14N Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hi All, I've received a £100 parking 'charge' for exceeding a 2 hour stay limit at the Welcome Break Michael Wood Services on the M5 - I wasn't even aware there was a length of stay limit. As you can imagine, I'm not exactly overjoyed Apparently there are signs informing motorists of this fact and I'm sure there are, but it was dark, pee'ing with rain and I never even considered a maximum stay. All the 'Tiredness Can Kill - Take a Break' signs and advertising campaigns do not tell you to take a break, as long as it's less than 120 minutes, otherwise it'll cost you £££ It's been issued by 'Parking Eye', who I gather are a well known (for similar reasons) car park management company for car parks on private land such as this. I know there is a lot of hearsay regarding what you should/should not, could/could not do regarding such 'charges', but does anyone have any 'real' experience with a charge such as this or can offer meaningful advice? Thanks in advance guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 How long were you there for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 In all likelihood, you'll have to pay. I went to POPLA with one last year as I could prove that the signage wasn't correct, but in a place like that and knowing PE I very much doubt they've got anything wrong. However, no harm in checking that the sign is visible and that the lettering is correct and reasonable, as that's the only get out you have. Please ignore anyone who tells you to ignore it, as they're very much wrong and since the Beavis judgement PE are actively taking people to court as they know they've got a slam dunk case now. Personally, I'd pay up and move on. Life is too short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppoJeff Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Yeah you are likely going to have to pay it. If you were in Scotland though you would get away with it as the parking eyes have no leg to stand on with the laws up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I got one once. I ignored the 4 letters they sent and never heard from them again. So long as it's not the council or police who ticket you they can't do much. Even if they did take it to court, which is highly unlikely for £100, they'd have to prove that you being there for more than 2 hours caused them loss of business equal to or greater than the charge, basically, if there was more than one empty space in the car park after the 2 hours were up, they didn't lose business... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne370Z Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I seem to remember reading recently that a recent change in the law means they cannot enforce a fine/charge for the first 10mins of any overstay. (think it was 10 mins). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If its not council, or police, wipe your arse with it and bin it. i had about 7 letter warnings etc.. they even used bold lettering, was so scary.... haha, the gave up in the end. it will cost them much more than the fine to take you to court etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne370Z Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 . it will cost them much more than the fine to take you to court etc.. But not if they win the case and the judge awards them the costs too which you then have to also pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Like I said, ignore this They ARE actively pursuing people now after the Beavis judgement, and they have a lovely log of outstanding things to get through if the ticket was issued after the law changed to make the RK responsible for the fine. Not only will you have to pay the fine, but you will also have to pay their court costs too. It's a really, really silly thing just to ignore these now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 What was the Beavis judgement?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Like I said, ignore this They ARE actively pursuing people now after the Beavis judgement, and they have a lovely log of outstanding things to get through if the ticket was issued after the law changed to make the RK responsible for the fine. Not only will you have to pay the fine, but you will also have to pay their court costs too. It's a really, really silly thing just to ignore these now. You're paying my court costs if I lose my parking fine battle Edited February 24, 2016 by grundy225 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Oh wow, just read up on it, the beavis judgement basically says it's not a penalty, it's a legitimate charge for the administration of you being there too long and the profit they're entitled to on top of the administration costs. It used to be that it had to be proportionate to the business lost as a result of you being there, not anymore! Pay it and move on is now the best way unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 What was the Beavis judgement?? Basically, that he was the "Great Cornholio", that he came from lake Titicaca and needed TP for his "bunghole". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You're paying my court costs if I lose my parking fine battle IANAL :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If its not council, or police, wipe your arse with it and bin it. Your so poetic Bradders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydZee Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) It sounds a massive risk for the sake of £100 I'd just grit my teeth, pay it and get over it Edited February 24, 2016 by lloydshaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritchard Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I had one recently from a general parking attendant thingy watsit. there was something in the lineage on the tiket which meant i could phone up and say ''yea im not paying this'' which i did, which came from advice from a friend. for the life of me i cant remember what it was, but it was on the lines of ''Penalty Fare' vs 'Penalty Notice', one is enforeced by council / police and you must pay. the other is enforced by a private company and so becomes a dispute. with mine i phoned them up the day i got a sticky yellow tab on my windscreen and asked for evidence. they provided it 3 days later. at which point i had received said advice, so i phoned up and said im not payng. ''because i dont want to'', they gave some threats on the phoe, but that was that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritchard Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 BINGO - Question number 2 here, It was Penalty vs Parking http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/10995722/Do-you-have-to-pay-car-park-fines.