JetSet Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The government only spend about 12% of the money they raise from taxing the motorist on roads but are now looking at getting private companies to build toll roads...would you use them or has the experience of The M6 toll road put off private companies? Should we be looking at other options like getting as much freight onto the railways as possible to alleviate some of the pressure on roads like The M1/M6/M25? For example the 2 main railway lines around here have about 10 freight movements a week between them while the main route into Wales carries thousands of trucks a day. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17423693 Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 We have a handful of toll roads over this end of the pond. One is heavily used, having cost 100's of millions of dollars to build, and the toll doesn't cover cost of the administration or the build cost, and is a laughing stock basically and isn't well organised. It's works via automatic payment, toll booth (which is often down) or via phone. The only upside is it's bypassed a dangerous bit of road that's very extremely steep, keeping the very heavy vehicles off most of the time as they now have the alternate route. One other is a total joke due to the lack of use. It connects two cities, and is only about $1 each way, but cuts off a big distance, but people don't use it much. Have used both, mainly due to it saves time. But like most if the tolling gets to expensive people will revert to using the other routes. We have one other new bit of motorway, before it officially opened the powers that be were talking about $8 each way to use, everyone really jumped up and down and it's free to use. To put this all into perspective, more than 50% of the price of petrol here is tax and the price of vehicle registration has increased dramatically in the last two years. Always interested in what happens over there, as they model things here using what's happening in larger populations. Usually the most wasteful and unnecessary and proven not to work will be a go. Does that sound familiar?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Another expense for the motorist. Would I use them......NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Assuming they were kept in a decent state, and had ANPR on them so you didn't have to stop and fish around for change or a card, then I'm all for them. I always use the M6 Toll when heading out that way, and you only need look at France or the US to see how toll roads can be done properly. Since they'll be something that you don't have to use if you don't want to, I can't see any issues with this plan at all. Yes, it will need careful overseeing to ensure it doesn't end up like Bronzee's examples, but it doesn't automatically have to end in disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I use the M6 toll when I'm in that neck of the woods, but I doubt I would if it was on a regular basis as the cost would be likely to outweigh the benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke0549 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I was coming back from Bolton last week after picking up my zed and had the chance to go on the m6 toll, but I didn't. At £5.50 it's a joke. I'ld rather go the normal way and put £5.50 worth of fuel in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I use the m6 toll when heading south. Love it as it cuts out a very big part of a miserable road, is the normal m6. Expensive in the van though. I would definately use toll roads if it means nice smooth Tarmac and less traffic congestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If we actually started handing out points and eventual bans for people who cant keep left on our motorways, things would improve a lot anyway. Restrict HGVs to the first two lanes of the new four lane carriageways. Also contract companies to do an actual job on the roads rather than a job where they get paid by the day or get a "bonus" if they bring it in on time. They don't care about the bonus, they've already priced that into the job anyway and just sponge up the daily rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If we actually started handing out points and eventual bans for people who cant keep left on our motorways, things would improve a lot anyway. Restrict HGVs to the first two lanes of the new four lane carriageways. Also contract companies to do an actual job on the roads rather than a job where they get paid by the day or get a "bonus" if they bring it in on time. They don't care about the bonus, they've already priced that into the job anyway and just sponge up the daily rate. +1, middle laning that become mobile roadblocks are causing huge problems. Nothing wrong with the current system in theory, just that its crumbling and people do not use it correctly. The French toll system is okay, to a point. I found when using it regularly when living there really there was no choice but to use it, I know our government is meant to be offer alternatives, but wont be long before the only alternatives are tolled once they get the populus used to the idea. It might be an old wives tale, but the Dartford Tunnel when it was built was meant to be tolled until it was paid for...decades later and many times paid for, it is still tolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If we actually started handing out points and eventual bans for people who cant keep left on our motorways, things would improve a lot anyway. Restrict HGVs to the first two lanes of the new four lane carriageways. +1,000,000 on the middle lane driver In Berlin trucks are not allowed to overtake in rush hour. Bring that here and we shall all save 1 hr of our lives. I was driving down the A34 towards Newbury from Oxford. A police car was following me and had done so for about 30 mins. Both driving just a smidging over the speed limit. We come across 3 trucks on a dual carriageway. Truck 3 overtakes truck 2 and 1. Truck 2 (now at the back) wants to overtake truck 1 (now in the middle), oh and sod it he now wants to overtake the other truck. No word of a lie, this must have taken 10-15mins and about 10 mile of road. Now the copper didn't batter and eyelid. All 3 trucks were doing the same speed bar 1 or 2 mile an hour. What was the point of their actions, they're all limited by speed for god sake, just drive and stop blocking UK Highways you pillocks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is mad, I am sure they do it on purpose just to annoy people. I mean if a lorry is doing 60mph and going a fraction faster than another lorry and you overtake and 1 hour later you pull over, that lorry you overtook will pass you about 30 seconds later, moronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmck13 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't believe the Government will do anything that will be beneficial to a driver after all we are a major contributor in taxes. Sounds like the fourth greatest lie in the world . Just call me old Mr Cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 i have no issue with toll roads, but if they do bring it in, then they should reduce the RFL. I think the M6 toll is brilliant, bypass birmingham brilliantly, the only thing they forgot to build was the 30ft wall with barb wire on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 +1,000,000 on the middle lane driver In Berlin trucks are not allowed to overtake in rush hour. Bring that here and we shall all save 1 hr of our lives. I was driving down the A34 towards Newbury from Oxford. A police car was following me and had done so for about 30 mins. Both driving just a smidging over the speed limit. We come across 3 trucks on a dual carriageway. Truck 3 overtakes truck 2 and 1. Truck 2 (now at the back) wants