LRF4N Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Everyone knows not to do that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdg32 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Do they? Perhaps not until it happens to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Its very dangerous to own a car when you're a complete cretin..My neighbour last Winter left his Merc on his driveway warming the engine, he went in to get an ice scraper when he came back out some "spotty scrote" was ragging it down the road..!! :scare: Fixed that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Just drive gently keeping revs low fora while until you're up to temp. Basic mechanical sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg tl Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Its very dangerous to leave your car to warm up..My neighbour last Winter left his Merc on his driveway warming the engine, he went in to get an ice scraper when he came back out some "spotty scrote" was ragging it down the road..!! :scare: Is that why you styled your car like that? To minimise the "spotty scrote" theory whilst marmite warm up!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Not like it takes long for a Zed to warm up anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I remember that oil engineer bloke Cesar saying that an engine is fully protected by the oil within about 10 seconds of starting at flat out RPM......its the other components that need to warm up He wrote a really good piece on it but I reckon its been lost over the annals of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Its very dangerous to leave your car to warm up..My neighbour last Winter left his Merc on his driveway warming the engine, he went in to get an ice scraper when he came back out some "spotty scrote" was ragging it down the road..!! :scare: Is that why you styled your car like that? To minimise the "spotty scrote" theory whilst marmite warm up!!?? ......I can see this ending well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) Its very dangerous to leave your car to warm up..My neighbour last Winter left his Merc on his driveway warming the engine, he went in to get an ice scraper when he came back out some "spotty scrote" was ragging it down the road..!! :scare: Is that why you styled your car like that? To minimise the "spotty scrote" theory whilst marmite warm up!!?? If you bothered to read the build thread of Marmite, you would realise that I DID not style Marmite but Builder 49 a member on here did, and I'm glad he sold it to me and not to a Stealer, :lol: :scare: . Edited November 16, 2013 by WhackyWill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Warm up is all about oil and stress, the most stress on any four stroke engine is on the valve train at idle, so leaving an engine to warm up is only going to cause accelerated wear to these component's, that why nearly all manufactures recommend starting and driving the car, obviously common sense is required on how its driven, Engines back in the 50 to the 80s where recommended to warm up before being driven, but that has a lot to do with oils, todays oils are far superior, and also engine design and material's are far better, so expansion rates of metals within the engine are pre calculated and clearances are adjusted to suite, its also about emissions now, so that's also a consideration,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Warm up is all about oil and stress, the most stress on any four stroke engine is on the valve train at idle, so leaving an engine to warm up is only going to cause accelerated wear to these component's, that why nearly all manufactures recommend starting and driving the car, obviously common sense is required on how its driven, Engines back in the 50 to the 80s where recommended to warm up before being driven, but that has a lot to do with oils, todays oils are far superior, and also engine design and material's are far better, so expansion rates of metals within the engine are pre calculated and clearances are adjusted to suite, its also about emissions now, so that's also a consideration,. I'm sure you posted a while back that driving in a high gear taxes the valve train more. I would like to know a little more as you seem to know your stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Its very dangerous to leave your car to warm up..My neighbour last Winter left his Merc on his driveway warming the engine, he went in to get an ice scraper when he came back out some "spotty scrote" was ragging it down the road..!! :scare: Is that why you styled your car like that? To minimise the "spotty scrote" theory whilst marmite warm up!!?? If you bothered to read the build thread of Marmite, you would realise that I DID not style Marmite but Builder 49 a member on here did, and I'm glad he sold it to me and not to a Stealer, :lol: :scare: . Ouchy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I remember that oil engineer bloke Cesar saying that an engine is fully protected by the oil within about 10 seconds of starting at flat out RPM......its the other components that need to warm up He wrote a really good piece on it but I reckon its been lost over the annals of time Got to love a bit of anal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Most cars here have remote start, and all that I have seen do so for 16 minutes. Doors stay locked so scroats can't nick it. But when it's -30C+ I guess it stops you freezing to the seat and the steering wheel when you get in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 In canada in the colder parts they have plug in oil and coolant heaters too I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Just to draw a line under this thread about leaving a Zed running, I never had a problem when dogging in any weather...... Sent from the golf club... