RIP 911

[Ekona]

991.2 Carrera and Carrera S launched (PH link)

 

3L turbo engines only in the production series cars from now on, with only the GT3 keeping an NA engine. I know why they've done it, and tbh in their shoes I'd probably have done the same, but this is a sad moment in motoring history. One of the finest things in life is a Porker flat-six engine, right up there with a Honda VTEC and a Ferrari V8 in terms of classic engines that define the driver as much as the car. Strap turbos to it and you may make it quicker, but do you make it better? No, I don't think you do. You lose as much as you gain.

 

Is the new CTR faster than the old? Yup, but you know you really want to be driving the screamer engine instead. Does the 488 now compete evenly with the 650S? Yes, but that 4.5L V8 in the 458 was just about the pinnacle of high-revving NA V8s.

 

 

There's not really any doubt it'll be an amazing car, and those stats are borderline bonkers (8.2secs to 100MPH with 36MPG!), but this is the first new 911 I have pretty much no interest in. And those new engine slats are ugly as hell: No other lines flow from top to bottom, they're all from side to side. Silly change for the sake of change.

 

 

So RIP to the proper 911 with a gorgeous NA engine, and welcome to the era of bonkers quick base 911s. Faster, but not always better.

[Adrian@TORQEN]

WOW, it looks so different from the other Porsches, must be because it's a facelift model! NOT!!

Edited September 7, 2015 by octet@TORQEN

[Ekona]

Wow I've like never heard that joke before

[Ekona]

Also, why mess with something that looks stunning?

 

I'm more disappointed with the power train than I am with the looks (rear lights are nice, I hate those front four LED things though).

[rabbitstew]

I was reading about this earlier. Its a shame but just the way things go I guess - same as M3 / M5 etc... One thing they did say though is that they may still do NA limited edition cars in the future, which I expect they still will do if they can get them through the emissions etc. as they will probably go the same way as the GT3 / RS etc.

 

It will be interesting to see what effect it has on the prices of 911`s. If all 911`s are now turbo`d (okay different turbo to the 911 turbo), I expect tuning companies will have a field day with remapping them - which might make buying a 991.2 Carrera turbo a much more attractive prospect price wise over buying a 991.2 turbo.

[hensh65]

That is crazy MPG for a car like that!! roll on a few years and almost all cars will have at least 1 turbo and some sort of auto box.

 

Sad sad times, although, could you run any other 911 as a daily as cheaply as that? Would you really notice that much on a motorway journey... I think only a few would.

 

And another big plus as Rabbitstew mentioned,,,,, 1 remap could turn them into seriously quick cars!!

[Commander]

If it brings with it 911 turbo reliability, this can't be a bad thing for them... Porsche NA engines may be good when they work, but when the NA engines in the 996, 997 & Cayman are all pretty poor in terms of reliability and catastrophic / expensive-to-fix failures... If all 911s become as reliable as the 996/997 turbos, Porsche's second-hand values will remain pretty high and that can only be a good thing for owners.

[nissanman312]

WOW, it looks so different from the other Porsches, must be because it's a facelift model! NOT!!

 

You tell the difference by the colour

[Stutopia]

Was there a similar feeling amongst Porsche types when they went air to water cooled?

 

Sucks they've gone turbo on everything though, NA muscle FTW!

[Floydbax]

Many said similar things when they went water cooled, didn't seem to make much difference in the end

[ATTAK Z]

Also, why mess with something that looks stunning?

 

I'm more disappointed with the power train than I am with the looks (rear lights are nice, I hate those front four LED things though).

 

Needs a nice rear plate

 

[brillomaster]

yeah, after all a lot of what makes a porsche a porsche is still present and correct - flat six engine, slung out behind the rear wheels. obviously still looks the same.

 

Plus its inevitable that things will be going turbocharged, but that does mean that turbos will continue to get better.

[martybhoy]

I hate the thought of all performance cars going the way of auto boxes and smaller turbo'do engines. I understand why but the real driving feel for me is when you and the machine are interacting. I know these flappy paddle shifts are ultra fast and that will help performance but it doesn't mean much to me in terms of feel!

[TT350]

I think strapping 2x turbo's to the 350 made it faster and better. It drives so much better.

 

But I know what you're saying.

[Will370z]

People had these worries with the Ferrari 488 but that's turned out to be a stunning vehicle.

[Ekona]

If it brings with it 911 turbo reliability, this can't be a bad thing for them... Porsche NA engines may be good when they work, but when the NA engines in the 996, 997 & Cayman are all pretty poor in terms of reliability and catastrophic / expensive-to-fix failures... If all 911s become as reliable as the 996/997 turbos, Porsche's second-hand values will remain pretty high and that can only be a good thing for owners.

That's the M97 engine though, which hasn't been used since 2008. The 9x7.2 cars all used the DFI lump*, which has proven itself to be bulletproof since.

 

 

*The 2.7 987 cars weren't DFI, but they used the same basic non-IMS block so I lump them together.

[glrnet]

I'm sure you'll get to test one eventually Dan, it'll be interesting to know what you think. 911 is really the only Porsche shape I really like

[Ekona]

I've already spoke to the dealership

[glrnet]

pmsl!! Why am I not surprised?

[Dynamic Turtle]

Extra weight, complexity and power are the complete opposite of what Porsche should be delivering. Very sad.

[Ekona]

I agree about the first one, but the latter two are exactly what a Porsche should be about. They always have been.

[Rock_Steady]

Here's my tupence-worth, I've always thought that the flat six in Porsches sounds like a clattering mechanical bag of tools. A wet fart sounds more satisfying IMO. Awful noise. Now, I await a landslide of insults and profanities.

[Ekona]

That's okay, that's exactly how I feel about the Ferrari V8 used in the 360 and 430. Chattering bag of spanners at idle, and doesn't even sound that great at the top end.

[Ekona]

Actually, you can include the Audi/Lambo V10 in that as well. It's all mechanical shuffling, not a lovely screamer of an engine as a V10 should be.

[brillomaster]

what!!! I was gonna come to the defence of a flat 6 engine saying it sounded great in Darren's boxster S, but then you went too far and said you didn't like the audi/lambo V10. My feelings about V10s are clearly known!