to overtake truck 1 (now in the middle), oh and sod it he now wants to overtake the other truck. No word of a lie, this must have taken 10-15mins and about 10 mile of road. Now the copper didn't batter and eyelid. All 3 trucks were doing the same speed bar 1 or 2 mile an hour. What was the point of their actions, they're all limited by speed for god sake, just drive and stop blocking UK Highways you pillocks!! love the use of pillocks, havent heard that for ages.hahahaha i would use the toll roads if it benefited the route. like the hindhead tunnel, (although not tolled) is a great improvement to the road. the only problem is, is there that much space to build new tolled roads that would greatly decrease the journey time? would it benefit us that much. dont really see the point of tolling a stretch of the M1 or the M40 for instance, as its a fairly direct route to where people want to go. potentially just a way of making money for the Govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 They should build a toll-based ring road around the M25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 potentially just a way of making money for the Govt. Is that not the whole idea, and not a bad one at that? The country is skint, this makes money for the coffers instead of cuts or taxes, and will also provide work for a good few people. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am it's a good idea. The only downside is that the country is already too small and full of roads, and that they'll only leave the speed limit at 70mph on these lovely clear roads anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 They should build a toll-based ring road around the M25 and only allow people with 3L and above cars to go on it, with no speed limits. the longest circular track in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 potentially just a way of making money for the Govt. Is that not the whole idea, and not a bad one at that? The country is skint, this makes money for the coffers instead of cuts or taxes, and will also provide work for a good few people. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am it's a good idea. The only downside is that the country is already too small and full of roads, and that they'll only leave the speed limit at 70mph on these lovely clear roads anyway. but i wont be spent effectively, no new roads or making things safer. it'll be a hike in petrol again and have to pay for the tolls too, with no benefit for the motorist. it'll just be the companies that run the roads that get rich!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 They should build a toll-based ring road around the M25 and only allow people with 3L and above cars to go on it, with no speed limits. the longest circular track in the world. I'd be more than happy with that arrangement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well thats decided then! The M25a. Awesome. But yeah, understand why they are thinking it in that people are living longer, population is growing, cars are lasting longer and are more affordable to buy - it all leads to a road network already straining under the weight getting worse. The money has to come from somewhere. My only concern is how the privatisation of it will work, corner cutting, issues with safety, huge chunks of money going to top bosses instead of being spent on the network etc - all sounds a little bit like the rail system which I think most will agree is overpriced and under performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 My only concern is how the privatisation of it will work, corner cutting, issues with safety, huge chunks of money going to top bosses instead of being spent on the network etc - all sounds a little bit like the rail system which I think most will agree is overpriced and under performs. indeed +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'd pay to use toll roads or even a pay as you drive scheme, provided this was instead of and not on top of the existing duty. A CO2/km scaled pay as you drive system is the only fair way of taxation... Currently a Toyota Prius doing 30k a year will be charged £0 tax, yet will stick 4200kg of CO2 into the atmosphere. A Zed doing 3k a year, will be charged £460 tax, yet only put out 1300kg of CO2. Obviously, this system wouldn't be good for Zed owners who do 30k a year! A just a quick defence of lorry drivers (Of which I am neither one or particular fan of), but they are very strictly limited to the amount of time they can spend on the road before having to stop. Even a few miles an hour can make a huge difference... Although I completely agree at how annoying it is when they're taking up 2 out of 3 lanes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrzed Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 But of course on a couple of conditions: Scrap Road Tax Scrap Insurance Tax Abolish Speed Cameras No Public Traffic Law Enforcement On So Called Private Roads No Average Speed Cameras No Fixed Speed Cameras Increased Min & Max Speed Limits Reduction In Insurance Tax So Called Levied For The Public Road Use Contingent Why not issue some demands of our own, afterall were the poor sods who are going to be paying for big brother to stake a claim on our whereabouts and empty our pockets while there at it and no doubt share the information with the public sector. Do I Sound Bitter......Well poor motorist gets it again, what they whisper about today will become everyday life in three to five years, subliminal conditioning, by the time it comes to fruition you have already subcontiously capitulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 just a quick defence of lorry drivers (Of which I am neither one or particular fan of), but they are very strictly limited to the amount of time they can spend on the road before having to stop. Even a few miles an hour can make a huge difference... Although I completely agree at how annoying it is when they're taking up 2 out of 3 lanes! Nah, I think they do it for the devilment - annoying other road users whilst trying to work out how to murder the next prostitute Actually I come from a family of hauliers (I'm not a murderer!!) so have lots of sympathy for long distance drivers. It may be that 10 miles back the poor fella was stuck at 40mph behind the lorry in front on a hill, and is now seizing the slim window of opportunity to overtake. I drove a van during uni holidays and it wasn't much fun. Imagine watching the rest of the world driving around carefree while are limited to a certain speed and needing to be at pick-ups / drop-offs in time with all the problems of traffic on our roads - it wasn't for me. An empty flat-bed Mercedes 310D Sprinter does give a good insight into rear wheel driving though The biggest problem as already mentioned are the twunts who insist on sitting in the middle or outside lane with nothing on the lane inside. I usually make a point of returning swiftly the the inside lane after overtaking them. Occasionally they get the point and pull in - more often than not they just sit there, clueless or pig-headed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I use an enforced toll road (bridge) every single day of the week Not only have then gone back on their so called promise to get rid of the toll once the bridge was paid for butthere are rumours of putting it up further to pay for a new bridge to ease the burden. What really winds me up are the queues, I don't see why they can't put ANPR cameras on there and if you are a muppet and go through it by mistake without registering then you get charged a £5.... I am fed up with paying for a dart-tag and then sitting behind some ***** who doesn't have one and doesn't have any change either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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