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"relay crime"


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The technology behind these thefts were published all the way back in 2011, but no manfactures took any action/preventative changes. These thefts have been going for a while, and will only increase as cost of the equipment falls.

 

Latest move is now to having low powered Bluetooth keys that send out a more secure signal.

 

Easiest way to prevent is to keys in a metal box to block the signals.

 

http://www.syssec.ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/infk/inst-infsec/system-security-group-dam/research/spot/332.pdf

Edited by gangzoom
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I Constantly worry about this owning a Highly Modified Focus ST, parked slap bang in the middle of a council estate, one of the most stolen cars too apparently. 

 

I go as far as parking on a tiny bit of land in the front garden and blocking my Car in with my partners Type R. The Mrs isn't keen on this and feels it draws more attention to the house, I used to hide the cars keys upstairs too but due to having a child in the house I don't bother anymore, just leave them visible downstairs.  

 

 

 

 

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I wonder if the victims can claim the manufacturer?? To me, this is a manufacturer's issue as their current system can be breached easily. I won't buy a vehicle that I know I will need to spend more on security because of relay crime.  I wonder what the insurance company's policy on this? 'We are not paying out as this is a manufacturer's design flaw' Pretty sure the next time we fill up the questionnaire, we'll be ask if vehicle has keyless entry/start fitted.

Edited by veeg33
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18 hours ago, nowhereboy said:

I Constantly worry about this owning a Highly Modified Focus ST, parked slap bang in the middle of a council estate, one of the most stolen cars too apparently. 

 

I go as far as parking on a tiny bit of land in the front garden and blocking my Car in with my partners Type R. The Mrs isn't keen on this and feels it draws more attention to the house, I used to hide the cars keys upstairs too but due to having a child in the house I don't bother anymore, just leave them visible downstairs.  

 

Am really glad we now have a usable garage, as the X is draws more attention than anything else I've ever owned combined.

 

Just a shame you cannot feel safe enjoying owning something you worked hard for.

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14 hours ago, veeg33 said:

I wonder if the victims can claim the manufacturer?? To me, this is a manufacturer's issue as their current system can be breached easily.

 

Tesla released a software update recently that gave the option to disable keyless entry. The thing is once your use to just walking up to the car and opening the door, adding in an addtional step of pressing a key to unlock is a real pain. I disabled it for a few days but have turned is back on.

 

There is no easy solution around relay crime unless you introduce some kind of time stamp into the signal, but than your talking about a delay thats in nanoseconds which am not sure is even possible to detect with current tech.

 

The balance between convince versus security is hard to get right. I can actually unlock/start my car from my phone without needing any key, my phone also has the banking app, email access, address details etc pretty much all my personal info, and its all only a keycode lock away. As the FBI showed last year breaking through security locks on phones is also very doable regardless of what manfactures say.

Edited by gangzoom
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1 hour ago, gangzoom said:

 

The thing is once your use to just walking up to the car and opening the door, adding in an addtional step of pressing a key to unlock is a real pain.

 

 

This is by far the most ridiculous thing you’ve ever said. And that is saying something!

 

The idea that having to press a button to be able to get into a machine that you have to have to multitask to use, let alone to use safely, is too much is just utterly asinine.

Edited by ilogikal1
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2 hours ago, gangzoom said:

 

Tesla released a software update recently that gave the option to disable keyless entry. The thing is once your use to just walking up to the car and opening the door, adding in an addtional step of pressing a key to unlock is a real pain. I disabled it for a few days but have turned is back on.

 

There is no easy solution around relay crime unless you introduce some kind of time stamp into the signal, but than your talking about a delay thats in nanoseconds which am not sure is even possible to detect with current tech.

 

The balance between convince versus security is hard to get right. I can actually unlock/start my car from my phone without needing any key, my phone also has the banking app, email access, address details etc pretty much all my personal info, and its all only a keycode lock away. As the FBI showed last year breaking through security locks on phones is also very doable regardless of what manfactures say.

I agree with ilogikal1 ^^^ A simple press on the key to unlock can only be a pain if both hands are occupied with child/shopping/etc, i can see this being useful in these occasion. If you hands are just dangling around there before you enter your vehicle, why not give it a press to avoid your car being stolen? Knowing that you can prevent a car theft, can this be used against you when you make a claim? 'I disabled this feature as I can't be asked to press a button to unlock my car, hence left it as it is and I'm now a victim of relay crime'. If it involves putting keys in the keyhole to avoid my car being stolen, I'll do it!! Technologies is supposed to make life easier, not lazier :scare: 

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If your hands are full of children/shopping/etc, how can we be expected to use a door handle to open a car door? Surely all cars should come with self opening doors upon sensing movement within, say, 3 feet of the car. Y'know, because opening your own door is such a pain and all.

 

 

;)

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For someone who allegedly loves cars, he sure is trying his best to get away from driving: First no engine, then it’ll be the autopilot, now he doesn’t even want to touch it... ;) 

 

I’ve never worried about my cars getting nicked. If someone really wants it they’ll find a way to take it, so aside from locking it to deter the opportunist I do nothing else. Keys are left downstairs so if someone breaks in they can get them without physically threatening me or Jo. I’ve no interest in keyless entry stuff either, extra cost for zero benefit. 

 

Besides, that’s what insurance is for. 

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Doesn't it take like 1hr to enable ludicrous mode......(now THAT is a pain!)  ha ha I just press the bloody loud pedal and **** all over this "warm the batteries BS".

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ekona said:

 

I’ve never worried about my cars getting nicked. If someone really wants it they’ll find a way to take it, so aside from locking it to deter the opportunist I do nothing else.

 

Actually I agree with this. If someone wants to steal the car they will do it. If they cannot get in one way they will simply find another.

 

The keyless relay attacks are been done by organised gangs whom am sure will have no issues breaking into the house if they really want the car. 

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2 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

If your hands are full of children/shopping/etc, how can we be expected to use a door handle to open a car door? Surely all cars should come with self opening doors upon sensing movement within, say, 3 feet of the car. Y'know, because opening your own door is such a pain and all.

 

 

;)

 

Totally off topic but 100% agree ;)

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On 29/11/2017 at 15:08, gangzoom said:

 

Actually I agree with this. If someone wants to steal the car they will do it. If they cannot get in one way they will simply find another.

 

The keyless relay attacks are been done by organised gangs whom am sure will have no issues breaking into the house if they really want the car. 

Totally agree , I'd rather someone took my car off my drive without either battering me or my family to get the keys 

 

I like keyless wouldnt want to be without it 

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