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I had one recently from a general parking attendant thingy watsit. there was something in the lineage on the tiket which meant i could phone up and say ''yea im not paying this'' which i did, which came from advice from a friend. for the life of me i cant remember what it was, but it was on the lines of ''Penalty Fare' vs 'Penalty Notice', one is enforeced by council / police and you must pay. the other is enforced by a private company and so becomes a dispute. with mine i phoned them up the day i got a sticky yellow tab on my windscreen and asked for evidence. they provided it 3 days later. at which point i had received said advice, so i phoned up and said im not payng. ''because i dont want to'', they gave some threats on the phoe, but that was that. read the above, that's now changed. They have successfully sued now and are preceding to for £85 fines. The official verdict was only made in November, so it's new. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veeg33 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 As you said, Highways England (formally known as Highways Agency) are encouraging drivers to take a break and now you are getting a fine for taking a long break (2hrs plus).......surely you can file a complaint to protest this (info@highwaysengland.co.uk)? Worth checking the signage etc as Ekona said, are they visible where you have parked and visible when you enter the building. Having said all that, with all that effort needed.......one might just choose to pay and forget about it, but others might fight until the end..... Storyline: You got a little bit tired whilst driving (after 3 hours non-stop), stopped at the break area and parked next to a truck, no visible signage (dark and raining) saying 2 hrs limit, you dose off, woke up and drove off.....next thing you know, you got a fine. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 When I was issued with a similar fine from Lidl I did a lot of reading, and the general consensus is don't pay, as they are a private parking company and have to prove their case, which entails you being in no doubt about the regulations of the parking, so the signs have to be big enough and clearly displayed, which isn't as easy as you might think. The other part is the cost of taking you to court, they have to be very sure they can win otherwise they pay all the costs, in general they rely on scare tactics in the hope most people will cough up, in my case I simply wrote to the CEO of Lidl complaining about the fact that I was a regular customer and had only gone over by 10 mins, and it went away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 When I was issued with a similar fine from Lidl I did a lot of reading, and the general consensus is don't pay, as they are a private parking company and have to prove their case, which entails you being in no doubt about the regulations of the parking, so the signs have to be big enough and clearly displayed, which isn't as easy as you might think. The other part is the cost of taking you to court, they have to be very sure they can win otherwise they pay all the costs, in general they rely on scare tactics in the hope most people will cough up, in my case I simply wrote to the CEO of Lidl complaining about the fact that I was a regular customer and had only gone over by 10 mins, and it went away. Just as a side note, writing letters to CEOs is incredibly powerful - I bought some cricket tickets for my parents to watch England Australia for their 40th wedding anniversary, they love cricket and had never had the chance to see Eng Aus. Turned out England played a hugely weakened side and were hammered so I wrote to the then CEO of English Cricket saying that they didnt see their heroes and saw England getting thumped in a game they clearly couldnt win. It was also down in Southampton so they had to stay in a hotel which cost money etc. and I felt it really took away from the experience. Two weeks later a genuine signed team photo (i.e. not a print) arrived in the post from the full England squad along with a letter from the CEO personally apologising, explaining the reasons for team selection along with a wedding anniversary gift from the England cricket team! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudman Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can cite frustration of contract as a means to refuse to pay post Beavis. Example is you are feeling ill and are unable to leave the car park. That's a valid defence so if you remained in the car for the majority of the duration as they have more than likely got the car park on camera then try it. If it was 2 hours in Starbucks then probably skating on thin ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritchard Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 im confused, why is everyone talking about Beavis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can cite frustration of contract as a means to refuse to pay post Beavis. Example is you are feeling ill and are unable to leave the car park. That's a valid defence so if you remained in the car for the majority of the duration as they have more than likely got the car park on camera then try it. If it was 2 hours in Starbucks then probably skating on thin ice. They use ANPR cameras at the entry/exit. But if you stopped for health reasons that went over 2 hours........... im confused, why is everyone talking about Beavis? This might help as we wouldn't want our one and only Beavis to get mixed up with this now would we http://www.honestjoh...king-penalties/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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