maxi-glasgow Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Was travelling along the M8 coming home late last Thursday night minding my own business and the traffic cops pulled me in. Knew I hadn't been speeding as I had cruise control on. They asked me into the back of the car and said I was speeding on the M80. I explained to them that I had been nowhere near that road and in fact had just called in and got petrol at Baillieston petrol station before coming back onto M8 so would be impossible for me to get onto M80 and get where I was when they pulled me. They said they would investigate my story but were adamant that it was me they seen 'driving like a bat out of hell' I was livid and basically being called a liar when I know I was in the right. They then went thru all the motions of checking my insurance etc and when they checked the registration the lady over the radio read out it was registered to myself but at a different address than my home address. Now I didn't realise this but I explained what must have happened, when I traded in my 350 the garage transferred over my number plate for me so they went into the DVLA office and took care of everything so when he registered the Jag he had put his home address but my name. The police then proceeded to write me out a fine for 30 pounds saying it must be registered to my home address. Now I have been searching everywhere since and cannot find this piece of legislation as I can see absolutely no reason why my car MUST be registered to my home address, as long as my insurance is at my home address I am not doing anything illegal as far as I could see. Just wondering if there is anyone out there who knows for sure, I don't want to go contesting it to just get a bigger fine. One little fact from a conversation with the ex-copper above was something I never knew, they said if you ever get pulled in by traffics then refuse to go into their car. You are not obliged to do so and they said as soon as you do then they can say you said anything and nothing you could do about it due to their being two of them. This is a very sad statement coming from an ex-copper and shows the regard ordinary police officers have for their traffic counterparts. I wondered if you were to get pulled and they demanded you into the back of their vehicle could you record everything using your mobile or would they no allow that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The V5 must be registered to the registered keepers name and address, otherwise you'd never get your tax reminder. Common sense surely dictates that much? Also refusing to go into the BiB car is just going to cause you to instantly fail the attitude test and isn't worth the bother. Even if there is only one of them they can make up any old story that they want, why would it be any different if it was two? It's actually more awkward with two of you as one would be relying on the other one to back him up and not drop him in it They should have no problem with you recording everything. If I were genuinely in the right then I'd ask them to write everything down on their notepad and we'd both sign it, if I didn't have a recording device on me. Again though, we're back to failing the attitude test in a big way. £30 is peanuts, consider it a lesson learnt to always have your paperwork in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 1 cop vs 2 cops. I've been done before by 1 cop on his own in his car, so there is no need to have another cop to back things up. This was back a good ten years ago when I was young and reckless. The cop did a statement saying that he had chased me for a good mile doing over 90mph and I was out accelerating him and he could not keep up with me in his police Volvo t-5 turbo (or whatever they used to drive in them days). In actual fact, the only reason the cop caught up with me at the time was because id got stuck at some traffic lights and after sitting there for a good 3 or 4 minutes I heard some police sirens. I had no idea he`d been trying to follow me. Went to court, i pleaded guilty (cos i was) expecting a ban, got 3 points & a fine. As far as Magistrates are concerned they will nearly always believe the policemans word over yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The police are upstanding citizens in our society whereas road law breakers are lying scum, why would anyone disbelieve a policeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 1 cop vs 2 cops matters in Scots Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think a copper friend told me police count as expert witnesses. So i imagine their testomony carries more weight. But you would have thought some evidence is needed. i thought most police cars had cameras in now anyway? Re registration. i think the bit about address is on the back of the v5 iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 try the forums on http://www.pepipoo.com - a 'motoring justice' site - some good info on there S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I find directgov fairly good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancer Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Driver of that car was a total bell*nd IMO. Cop remained polite throughout and the driver came over like a petulant child. Im not sure about the fine in the OP - though a car with no registered keeper will raise my suspicions. If it all checks out then off they go. From the limited dealings I've had with Scottish law (ie interviewing people on ScotsPols behalf) they do require two cops. Scots law isn't the same as ours. Primarily because they don't have the Police and Criminal Evidence act up there. You can refuse to get in a car if you want, but, as above, it won't do you any favours. Or rather, it won't make the cops more likely to do you any favours. In my experience, obstructive people often have something to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Driver of that car was a total