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Adrian@TORQEN

New Z confirmed by Nissan

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So I admit I like a Zed, to show I’m not as anti-Zed as you’d like to believe I am, but I’m still in the wrong? Okay bud, whatever floats your boat. 
 

Again, I have no idea what’s coming, but I’ve stated clearly what I think a new Zed needs and what I think it will be. Care to share yours, or are you happy picking holes still? 

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To be honest you could go right back and pick out the dozens of “my mate knows it’s being launched at X motor show this year” it was all a load of old rubbish. I found one where it was a bang on certainty it was coming out in 2018 - it is obvious that there is lineage and at some point Nissan might launch another one but there were more incorrect claims about it being launched than not. 
 

Personally I’m not really one for going over old gossip and prefer to see stuff a little more concrete before getting excited, but hey that’s just me.

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More than happy to pick holes, yours are glaring.  

 

I am non fussed, I’ll have a look when it’s revealed, I’m not of the opinion, as you’re clearly, that it’s non existent, or rubbish.

 

I’ve picked holes in most of your assumptions and position, as it’s not tenable.

 

when it arrives, that’s the time to critic, you, as in you, cannot critic from a position of denial as to its creation, but also, my WHOLE point has been the incontrovertible and inconsistent position from those that wish to defend a position from no knowledge. 

 

It'll be what it is, I’ll look, as I’ve previously stated, at a new car that is in 2 seat variant, that comes to the market as a viable option.  

 

I will not dismiss, any new car, as you have done, that is in development, probably advanced development from a standpoint of, its rubbish.

 

That fair?

 

 

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Anyway Dan haven’t you got other more pressing issues to worry about right now than this! ;)

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4 minutes ago, coldel said:

To be honest you could go right back and pick out the dozens of “my mate knows it’s being launched at X motor show this year” it was all a load of old rubbish. I found one where it was a bang on certainty it was coming out in 2018 - it is obvious that there is lineage and at some point Nissan might launch another one but there were more incorrect claims about it being launched than not. 
 

Personally I’m not really one for going over old gossip and prefer to see stuff a little more concrete before getting excited, but hey that’s just me.

Yeah, that would be fair if you stuck to that, I posted a link to a previous thread that counteracts this viewpoint :shrug:

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7 minutes ago, The G Man said:

Yeah, that would be fair if you stuck to that, I posted a link to a previous thread that counteracts this viewpoint :shrug:

Aye to be fair that one was right, but if you take an objective view and look through the last five years of posting on the subject there are dozens of claims that it was 100% certain it was coming out this year because of X Y and Z. In fact only last year we were told by the people in the know 2020 was the year it would be out .. would people like me to point and laugh at those quotes?

 

Anyway in other news humans will colonise Mars next year...sure you may laugh...but If I keep repeating it each year until it happens I can then say I told you so ;)

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Aye point away, I’m only reacting to the OP, and the continued rubbishing, that’s all.

 

Oh, I’m first on the list for a new house on Mars :teeth:

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Hot topic then. Long post.

 

What could stop it from coming to market?

 

Covid 20

Extreme financial losses

Recession

New CEO or CFO

Change of board members etc etc

 

In early 2019 around the time I posted about the Alpine the rumours were regaining traction regarding an interview Alfonso Albaisa supposedly had at a motorshow.

 

Around the same time I spoke to a senior sales man at Nissan London West and I think we chatted for 20 minutes. He claimed hes been to Japan a few times and met Tamura and Albaisa. Chief Engineer and Vice President of global design for Nissan.

 

He said to me a new Z is coming but no GTR. I didnt believe him 100% but I posted in some threads saying something similar. Obviously the castration followed stating no case for a new Z based on sales in EU.

 

Little did anyone know that the business case was already approved in fall 2018 according to a former shareholder. I then spotted a video by r35addict i watched again in which I noticed him in the background. He had invited Tamura to Manchester to speak about the then ongoing r36 project in 2017. Now on hold. So he was telling the truth about knowing Tamura.

 

Nissan didnt foresee having huge financial losses in 2019 but the business case made more sense and was likely to be approved and not withdrawn. Which is why its still a go despite 2019 losses.

 

The thing that made me laugh was that that teaser was released during a pandemic. I have a feeling it was done on purpose. No better way to fire shots at the naysayers than announcing 10 plus new models over the next 18 months during Covid 19 culminating with Z.

 

It makes sense that a new Z would use the current underpinnings. A new platform will cost a serious amount of money hence the GTR being put on hold for post recovery.

 

The latest business update from few days ago reiterates the target 2023 date for review of 3.5 year old models as well as investments and planning for the next gen models 

 

The new Z will use current 370Z platform and ill assume that any potential new platform in 2025 would be shared with the current Nismo Leaf Race Car developed with tech from Formula E. The only justification for a new platform would be Electrification or a move towards. Current the Leaf Race car has a 3.4 seconds to 60 time using 2x 120kwh batteries. Right now is too expensive to put on the market. 

