ilogikal1

Right then, this was my winter prep. "detail" (which was actually more like 'a bit of a clean' than a detail this time really) so in terms of LSP I was looking for something easy to use that'll last until the sun is seen again some time in June... yes, I'm being optimistic. Having little-to-no opportunity to even wash the car whilst I'm down south for the foreseeable future I wanted something that I could apply and forget about, no maintainance and ideally something that offered some self cleaning abilities and most-but-not-really importantly offers some good beading. Because I do like beading. Ultimately I chose; This should give me ~6 months protection without any maintenance. It's the v3 CanCoat - for anyone who is not aware, the first and second versions suffered from the nozzle getting blocked before the can was finished, Gyeon reacted to these reports for v1 quickly and replaced all purchased cans free of charge only to discover that, whilst fewer, a not insignificant number of complaints that v2 did the same thing. Gyeon went away and created v3 (and again replaced all previously sold cans for free) which was claimed to have solved this issue without the need for taking any precautionary measures to prevent it (initially the response was to remove and wash the nozzle out after use, before any product dried in there, until they could fix it properly with v2. Which didn't really work -v2 that is, not cleaning the nozzle). The idea of CanCoat is simple, it's an SiO2 coating in aerosol form. Directions for usage are; prep the paint. Once properly prepared, spray CanCoat onto a microfibre cloth & wipe over the panel, or alternatively spray directly on to the panel and then wipe over for full coverage. Then, within 2 minutes (before it begins to harden), buff all streaks out of the treated panel with a dry cloth. Once the car is completely treated, allow a minimum of 1 hour before layering (if desired) and repeat the application process. Allow 24 hours for the coating to fully harden before getting wet and 7 days before using any detergents (washing it basically). An optional, sacrificial layer of Gyeon Cure can be used to help prevent water-spotting whilst CanCoat cures fully. So I set about preparing the paintwork, however both slight time constraints and major laziness meant that I had no intention of going all out - hence the lack of detailing in my detail... - with the following process; Citrus pre-wash. Wash. Left for a bit to dry, in which time it got dark and I got drunk socialised with friends. The following day I; De-tarred. Decontaminated. Twice (see the last fallout remover test post). Snow foamed. Moved into the garage. Scratches were then polished out of the rear bumper only. Paint & glass (minus the windscreen) was deep-cleaned by hand; That pad had been washed out during the paint cleansing too. Twice. That pad will never be the same again. The poor thing. Meanwhile the paintwork was given a Gyeon Prep wipe down before applying CanCoat. So a few things to note. Firstly I didn't clay on this occasion because I had no intention of polishing at all until I discovered the damage to the bumper and I didn't want to even risk inflicting any marring before sealing it with a hard wearing coating. Secondly, I had genuinely forgotten just how much I like Rejuvinate. Yes, it contains fillers as well as abrasives and chemical cleaners (hence using Prep before CanCoat) but just look at how much grime it's pulled out of the paint! Thirdly, CanCoat review. I'll start by saying that this should not be used out doors. Aside from the usual reasons why detailing (beyond the wash) outside isn't ideal, this is an aerosol; the slightest breeze is going to ruin your day one way or another. Indoor use only where you can control the environment much better is my first recommendation. My second recommendation is this; what you're dealing with here is a glass coating complete with all the required solvents that allow application, in aerosol form. That means atomised particles of SiO2. You will want to use some form of respirator for this one, if not for the solvents then for the glass coating you'll otherwise be settling in your lungs. It won't (necessary - caveat that I can't guarantee that it wont) kill you, but that can't be healthy. With that in mind, I went full on Walter White... all right, not quite full on as I didn't don a yellow romper suit, but I do have a shaved head, questionable facial hair and gloves & full on respirator were donned for this job; My third recommendation is forget the idea of spraying directly onto the panel, unless you're masking off every inch of everything you don't want to coat. Yes, it's quicker on larger panels but it's a bit of ballache trying to direct the aerosol where you want it to go and only where you want it go so you'll either be constantly wiping and buffing every surface every time you spray any CanCoat or you'll end up with a crap finish. Think of it akin to spray painting - over spray is b*tch!! V.O.E. So you've decided to apply by spraying onto the cloth first; spray it in a direction that is away from the car. Prime your cloth with extra product every time you use a fresh one - you don't need a lot for an area, but you'll want more on a dry cloth than one that you've done a few panels on. Buy more cloths. You'll need them. You know those eleventy billion cloths you've got? They're not enough. I ended up using 8. Per layer. I did three layers. That's a lot of cloths. Also, forget the idea of using one cloth to apply, refold & buff. It'll become useless for buffing long before it becomes useless to for applying so save yourself a dozen more cloths and do it separately. You should be looking at using 1 or 2 to apply and 6 to buff per layer on a Z. Furthermore, make sure both cloths are suitably folded and within reach before spraying any coating, you're aiming