bell*nd IMO. Cop remained polite throughout and the driver came over like a petulant child. Im not sure about the fine in the OP - though a car with no registered keeper will raise my suspicions. If it all checks out then off they go. From the limited dealings I've had with Scottish law (ie interviewing people on ScotsPols behalf) they do require two cops. Scots law isn't the same as ours. Primarily because they don't have the Police and Criminal Evidence act up there. You can refuse to get in a car if you want, but, as above, it won't do you any favours. Or rather, it won't make the cops more likely to do you any favours. In my experience, obstructive people often have something to hide. I disagree. What i've found is that police use the power of suggestion to manipulate people into incriminating themselves. The police officer tried to and the driver of the vehicle merely exercised his right as a law abiding citizen. If he had got out and into the police car they would have definately given him a ticket. Coming from a family with one of Europe's top ranked lawyers I know what happens with stuff like this. The police are merely there to exercise the law, not to analyse it. Unless they have sufficient evidence of a crime taking place they literally have no power over a citizen who knows his legal standing. The guy in the video merely passed his judgement of the situation in which the police officer had no evidence or grounds to argue with him. He told the police officer he wasnt interested in his suggestions and the police could not argue with this. So he done his checks and let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 looking at getting an in car video recording system for car accidents and parking dings. would be good for stuff like that too! good luck dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancer Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I disagree. What i've found is that police use the power of suggestion to manipulate people into incriminating themselves. The police officer tried to and the driver of the vehicle merely exercised his right as a law abiding citizen. If he had got out and into the police car they would have definately given him a ticket. Coming from a family with one of Europe's top ranked lawyers I know what happens with stuff like this. The police are merely there to exercise the law, not to analyse it. Unless they have sufficient evidence of a crime taking place they literally have no power over a citizen who knows his legal standing. The guy in the video merely passed his judgement of the situation in which the police officer had no evidence or grounds to argue with him. He told the police officer he wasnt interested in his suggestions and the police could not argue with this. So he done his checks and let him go. Nah - unless he's been cautioned and is subject to a contemporaneous written (roadside) interview then nothing the driver says is evidential. It would be a hearsay statement and generally not worth the paper it's written on. I think I know what you mean re: sufficient evidence of a crime occuring. However, what the cop has witnessed would be evidence. From the video it sounds like the guy pulled out in front of the cop at speed? That would be pretty low on the scale in terms of careless driving etc: however I would certainly be having a word with the driver to see if there was a reason why he drove poorly. Drink/drugs/tiredness/distraction etc: I'd guess from the video that the cop wasn't really looking at careless, otherwise he likely would have gone through a contemp interview. Having someone in the car doesn't mean they are getting a ticket. Not sure that statement makes any kind of sense. Besides which, the driver can always decline to accept the ticket and have his/her day in court instead. I stand by what I said re: the attitudes involved. The driver has obviously got a kick out of behaving like a kid. So he posted his video online to brag and boast. The cop probably thought "Meh" and went back to work, thinking no more of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just watched the vid, now without seeing the situation its difficult to comment on what actually happened and the video, the drivers response and the coppers response could all be taken out of context. i wouldn't say the copper was particularly rude alright a bit short with the responses but personally i didn't find myself warming to the driver. it did feel like he had a bee in his bonnet with regards to the police, like this wasn't the first time, as its not most peoples first instinct to video the conversation. he may well have been correct, but it does make me wonder if he'd had a bit more manners he might have got on with/dealt with better the police man? this might be my naiveté towards the police as all the run ins I've ever had with them have been pretty straight forward, if you play nice they play nice. but i could just have been lucky i suppose. for me though if a student had been like that towards me if i was addressing a situation, they wouldn't be endearing themselves to me put it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 forgot to add, with regards to the OP he could try CAB (Citizens advise Bureau) they would be able to offer free legal advise on the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 When I was acquitted of speeding in a 30 zone (because I was a law abiding 19 year old in an Alfa) (OK I had a better solicitor) and yes it was a few tears ago! My solicitor quoted from some legislation in a book that the speed had to be verified by a device such as a calibrated speedometer or the opinion of a correctly trained Police officer. In my case it was an officer who's "expert opinion" was taken apart by the defence A for registration doc V5 the only thing I do know is the registered keeper does not have to be the owner not sure about the address having to be correct but I'm sure they will have a bit of legislation