 

This would definitely save Nissan money. As by 2025 if they chose to go Electric or Hybrid Petrol. It would have been tried and tested for 5 years. By 2025 120kwh x2 may be normalised to around £40,000 who knows. Im sure with some sorcery that could even be tuned to compete with the upcoming Tesla coupe around a track maybe. The GTR may become a Tesla coupe competitor in 2030. 

 

The new Z will sport all new body panels, lights, bumpers. The rigidity bars, beams, frame will most likely stay the same. A similar roof line but different boot and rear end

 

New shocks, fine tuned engine, New Lights, New seats, new interior, New Exhaust to suit the car, new interior materials, new dash, new steering wheel, new infotainment system, new parts. Safe to say its a very heavy facelift as thats what Nissan have invested. That's all they are willing to invest until 2025. That was the only way a new Z would happen. 

 

Unfortunately you cant please everyone. I learnt that the hard way. But there are 1000s of users who would be pleased at the possibility of a new model when we thought hope was lost. 

 

Yes the 350Z was a new car from the ground up with a serious amount of money invested. Apparently it took 1.5 years from final design to full release. 

 

The new Z was designed and clay modelled in late 2018 according to this same insider as part of the business case. 3 years to release is a long time. Lately Ivan Espinosa has said the Z will be revealed soon. It wont be hybrid or Electric. So the next 5 years could be your last chance to get a Petrol Z Thats new

 

Also I like what Nissan are doing now with the Leaf Race car. Instead of chucking £500 million into R and D for the Z now to release next year like the Germans. Chuck in half that for the 2021 model and start Research and Development now for a totally new car in 2025 along with the GTR 

 

 

 

Edited by GranTurismoEra
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So same engine? Interesting. 
 

I don’t get why Nissan would choose a Zed over a GTR for a new car. The R35 set the world on fire, it was a true halo car. Why ditch that and focus on a Zed car? Can only be financial, as in total lack of funds. Very odd choice. 

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22 minutes ago, Ekona said:

So same engine? Interesting. 
 

I don’t get why Nissan would choose a Zed over a GTR for a new car. The R35 set the world on fire, it was a true halo car. Why ditch that and focus on a Zed car? Can only be financial, as in total lack of funds. Very odd choice. 

Highly unlikely to be the same engine. Most likely a VR30DDTT from Q60. Only thing is its 4 years old and Will need to be fined tuned to meet EU regulations should it come to Europe

 

Would be a safe bet to tune it to comply with EU as they have the strictest emission rules. 

 

R36 would cost a lot more. Up to 4 times. Around a billion dollars. Also highly unlikely they would use the R35 platform it would be a totally new car. 

 

Nissan have cash reserves but would rather use money from general sales to develop a new car. 

 

The GTR sales are just as bad. The lower cost of the Z development is more cost effective

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I'm glad they've gone for a new z car over a new gtr, the z cars are much more attainable for normal people.

 

I also have the view of the 370z not being different enough to the 350z to warrant changing over in the future (although my view on this may change as my 350z gets older I guess), so would look forward to a 400z as a car I could possibly look at upgrading to in the future.

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8 hours ago, GranTurismoEra said:

Highly unlikely to be the same engine. Most likely a VR30DDTT from Q60. Only thing is its 4 years old and Will need to be fined tuned to meet EU regulations should it come to Europe

Sorry, your text read as it wasn’t a new engine. Apologies. 

 

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1 hour ago, Rikz2004 said:

I'm glad they've gone for a new z car over a new gtr, the z cars are much more attainable for normal people.

 

I also have the view of the 370z not being different enough to the 350z to warrant changing over in the future (although my view on this may change as my 350z gets older I guess), so would look forward to a 400z as a car I could possibly look at upgrading to in the future.

I think the changes will be a bit more of a change than the previous gen. Also while Nissan can make a 4 liter V6 that's naturally aspirated like Porsche Its easier and more cost effective to use an already existing Turbo engine. Although its already a few years old. With some fine tuning I think it could be a good fit. They may need to rework it to sound better as Im yet to hear a great sounding Q60

 

It would be a real possibility for many. I think with more striking colours combined with the design youre looking at a car that ticks most boxes aesthetically. A 90s rear design with a modern look at the front. The overall shape a bigger 240Z. 

 

There will also be an aftermarket for things like rear spoilers front lip etc that may not come with the car to really set it off.

 

 

Edited by GranTurismoEra
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1 hour ago, Ekona said:

Sorry, your text read as it wasn’t a new engine. Apologies. 

 

all good, while that engine was great it did lack puff post 6800k revs. Easily fixed with an ECU tune though. For what it is it was fairly reliable and really forgiving on MPG on a long run. Its emissions are quite high. This vr30 throws out 210kg fm 38 kg less. It could be further reduced with some tuning. If the car by some miracle costs £39,999. You could be paying £150-£250 in road tax

 

With this VR30 we can go from 276 ft lbs to 350 ft lbs in a 1500,kg car which would put the performance close with the m2 Competition and Supra. 