to finish buffing the area you're coating within ~90 seconds (IMO) of spraying the first cloth. With that in mind, work in small areas - I'd recommend no more than 1/3 of a bonnet at a time, ideally even working in 6ths. The boot lid can be done in 2 or 3 sections. The doors, rear wings, bumpers and roof should be done in 2 sections each. The front wings & A pillar trim can each be done in one. Now you remember up there I explained that v3 is designed to require no special treatment to prevent the nozzle from blocking? Well, I dispute that. Mine blocked up completely by the time I got to the fourth panel on the third and final layer - roughly just 4-41/2 hours after I started to use it. The solution is, supposedly, quite straight forward, however it should be noted that I haven't attempted this is yet (but I'll come back to that). I contacted Polished Bliss when I'd finished who, in their usual excellent service, got back to me extremely promptly with; That video basically just says turn the can upside down and press the nozzle (hard - it is quite a tough ol' aerosol to use anyway by the way) against the floor/surface until it clears. As said I've not tried this yet myself because in my determination to get the third coat done I pressed on before even contacting PB. I attempted to use another nozzle (from a can of WD40 in case you were wondering) but that didn't seem to want to go on and I had no other aerosols that I could remove the nozzle from. I attempted to clear the original nozzle with a pin but that didn't work... probably because I couldn't find a suitably sized pin to get right in there, but hey ho. I then resorted to basically catching the coating that leaked out around the nozzle (rather than through it) with the cloth. Which worked well enough, but it caused a lot of wastage, so I wouldn't recommend that frankly. Anyway, I now have considerably less left that I should have but I did get three coats on, as such the can has just been stored, blocked nozzle and all. I will see if I can get it working again when I choose to use it for something else, until then it can remain blocked. All that said (it doesn't seem to be so easy to use now having written all of that...), providing you use a bit of common sense with how and where you spray it along with being aware that the nozzle can/will still get blocked (which is no different to painting using rattle cans really - turn the can over and clear the nozzle after use and you should be fine), CanCoat is actually quite easy to use for a coating. Providing you remember all those things. I did apply a fair amount by spraying directly onto the panel, this led to the rear window in particular suffering from over spray which has taken a glass polish (an actual, proper polish, not that Auto Glym s**te that they sell as "glass polish" by the way) to almost remove about half of that over spray. From a surface that it's not designed to bond to. It would take machine polishing to remove it from paintwork, especially once it's fully cured after 24 hours. That would ruin the finish on the paintwork if you missed any at all - - this isn't a self-levelling product, so you end up with specks of coating, like a colourless dust everywhere - and it would really ruin your day if you got any on the windscreen at all! Seriously, don't spray it directly on the surface (unless the panel you're treating is stripped off the car ). So with a c**p weather providing terrible lighting it looks a bit like this when done; The lighting doesn't do it any favours, the gloss isn't as far off Gyeon Prime (which is still on the side skirts here) or Dodo Juice Infinity (on the non-polished rear bumper... which is mostly not in this picture!) as it appears - for those of you who can remember and/or be bothered to go back to the pictures of those - but it's not quite as good as those two "proper" coatings either. That may be due to over spray that I've missed though. I have also noticed at least one smear that I missed which is now fully cured until the coating fails. Which might prove to be a fair indication of when the coating has fallen off (if the car is clean enough to see it!) though, so silver clouds... or something like that. I have covered just about everything in CanCoat, some intentional, some not so much - paint, badges, headlights, door handles, wing mirror trim, door window seals, over spray on the rear window. The good news is that it doesn't mark rubber or plastic trim at all. The bad news is that it's not necessarily designed for anything other than paintwork so it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts on various surfaces. Had I not had the issue with the nozzle, I think I would have used little over half the can for three layers. I suspect with more practice I could get the usage down to (just) under half a can, but certainly not enough to get three cars out of a single can. That places costs at about £13.50 per car (plus two dozen cloths!), which for a coating is certainly reasonable. If 3 coats last 6 months, £27 for a year's protection isn't too pricey at all really, but that remains to be seen. I'm really not sure if I would buy CanCoat again though. It is easy to use, especially for a coating, but it's not as easy as it's made out to be. As you can see from my experience above there can be a lot to remember - although it has to be said most of that is common sense... hence I needed someone to tell me first . I'd quite like to have more of a play with it before writing it off entirely but at the same time I can't help but feel that all things considered a full on, all out coating is worth the small amount of extra effort for the greater results. Or, to conclude, it's a good product (and despite how negative this post feels to me as I'm writing it, it is a good product) but I may have just found the first Gyeon product that would overlook in future...

