Russia out of Europe?

[davey_83]

The shocking events from Salisbury, we all have an opinion about the incident and now the fallout - what do you think? 

Edited March 22, 2018 by davey_83

[marzman]

A couple of my colleagues were talking about it today and they were saying they wouldn't be surprised if America was behind the poisoning in order to frame Russia.

[coldel]

It all seems a bit odd. The press were pretty much saying it was Russia before any tests were done. Boris has been an utter muppet as usual and I am not sure why the UK are not co-operating with Russia and not disclosing any evidence to them. If its that cut and dried why not share any findings? No doubt Putin is a brutal leader but it all seems a bit odd.

[Stutopia]

I think we all know the perils of these international commies; disrupting the Catalan/Spain relationship, electing Trump, causing Brexit, they shot JFK, turned Pepsi into Coke, disappeared Jimmy Hoffa, created Jeremy Corbyn, made Syria great again, inflated London house prices and invented the EV. That’s just the stuff we know about. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they weren’t responsible for Harry choosing to marry outside his socio-ethnic group too.

 

 

[Ekona]

Russia’s response was very odd. Using a nerve agent to take out a traitor is excessive to say the least, not to mention incredibly risky politically. Why not just shoot the guy? Botched robbery etc. These guys are pros, and this all just seems a little amateur. 

 

However, going back to my first sentence, why did Russia not really deny it? They’ve basically done nothing more than pooh-pooh the whole idea, rather than be outraged at the suggestion. That suggests to me that they did do it, and aren’t actually that bothered about people knowing that. Muscle flexing? And just before the presidential election? Yeah, sounds about right to me. Bearing in mind Putin is losing his support from Trump due to Trump being a bit useless, I can see why he’d want to do something like that. 

 

I’ve no doubt Russia was responsible, if not directly then indirectly at least. They’ve taken a mighty big risk doing it though, so there’s a bigger end game here. 

[Rock_Steady]

I do think perhaps we went in guns blazing here, after all it's about what you can prove, not what we think or believe. This is not to say that Russia didn't do it, they very well may have. IMO, it would've come across a lot better for us and worse for Russia if we had some conclusive evidence to wave in their face. 

[Ekona]

To convince even the EU (who don’t really like us atm) that the Russkies did it, there must be some seriously credible evidence. For security reasons it’s safe to assume they’re not going to publically show this. 

[coldel]

It's less about publicly showing the evidence and more about sharing it with the accused though. If someone said you did something the first thing you would ask for is evidence of it. Until the Russians see it they can play the card they are which is that it's unfounded and anti-russia. 

[valy]

whoever used this nerve agent would have had all planned not to be traced back....doubt it they will find the responsible,that's why all the finger pointing...

[davey_83]

I think it all clearly points to Russia, however until our government confirms to the public they have undeniable evidence - what we're doing in the EU is nowt more than bully-boy tactics.

 

What our PM I believe should have said is 'were are going to work with the Russian government to get to the bottom of this' as there's every chance neither party was directly involved.

Edited March 23, 2018 by davey_83

[coldel]

There was some CCTV footage of two people they wanted to find but that suddenly went quiet? But I find it odd that its 99% Russia but we refuse to do anything apart from expel some diplomats?

[Stutopia]

Is there any difference between the Ruskies nerving one of their nationals in the UK and us drone striking one of our nationals out in the desert?

[Ekona]

8 minutes ago, SuperStu said:

Is there any difference between the Ruskies nerving one of their nationals in the UK and us drone striking one of our nationals out in the desert?

As I see it, 100% definitely. Doing it on sovereign soil is a big no-no, abroad is fair game. 

[Ekona]

And there’s no chance in hell that we’ve not shown the Russians the evidence. They know we know they know we know. 

[docwra]

Pretty much comes down to "Was it Novichok?". If it was, and an apparently independent UN Team are currently looking into it so we should know in a week or so, then it was very likely the Russians:

 

http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/scientist-brilliantly-tears-conspiracy-theory-about-russian-spy-to-shreds/

 

If it wasnt Novichok then I find it difficult to believe HM Gov would be stupid enough to claim it was. 

[Stutopia]

52 minutes ago, Ekona said:

As I see it, 100% definitely. Doing it on sovereign soil is a big no-no, abroad is fair game. 

But isn't 'abroad' someone else's sovereign soil?

[Ekona]

Yup, but not the target’s home country (ignoring that he is Russian, working on the basis he was given asylum here so basically one of us). 

 

It’s a moral grey area I know. 

[Stutopia]

16 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Yup, but not the target’s home country (ignoring that he is Russian, working on the basis he was given asylum here so basically one of us). 

 

It’s a moral grey area I know. 

Ah, fair enough. If anyone’s objection to this on technical grounds such as ‘was it legal’ or ‘an act of war’ etc, I can see why it’s causing a stir. From a purely moral stance I find it hard to get excited about one way of (or location of) killing someone over another.

 

You’d have to be some kind of crazed patriotic loon to believe that we don’t have state forces operating abroad doing the same thing but without the press coverage. 

[coldel]

Yeah but surely we are the goodies and they are the baddies right?

 

I mean, they subversively took Crimea by force, when have we ever invaded a country without warrant 

 

 

[Ekona]

I’ve seen every episode of Spooks, I know how this all works. 

[Jetpilot]

Doping their athletes, sailing their ships very close or in our waters etc etc I dont think they would hesitate one moment to off someone on our shores, i dont think they give a sh*t what they do and where.

[Jay84]

Not to mention flying their cold war relics in our airspace so we scramble our fighters, apparently that happens quite a lot. 

[DoogyRev]

Its known that defectors get to die in a painful way, shooting is too quick and easy it seems, the comparison to Litvinenko and Polonium-210 is pretty clear and this I think is where the finger pointing at Russia is coming from. Now thats not to say they didn't do it or knew about it. If there is evidence then it will come out soon enough, but as mentioned ^^ if you are going to plan something like this then you will have an escape route and the culprit may never be found. 

 

Now with Borris and his hitler comparison, I would not fancy going to the World Cup as a player or a spectator . .  the psycho Russian mobs and gangs will be looking for anyone English . . 

Edited March 23, 2018 by DoogyRev

[coldel]

You know we fly our planes and sail our ships off their coastline in international airspace/waters too right? 

[Jay84]

9 minutes ago, coldel said:

You know we fly our planes and sail our ships off their coastline in international airspace/waters too right? 

But we're allowed dammit .

Yeah I guess the Sun newspaper would make a mountain out of a mole hill with that kind of thing.