 

350ft lbs was the q60. A smooth luxury coupe with 5 second acceleration in an 1800kg car. A Z needs at least 380-406 ft lbs in a 1550kg car. Maybe they can get the weight down but the cost will be factor. Can get the acceleration down to a reliable 4 seconds with those torque numbers and the right wheels

 

Again the engine is still up in the air. Nissan are conservative with numbers for reliability. There is potential for a Nismo trim to come with 400-410 ft lbs and some extra horsepower which is dead level with the M2 comp. I Just dont expect a huge hike over standard GT.

Edited by GranTurismoEra
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/436876/toyota-supra-six-speed-manual/amp/

 

Toyota Supra may get a manual gearbox from 2022. Not long after the release of the Z

 

Also a quote from Supramkv forum

 

supraboi said: ↑

Idk how I feel about the chrome on the roof line. It could make the car look tacky. 

 

Can't be any worse than tacking on 8 fake vents. 

 

:lol:

 

 

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11 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said:

 

Toyota Supra may get a manual gearbox from 2022. Not long after the release of the Z

 

Although it is probably out of my budget new, I do hope that the Supra does eventually get offered with a manual gearbox. In years to come it is a car that does really appeal to me. B)

 

I liked the looks/shape of it when I looked around one a while back, although it does seem a very marmite car for many though looks wise for sure. 

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Can you imagine how much a manual GRMN Supra would be? £100k? I could see it being that, and it would probably sell out too. I’m not sure BMW would give them the M4 lump though, I reckon it’s more likely we’ll see a version still with the auto box but maybe a remapped engine for another 40bhp perhaps. Plus tacky carbon bits as well ofc. 

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1 hour ago, Ekona said:

Can you imagine how much a manual GRMN Supra would be? £100k? I could see it being that, and it would probably sell out too. I’m not sure BMW would give them the M4 lump though, I reckon it’s more likely we’ll see a version still with the auto box but maybe a remapped engine for another 40bhp perhaps. Plus tacky carbon bits as well ofc. 

BMW would happily sell them those engines to design around as long as theyre limited and they can eat into those profits. BMW have a lot to gain from a radical GRMN version. Toyota fanboys would lap it up and BMW would get their cut in profits.

 

Where fanboys are concerned, its all star trek focused spectacles. Its not a BMW its a Toyota. £72,000+ 510hp lightweight car touching budget Supercar territory.

On the flipside if they wanted exclusivety they may never have given the B58. They may never have worked with Toyota in the first place. 

 

The B58 has proven to be their most reliable engine in recent years so I guess theyve chosen to stick with it and keep making them for Toyota. Meanwhile BMW moved forward with S58 and S65 engines. 

 

It may be far fetched now but I wont be suprised. As Toyota can style a near FT-1 the fanboys complained about and save face for the final year or two maybe. Its still possible on the current car. I do see them going extreme instead

Edited by GranTurismoEra
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That’s my point, I can’t see an S-engine in the Toyota. B58 sure, they can’t shift them fast enough. 
 

I would disagree with you on one point though: It’s not a Toyota. It’s a BMW. Badge engineering at its finest. 

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1 hour ago, Ekona said:

That’s my point, I can’t see an S-engine in the Toyota. B58 sure, they can’t shift them fast enough. 
 

I would disagree with you on one point though: It’s not a Toyota. It’s a BMW. Badge engineering at its finest. 

:lol: careful now 

 

In the mean time I guess we,ll wait for some solid information on the S engine. Still around 3-4 years away apparently. Close to end of life.

 

Also Rumors floating around regarding 400hp Type R with Hybrid Engine. Guess 300hp is now old news in the mid range performance cars

 

Toyota fans think the A100 will follow after this generation ends in 4-5 years time and that Z wont have any impact on Supra.

 

Edited by GranTurismoEra

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4 hours ago, Lee370Z said:

Although it is probably out of my budget new, I do hope that the Supra does eventually get offered with a manual gearbox. In years to come it is a car that does really appeal to me. B)

 

I liked the looks/shape of it when I looked around one a while back, although it does seem a very marmite car for many though looks wise for sure. 

Great shape, just unsure on the plastics, vents and bodykit. Sometimes less is more. I think by 2022 there will be choice of both in manual.

 

while the Supra appears smaller. The new Z may be slightly slimmer than the 370 we,ll have to wait and see when revealed

 

Also twin scroll vs twin turbo 369 ft lbs vs 350 ft lbs.

 

Hopefully nismo tuned to 400 ft lbs depends on tolerances..... probably conservative

 

We will see if Toyota bring the higher powered 2021 Supra to Europe. Something to do with emissions...

 

Ekonas right, i havent seen any on the road....

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7 hours ago, Lee370Z said:

Although it is probably out of my budget new, I do hope that the Supra does eventually get offered with a manual gearbox. In years to come it is a car that does really appeal to me. B)

 

I liked the looks/shape of it when I looked around one a while back, although it does seem a very marmite car for many though looks wise for sure. 

It may be sooner than you think . . .

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/07/the-toyota-supra-may-soon-get-a-manual-transmission/

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Four cylinder with a manual as per the Z4 would be a good drive, less weight albeit with an inferior soundtrack. 

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