coldel Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I don't have any evidence to back it up but my personal gut feel is that the muslim community would be shocked not because of the person but because of the lack of respect for their religion. If you just say burned the body in a pit, I would imagine people wouldn't bat an eyelid, but the pig thing is a deliberate sleight on their belief system. As for making them think twice, cannot imagine that would do anything to achieve that goal at all, in fact I would think it would encourage those on the cusp of doing something barbaric to take that final step they might not have otherwise done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Why would muslims be offended by ANY treatment of a dead body of someone whom they claim to despise, who is 'not part of our islam'? To the moderate Islamic community, an islamic extremist is much worse than any infidel, I think if you took a poll amongst moderate muslims, you'd be surprised how many would support the idea because they too have had enough being tarred with the same brush as the extremists. I might be wrong though. cheer on authorities desecrating a corpse More sensationalist language, you're not selling it to me Dan, nobody would be cheering anything on, this isn't a revenge act, it's a deterrent, because I'm pretty sure they DO believe that getting eaten by a pig and then defacated, would preclude your entry to Sky Fairy Land. As for desecration, now you're supporting the Sky Fairy stuff. You can't 'desecrate' anything, unless you think it's sacred in the first place (reality is of course that nothing is sacred, because sacrosanctity is a human construct, just like the Sky Fairies). Anyway, I get what you mean, you're not wrong about the reality, but perhaps we should try to change that reality, you seem to be supporting it? People could definitely be a bit less sensitive and a bit stronger psychologically. I genuinely believe that if someone comes up with a good idea (not this one in particular, just any good idea) that would be effective at achieving the goal of preventing these attacks, but it offends people, then those offended can take a running jump. Hm... let me choose for a second...my 5 yr old daughter getting stabbed in the street or run over in broad daylight, or not offending Mr Akhbar... tough one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I don't have any evidence to back it up but my personal gut feel is that the muslim community would be shocked not because of the person but because of the lack of respect for their religion. If you just say burned the body in a pit, I would imagine people wouldn't bat an eyelid, but the pig thing is a deliberate sleight on their belief system. As for making them think twice, cannot imagine that would do anything to achieve that goal at all, in fact I would think it would encourage those on the cusp of doing something barbaric to take that final step they might not have otherwise done. Yep, but that's what we need, an attack on their belief system, don't forget it's that belief system (warped or not) that is making them kill our children. Like I said, if I was King of the world, things would be different. I think religion is a backward institution, nothing more than an unnecessary fear mechanism. The only good it does is provide hope for those who need it, and for them, I completely understand the need, but to cater to religious sensitivities in the face of death of your loved ones? I simply don't think that's the right trade. Take your sky faires and fk off if you don't like it (not you , just in general). This is not a knee jerk reaction to recent events on my part, it is a belief I have held for many years, that all religion does more harm than good in the grand scheme of things, everything will be better when people wake up and realise they don't need it any more. If we don't attack them at a level that hurts their religious sensibilities, we cannot win, because that is ALL they care about. Edited June 7, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I didn't mean literal cheering on, as well you know. It's not a deterrant at all, even if they thought they wouldn't get to heaven because of it they'd still happily go do a mass kill because it's massively insulting to their religion. I don't agree with religion at all, and think it should all be banned, but since it's not then it would be desecration in their opinion. Doesn't matter if I think it's bunkum or not, it's what the murdering scum think that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 We do have to hit them in their virgins though, I don't have a better idea currently, but you have to consider the following... Radicalisers prey on the fact that Abedi and his mates feel that a glorious death followed by ascension to paradise is preferable to any life they could have in the UK. There are two ways to possibly address this. Take away paradise, or make the alternative (life in the UK) seem more appealing than a glorious death. I don't think the latter will ever achieve much success, too much bad blood now, so we are left with the former. Take away paradise. If the extremist believed that he would definitely not be going to paradise, I don't think he'd do it. Period. Not saying this is what we should do, you know, just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The nightmare scenario is that ISIS manage to get someone to miniaturise a nuke and get it here inside a rucksack, undetected. Not gonna happen. One of the main reasons they are getting away with stuff more than before is because they are