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmr1980 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Warm up is all about oil and stress, the most stress on any four stroke engine is on the valve train at idle, so leaving an engine to warm up is only going to cause accelerated wear to these component's, that why nearly all manufactures recommend starting and driving the car, obviously common sense is required on how its driven, Engines back in the 50 to the 80s where recommended to warm up before being driven, but that has a lot to do with oils, todays oils are far superior, and also engine design and material's are far better, so expansion rates of metals within the engine are pre calculated and clearances are adjusted to suite, its also about emissions now, so that's also a consideration,. I'm sure you posted a while back that driving in a high gear taxes the valve train more. I would like to know a little more as you seem to know your stuff Never would have said that fella, stress on valve train reduces as the RPM rises, its the old reciprocal mass thing, the slower it moves the more force is required to move it, and as the valve train is moving at half the engine RPM...... Its not that an engine left to idle on a regular basis is going to fail, its just going to show considerable more valve train wear than an engine that's not, and likely need to have valve clearance's adjusted/shimmed more frequently, and the cam belt/chain will also require more frequent replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bems Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I start her up and drive off. I go by oil temp and oil pressure before I give her any beans. My X3 has twin turbos and it states in the manual you are better driving as soon as you start the car to get the oil temp up as soon as you can without stressing the engine/turbos. The stop/start system also deactivates for the first five minutes for this reason too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagz Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Let it warm up for 'at least 30 seconds' according to the manual. I do this and during that 30 seconds the revs drop in stages from 2000 to 1000, then I set off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Warm up is all about oil and stress, the most stress on any four stroke engine is on the valve train at idle, so leaving an engine to warm up is only going to cause accelerated wear to these component's, that why nearly all manufactures recommend starting and driving the car, obviously common sense is required on how its driven, Engines back in the 50 to the 80s where recommended to warm up before being driven, but that has a lot to do with oils, todays oils are far superior, and also engine design and material's are far better, so expansion rates of metals within the engine are pre calculated and clearances are adjusted to suite, its also about emissions now, so that's also a consideration,. I'm sure you posted a while back that driving in a high gear taxes the valve train more. I would like to know a little more as you seem to know your stuff Never would have said that fella, stress on valve train reduces as the RPM rises, its the old reciprocal mass thing, the slower it moves the more force is required to move it, and as the valve train is moving at half the engine RPM...... Its not that an engine left to idle on a regular basis is going to fail, its just going to show considerable more valve train wear than an engine that's not, and likely need to have valve clearance's adjusted/shimmed more frequently, and the cam belt/chain will also require more frequent replacement. Fair enough. Must have got it wrong. I read up do you think this person was wrong? "Are any of you aware that an engine is under more strain at lower RPMs and particularly at idle, the whole valve train is under the most strain at idle and low RPM. If you then add the drive train into the equation, and then add in the inertial shock resulting from continually making small throttle adjustments to a 1.5 ton brick thats attached, not to mention the effects on fuel consumption." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 At idle? No. There is zero load on the engine, so it's the least-stressed time. Low RPM? Possibly. Cruising along at 70mph in 6th in something with a big V8 will give you an RPM of around 1500rp which most would consider low, but is by design. No issues there at all. However, if you're trying to pull hard from that kind of RPM in a high gear then yes, that's the worst possible thing to do as it'll be severely straining the drivetrain. It also sounds and feel horrible, which is why no-one really does it (think 30mph in 6th in the Zed: Doable, but if you try and accelerate the car hates it!). My 911 will be in 7th by 45mph, but if you try and accelerate to any degree in auto mode it'll drop a couple of gears to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs2000 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 So much bad advice here, it hurts. Do NOT leave the car to warm up. Start engine and move away promptly. What you should be doing then is limiting yourself to about half revs until engine oil (not coolant) is warm, so about 10-15 mins before allowing yourself hard throttle and rev-range use. All modern (2000+) vehicles should be driven like this. Leaving a car to idle creates hot spots and can lead to damage long term. Really? Learn something new I guess. When the temp gets really cold I always sit and wait for the coolant temperature to reach normal levels before I drive away, fan doesn't have time to kick in as its still so cold. I do have my shift indicator set at 3,500RPM however so im usually shifting before/at this point anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think there is a lot of confusion here on engine loading while moving, actually turning the wheels, and just during idle, Of course there is going to be more stress on the engine during driving the wheels, and its very varied, However we where discussing warm up and leaving the engine idling in particular, driving the car is adding dynamic stress to the engine which it was after all designed for, and if driven when cold with common sense, its not going to be a problem, after all thats what the gear box is for. The general consensus is that as far as engine wear is concerned, the first few seconds when started from cold, and hot to a slightly smaller degree is when the most engine wear takes place, due to zero to low oil pressure, the next is during idle on the valve train as said, the next factor is oil, but that's a whole separate subject. Adding a little disclaimer here for the pedants, there are other danger areas of engine wear that are also not related to this thread, which has I think run its course, as there are always going to be differing opinions as to which practice is the best option, either way I doubt anyone is going to see a big difference as most of the time we don't keep our cars long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think 90% definitely went flat out of the Greyfisher pub on Sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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