somewhere that says it does. Apparently your driving licence paper part is not valid if you don't sign it and you can get a fine if its not signed, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I disagree. What i've found is that police use the power of suggestion to manipulate people into incriminating themselves. The police officer tried to and the driver of the vehicle merely exercised his right as a law abiding citizen. If he had got out and into the police car they would have definately given him a ticket. Coming from a family with one of Europe's top ranked lawyers I know what happens with stuff like this. The police are merely there to exercise the law, not to analyse it. Unless they have sufficient evidence of a crime taking place they literally have no power over a citizen who knows his legal standing. The guy in the video merely passed his judgement of the situation in which the police officer had no evidence or grounds to argue with him. He told the police officer he wasnt interested in his suggestions and the police could not argue with this. So he done his checks and let him go. Nah - unless he's been cautioned and is subject to a contemporaneous written (roadside) interview then nothing the driver says is evidential. It would be a hearsay statement and generally not worth the paper it's written on. I think I know what you mean re: sufficient evidence of a crime occuring. However, what the cop has witnessed would be evidence. From the video it sounds like the guy pulled out in front of the cop at speed? That would be pretty low on the scale in terms of careless driving etc: however I would certainly be having a word with the driver to see if there was a reason why he drove poorly. Drink/drugs/tiredness/distraction etc: I'd guess from the video that the cop wasn't really looking at careless, otherwise he likely would have gone through a contemp interview. Having someone in the car doesn't mean they are getting a ticket. Not sure that statement makes any kind of sense. Besides which, the driver can always decline to accept the ticket and have his/her day in court instead. I stand by what I said re: the attitudes involved. The driver has obviously got a kick out of behaving like a kid. So he posted his video online to brag and boast. The cop probably thought "Meh" and went back to work, thinking no more of it. I get stopped regularly due to the attention my car draws but most have been pleasant. I have had a few that do the usual " how do you afford a car like that?" etc but, as always, its nothing to do with them unless I have broken laws to obtain said vehicle. With regards to going into a police vehicle, What I would say, when you enter a police car there is usually two officers so whatever is said, unless recorded, is useless as the officer's statements' is what will be used. They can say anything and accuse you of anything. You stand no chance of arguing it (exactly what happened with maxi). Most people will just accept the fine as they fear going to court to defend themselves could end up with them getting a larger fine. Most cases if argued with good legal advice will be dropped. You are in no way obliged to enter a police vehicle, you are not breaching any laws filming police officers. You are in no way obliged to make any comments(usually this will be used against you as you will incriminate yourself). What I find more alarming is the large number of police officers that do not know the laws they are supposed to be exercising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Apparently your driving licence paper part is not valid if you don't sign it and you can get a fine if its not signed, Yeah, didn't get a fine but received a written warning for not signing my paper licence many years ago. Most ridiculous fine I ever got was £1 for blowing my horn when leaving a pub after the horn curfew hour, only gave a quick toot to my mate Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I find the whole 'look how ace I am making a fool of someone' and 'ooooh I'm a cyclist and a car cut me up' vids on YouTube extremely lame. I hold them with the same regard as 'serious' reviewers on Trip Advisor. Absolute waste of bandwidth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's the older police guys with tashes that are useless they usually get the BMW or big Volvo rather than an Astra In the 350 I've never had any trouble and they always been polite but I used to have a 106 diesel and they treated me like crap when I drove that. I came out my work once started my car and put the heaters on as the windows where steamed up. About 1minute later a police car came over telling me to move move now. I was polite and explained the situation they couldn't see me through the windscreen but that said just move. Wtf? I felt like smashing into their car and saying I couldn't see where I'm going. But honestly I felt because the car I drove they picked on me. I'd get stopped 3 times a week. But the younger guys generally seem to be nicer some older ones too are nice guys. It's a very small proportion that are power mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's the older police guys with tashes that are useless they usually get the BMW or big Volvo rather than an Astra In the 350 I've never had any trouble and they always been polite but I used to have a 106 diesel and they treated me like crap when I drove that. I came out my work once started my car and put the heaters on as the windows where steamed up. About 1minute later a police car came over telling me to move move now. I was polite and explained the situation they couldn't see me through the windscreen but that said just move. Wtf? I felt like smashing into their car and saying I couldn't see where I'm going. But honestly I felt because the car I drove they picked on me. I'd get stopped 3 times a week. But the younger guys generally seem to be nicer some older ones too are nice guys. It's a very small