being very clever in how they are Recruiting, and engaging their supporters. There's no financial trail for the intelligence services to track. They are either internet led information cells or done in rare occasions, face to face but underground to avoid being noticed. The US have made nuclear tipped tank shells. A long time ago. Unlikely to end up within the capabilities of your garden variety terrorist. Anyway. I'm sick of this subject now. Round and round the houses, confusion and division and that's just on this forum. I bet there's none of it in the ISIS camp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It's easy to gather a bunch of people with questionable sanity and turn them into a mob with a purpose, it's a bit more difficult to get people who have been told they are special snowflakes all their lives to agree on the right thing to do, since they've been told that their personal concerns matter just as much as the next person. WRONG. When the stuff hits the fan, you have to put your personal feelings aside and work toward the greater good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Like IS do. No personal feelings, just working towards what Allah tells them to. The biggest problem we have is that you cannot fight a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Most of what I have read here are patches to cover a massive problem. Groups of civilians with questionable motives tooling up to go hunting possible terrorists, seriously? Feeding corpses to pigs to make them scared (given they are prepared to have themselves riddled with bullets), are you sure? There is no force vs force solution to this, any one of the billions of people on this earth can decide they go out and kill people, its been happening since the dawn of humanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Groups of civilians with questionable motives tooling up to go hunting possible terrorists, seriously? . Not what I said at all. Seriously. Questionable motives? Such as concern for their communities? Hunting? Hunting? Yeah..right. Pitchforks and torches. You've taken what I've suggested and turned it into the Nazi Party hunting Jews just before the outbreak of WW2. Bloody groups of thugs getting "tooled" up. Get a grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Groups of civilians with questionable motives tooling up to go hunting possible terrorists, seriously? . Not what I said at all. Seriously. Questionable motives? Such as concern for their communities? Hunting? Hunting? Yeah..right. Pitchforks and torches. You've taken what I've suggested and turned it into the Nazi Party hunting Jews just before the outbreak of WW2. Bloody groups of thugs getting "tooled" up. Get a grip. i think it would be naive to think this wouldnt come as part of that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 ^^ I know its early days but have to admit i am pretty surprised and dare i say proud that until now there has been no "retaliation" to these attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 That wasn't all directed at you TT. I think educating us civillians is a great idea. What to look for, who to contact, best course of actions to take etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Groups of civilians with questionable motives tooling up to go hunting possible terrorists, seriously? . Not what I said at all. Seriously. Questionable motives? Such as concern for their communities? Hunting? Hunting? Yeah..right. Pitchforks and torches. You've taken what I've suggested and turned it into the Nazi Party hunting Jews just before the outbreak of WW2. Bloody groups of thugs getting "tooled" up. Get a grip. i think it would be naive to think this wouldnt come as part of that Becoming a thug who puts fear into communities that aren't of British descent is NOT my desire or objective. What we have now isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 We need posters and tv adverts like we had in ww2 and the cold war, we all carry a phone with decent camera EVERYWHERE we go. I have heard adverts on radio telling us to shop in our neighbour if they have a sudden chemical fertiliser delivery, other than that, i don't know what suspicious is. If someone told me that buying certain products and paying cash was suspicious and to make a call, I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Groups of civilians with questionable motives tooling up to go hunting possible terrorists, seriously? . Not what I said at all. Seriously. Questionable motives? Such as concern for their communities? Hunting? Hunting? Yeah..right. Pitchforks and torches. You've taken what I've suggested and turned it into the Nazi Party hunting Jews just before the outbreak of WW2. Bloody groups of thugs getting "tooled" up. Get a grip. i think it would be naive to think this wouldnt come as part of that Becoming a thug who puts fear into communities that aren't of British descent is NOT my desire or objective. What we have now isn't working. Hence the questionable motives point - the people signing up to this are not on the whole going to be priests and nurses, not sure if you are old enough to remember the Guardian Angels on the London underground, I remember them, some good guys but plenty who signed up just to be intimidating and get a self-fulfillment out of being part of a tough group - plenty of stories of them making a 'citizens arrest' on people who had done nothing wrong. Why do you say what we have now isnt working? They arrest 1 person a day on terror charges, they have foiled 5 plots to murder already this year. The UK is already pressured by many groups for having the toughest anti-terror laws in the world. It has been stated resource is the main problem to making even further inroads. Encouraging civilians to engage with terrorists can only lead me to one plausible outcome which is higher civilian deaths. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm sure it was suggested that you'd have to go through some sort of application process and psych exam before being allowed to join this theoretical group, no?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I have known a fair few people growing up who worked in the city in respectable jobs that loved going out on weekends and getting into fights. They would stroll through any application. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I'm no psychiatrist, but I think the test would go deeper than "do they have a respectful job". If paedos and murderers looked like paedos and murderers, they'd all be in jail... Edited June 7, 2017 by Strudul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I used to go around with a group who liked a good scrap on a friday night. You know this is a uniquely English and our relatives (US, Australia) passtime? The Greeks are visibly shocked when they learn that we like to have a beer and a fight, and that we don't even really care win or lose, it's the taking part I was never much of a fighter, honestly, I used to stand back and just defend myself when required, but I'm a big dude so it wasn't much of an issue. Sex and violence are our true nature, to deny that is to deny our nature. All these efforts to become civilised, REPRESS US, and cause this pent up violence to explode from time to time. Anyone who works in a large modern corporate will be familiar with the psych evaluation that compares your attitude to certain events 'in the office' vs 'at home'. It turns out that many people are totally different people in their jobs. It is said that this 'being someone else' has an effect on the brain akin to the disease schizophrenia, and it's why many 'execs' burn out. Denying our violent nature and trying to be civilised is exactly this. When we're alone and we watch porn and boxing and enjoy it, then we are out in public and expected to decry those things. Madness. A balance must be found, a vent for people who have exceptionally strong base instincts must be found. When we were war-like, it was easy, send them into battle, everyone was happy! We no longer need warriors like Achilles and the Mountain, we have NO USE IN SOCIETY for people like that, yet they are stil being born, having terribly frustrating lives, no wonder they go nuts and kill everyone. The lucky ones find activities like extreme sports and mountaineering to balance themselves, but those who have no opportunity for that will be very unhappy people all their lives, probably abusers, despite not wanting to be, simply because they need to get the rage out. Bottom line: Civilisation is no good for us as a species, we need more war, it's not how we are designed (maybe we evolved too quickly?) Anyone needing further clarification on this, watch the excellent and hugely underrated movie 'American Psycho'. Edited June 7, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Of course not and I didn't suggest that at all. I have seen these psychology tests in a number of formats and seriously, you are talking some massive psychological assessment done at individual level over a period of time to properly assess someones psychiatric tendencies. Something impractical for the level of catching out someone with violent tendencies. As I said, there is a group that does this already with varying results, you just go to their webpage and put your email address in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Yes, I'm suggesting it would have to be done properly, over time, with multiple assessments, tests and training, with references from colleagues / friends, and signing lots of forms. Is it a perfect system? No, it's expensive and time consuming, but it should weed out most of the violent loons. Edited June 7, 2017 by Strudul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Yes, I'm suggesting it would have to be done properly, over time, with multiple assessments, tests and training, with references from colleagues / friends, and signing lots of forms. We already have something like this, I believe its called ......... what is it ......... oh yeah, the Police force. Im sorry but anyone who suggests a gang of vigilantes wont end up beating the wrong person or becoming a gang of their own is a bit deluded. Its not an option, its why we have trained security services. Edited June 7, 2017 by docwra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Any decent high functioning sociopath can fake there way through psych tests, i've passed many and I'm a self destructive sociopath. Any dimmwit can give them answers they want to hear. When asked why you want this, it takes someone really special to say 'I want to intimidate none whites'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Any decent high functioning sociopath can fake there way through psych tests, i've passed many and I'm a self destructive sociopath. Any dimmwit can give them answers they want to hear. When asked why you want this, it takes someone really special to say 'I want to intimidate none whites'. Few have the required self restraint to pass the practical / physical tests though. Any exams would be more complex than "are you a sociopath, yes or no?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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