of him is by issuing Section 21 notice. This is a 2 month notice on expiry of which you can apply for a possession order, so if he refuses to leave you are looking at 4-5 months to get the property back. This notice has to meet strict requirements to be effective. If it is not effective the court will not give you a possession order. I have not studied this matter in enough detail to give a sufficiently accurate advice on how to issue the notice, so you might either take a look on this forum: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?3-Residential-Letting-Questions or seek legal advice. It is probably better for you to try to get him out informally, but you have to be careful in doing so. Making him feel alarmed or distressed is a criminal offence of harassment, making him appreciate immediate violence is a criminal offence of common assault. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So in practicality, what would happen if you wait until he goes out then change the locks? Obviously he'd need his stuff back which would be packed neatly in boxes for him in a safe place, but really what would happen at that point? This isn't an area I'm familiar with so I'm genuinely curious. Would he be able to call on the police for immediate assistance, or go straight to the courts, or what? In theory I'm sure he has legal recourse, but reality can be a bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comrade Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So in practicality, what would happen if you wait until he goes out then change the locks? Obviously he'd need his stuff back which would be packed neatly in boxes for him in a safe place, but really what would happen at that point? This isn't an area I'm familiar with so I'm genuinely curious. Would he be able to call on the police for immediate assistance, or go straight to the courts, or what? In theory I'm sure he has legal recourse, but reality can be a bit different. Assuming the guy is aware of his legal position: the guy goes to police, the police arrests OP for harassment, the guy gets back to the property, OP gets charged and gets a criminal record. The guy here has a right to live in the property because he has a tenancy. This tenancy arises automatically by the virtue of the Housing Act 1988 if there is an exclusive possession of the property and payment of rent. In this case there is a joint tenancy between OP's mum as a landlord and OP & his 'friend' as tenants. Everyone Property law is a bloody minefield. Before you do anything more that letting someone sleep on your couch for a night you better learn your legal position. The issue in the present case could easily have been avoided if OP's mum gave OP a formal tenancy and OP sublet his friend one of the rooms on a licence. The factual situation would be the same, but legal position would be very different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Kick his ungrateful sad ass into the street and save your Mum the agro.. Sounds like a pretty shi@ty friend to me. Do you and your mum a favour and kick him out. In my opinion you don't need friends like that, he sounds seriously ungrateful and out of order with his behavior. I'd be telling him the truth about what he was like to live with and its best he move on! ^^ All the above pretty much sum's it up for me. He obviously doesn't respect you as a person, let alone a friend otherwise he wouldn't have said things about your mother. Give him a months notice or whatever legally you have to and then get rid of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 nowhereboy As I've already said, in your case there is most certainly a tenancy. If he is paying his rent then the only way you can legally get rid of him is by issuing Section 21 notice. This is a 2 month notice on expiry of which you can apply for a possession order, so if he refuses to leave you are looking at 4-5 months to get the property back. This notice has to meet strict requirements to be effective. If it is not effective the court will not give you a possession order. If a polite request to leave is turned down then it seems to me the advice above should be enacted asap. Keep within the law as sadly in this country it is often the case that the 'innocent' party ends up getting punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 i'd chuck him out now. I wouldn't feel comfortable with someone in the same house as my mum with that attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) i'd chuck him out now. I wouldn't feel comfortable with someone in the same house as my mum with that attitude. They're not in the same house. Edited November 30, 2014 by KyleR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Thanks for the input folks! An update on the situation, I decided to go round the house to have a chat, he was already packing his bags. He said I have upset him by not considering his feelings in the situation. I explained regardless of his feelings I was moving on with my life and moving in with my girlfreind so there was nothing i could do and he shouldn't take it personally. I ended up feeling sorry for him and gave him half of this months rent back as he had paid up until dec 15th. The last few weeks have been a bit of a nightmare to be honest I can't wait until everything settles down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 If he'd wanted something more set in stone he should've either asked for it, or looked elsewhere for somewhere to live. Bloody wimp, he's going to struggle in life with an attitude like that. I am, however, most disappointed in this new update. I was hoping for fisticuffs, police chases and headlines at 9! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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