proportion that are power mad. To be honest ive never been pulled much by the police. Even when I had hot hatches. Mainly because i was never the sort of person who`d go out on a Saturday night in my car like a lot of young lads do. I only ever used to drive to work & back, then spend all weekend tuning them and polishing them. I did have a funny incident once when id been out on the town and was driving back home in my Renault 5 GT Turbo. It was about 2am one Saturday morning and I immediately noticed this police car behind me as I drove out of the city centre. After following me for about 1/2 mile he pulls me over , looks around the car and says "do you know why we pulled you over?". "No officer" I replied. "Because you were driving too cautiously" says the copper. I felt like saying "Of course I was driving cautiously, im hardly likely to be driving like an idiot with an f`ing police car up my a$$ now am I??!?!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm the same I'm not really into cruising. The same is starting up happen with my 172 more and more chavs are drive them they look at you the same way. Usually once they talk to you they are ok but when you get pulled regularly its a pain. The exact same happened to me. I said I was nervous as you guys (5-0) was behind me. The officer even admitted to being nervous when the police are behind him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancer Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I get stopped regularly due to the attention my car draws but most have been pleasant. I have had a few that do the usual " how do you afford a car like that?" etc but, as always, its nothing to do with them unless I have broken laws to obtain said vehicle. With regards to going into a police vehicle, What I would say, when you enter a police car there is usually two officers so whatever is said, unless recorded, is useless as the officer's statements' is what will be used. They can say anything and accuse you of anything. You stand no chance of arguing it (exactly what happened with maxi). Most people will just accept the fine as they fear going to court to defend themselves could end up with them getting a larger fine. Most cases if argued with good legal advice will be dropped. You are in no way obliged to enter a police vehicle, you are not breaching any laws filming police officers. You are in no way obliged to make any comments(usually this will be used against you as you will incriminate yourself). What I find more alarming is the large number of police officers that do not know the laws they are supposed to be exercising. "They can say anything and accuse you of anything." This is the bit I really don't like (obviously, im heavily biased!). Cops, by definition, have to be honest. There's very very very few who aren't. There are departments of people with rubber heels on their shoes who get all excited about screwing cops who make mistakes, let alone the genuinely dishonest ones. Being dishonest and lying to get a summons or an arrest.. morals aside, it's simply not worth it. "Most cases if argued with good legal advice will be dropped." I'm not sure about that, but neither of us can win that arguement! As you say, you are not obliged to enter a Police car unless you've been arrested. However I fail to see the difference between a coversation with a cop in a cop car and a conversation with a cop through your window. If they were willing to lie like you mentioned above, they could do it just as well from beside your window. Your more likely to be recorded in a traffic car if they have internal cameras (not so common in my force area). For what it's worth - the "how do you afford.." question is probably a compliment. If they thought it was nicked, you would know about it. I got accused of being on the take when I brought the Zed into work the first few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Obviously It's a matter of opinion on this matter about honest cops etc. Maybe the Glasgow forces operate differently and you are one of a few honest cops left. No matter what happens its all down to evidence and if there's no evidence you will win your case. I may have a biased opinion as I have been in this situation before and also having a lawyer in the family who really knows the law better than any officer I have came across. Most police officers are just out of school up here and have a massive chip on their shoulder. A very old friend of mine is a police officer and he has now lost all his mates due to his attitude to people and the "power trip" he is on. He wasn't well respected at school and not tough but now he thinks he is lord justice and basically we all think he's a complete d*ck. He has ended up wih a girl who is also an officer as no normal girl would ever go with him due to his attitude. Almost every police office I know is going out with or married to another police officer. Another mates sister is also cop and I know for fact that alot of the cops are all riding each other like blackpool donkeys on the job. Obviously you're a member of the police force and have a heavily biased opinion but deep inside you you have a normal citizen. This has been programmed out of you though to change your thought processes. No matter what any normal person would say to you will change your opinion as you have been programmed to think a certain way the same as I have for my job. Would you deny that police officer regularly break the law? This is in no way a personal dig at you Rancer as I dont know you and from what I've seen on here you're polite and obviously one of the fairer cops that exist, but, surely you must see stuff happening that, if you were a normal citizen and not a police officer, you would think is a bit unfair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I know for fact that alot of the cops are all riding each other like blackpool donkeys on the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.