Waxoyl is very old technology these days and hasn't changed much since it's inception. There are better products in terms of application, protection, durability, finish, etc, etc. It dries out relatively quickly at which point it flakes off in sheets, it's not airtight in any way, it's a basically just lathering on a black gunk until it falls off which actually becomes a water trap and is counter productive. The Bilt Hamber Dynax range or Dinitrol is just better in every single way. Bilt Hamber is ideal for home use as it's just so easy to apply providing you can get under the car adequately.

But there are many, many better products available than Waxoyl these days.

Just to warn you, beading pictures are about to happen... a lot. Those of you who like beading shots, you are in for a real treat. Those of you who don't, you are in the wrong thread.

Just to add, I know these are 19" so 15ml might be a bit of a stretch - it's probably doable but there won't be much room for error - but you won't need anywhere near 100ml still.

No, if you take the time and care to do it well you can coat all four 18" wheels with the 15ml - it's a very thin coat that's needed. It is expensive compared to FK, you get a massive tin of 1000P that'll last a lifetime (and it has a shark on the tin! ) but you'll be applying it at least 4 times a year whereas C5 (I'll play along with GTechniq's numbering system for now, but C1, C4 & C5 are actually the same product) is applied once and it'll happily last the year, most likely much more than that too, so there's more value for money there than it first seems. If you buy the 30ml bottle, that will be more than enough to do all four wheels, all the exterior plastic trim on a Z and any metalwork too. It's very much an effort vs. cost equation - C5 is apply & forget, 1000P is apply and top-up regularly. If you want to barrels protected as well as the face of the wheels, FK becomes a bit of a chore. Gyeon Rim is considerably more economical than C5, you get 30ml for an extra 50p or so, which is easily enough for four wheels with plenty left over to apply a second coat (more to ensure coverage than anything) and probably the exhaust tips too.

TBBK is the only one who's even got close to an empty tank yet.

I thought I'd taught you better than that... I have absolutely no idea about the CC I'm afraid, I can only suggest checking that everything is connected properly at the wheel controls. Hopefully someone even remotely competent will come along and actually help you.

Just a shame there's nothing on the BBC worth twelvety pence, let alone the rest of it.

Get a coating on them - GTechniq C1/4/5 or Gyeon Rim would be my choice. FK is great, you'll get a few months protection out of it but a coating will last a year+. As for cleaner, just normal car shampoo. Before applying the coating, use a fallout remover (Car Chem Revolt is my current preference, as per my thread in the detailing section) and clay them (clay bar would be better than a cloth on wheels, for the fiddlier areas) and then an IPA wipe down followed by the coating.

I trust you polished and sealed all of those new shiny bits whilst they were waiting to go on... New wheel look very good, I do like that. In what way is broked? Won't switch on at all or won't engage after switching on? (I'm going to assume you're using it correctly... ).

Granville AND Stu? I'm surprised I'm not banned already! Well done gents.

Neither. Or rather both. They'll suggest a bit of obtuse legislation and then spend months/years bickering amongst themselves about it, generating arguments for, arguments against and then trying to persuade the general public why they are right and the others are wrong at the taxpayers expense. Only to then spend more months figuring out a precise definition of a workplace... which will be wrong and then further expense will be spent on repeating the whole process on each of those 8706 loopholes one at a time. Meanwhile, no one will give a toss what the law says and they'll do whatever they want anyway. Typical politics really.

Sadly not. And now I'm going to be (even more) disappointed every time I see that Leon.

Mother! Fer! The only two silver linings to this cloud; 1) it's on the rear bumper. Which needs respraying anyway. 2) I'm not bad with DA... ...Fixed it. One small, deep scratch and a one less noticeable scratch that isn't too deep still remains, but it's difficult to see unless you're looking for them now at least.

Costs more to import than a family of... yeah I probably shouldn't finish that sentence. I'll stick with Revolt for now.

I forgotted to add in the previous post that Ferrous Dueller comes with an adjustable trigger spray head, so you can determine the spray pattern (to a degree) by turning the nozzle at the front of the spray head. It's a minor point but yeah, just mentioning it. Right then, I am acutely aware that a number of people are eagerly anticipating finding out whether Korrosol can match, or better, the long-term market leader in Iron X and, as you can see from the picture above, I now have plenty of both so with much further ado (possibly about nothing) I will not answer that question... yet. Instead I have another question that I want to answer. CarPro currently offer no fewer than 4 (FOUR!!) fallout removers in their range; Iron X, Iron X Paste, Iron X LS and Iron X Snow Soap. I don't care about Paste. At all. So I didn't buy any of that. Iron X Snow Soap has interested slightly, but only slightly so I've only acquired a sample of that. And I've not used it. Yet. So that leaves Iron X and Iron X LS. CarPro says; So let's find out if that's true then. (The question previously referenced was 'is LS actually as good as "Classic"?' btw). So first up, Iron X "Classic" - "cherry" scented in marketing only. It reeks. The scent is similar-but-stronger in Iron X than in other products like Auto Finesse Iron Out but make no mistake, it masks nothing! I previously suggested that another product is like a rotting corpse with Battenberg in it's pockets, well Iron X is more akin to a rotting corpse in a Battenberg factory. It's unpleasant, you don't want to sniff it, spill it in enclosed (or even well ventilated!) areas and you sure as hell don't want to get any on you or your clothes. It does come in a clear bottle. It's a slightly cloudy, clear thin-gel-like liquid. The trigger spray head that comes with it is simple on/off affair with no adjustment. Iron X LS then - Lemon scented indeed. Unlike it's predecessor, LS lacks that rotting flesh stench, it's much more similar to AM Iron. It's a very chemically, peroxide-like scent masked with lemon scent. It's much more pleasant to use, you could sniff this (although not advised!) without melting your sense of smell for 3 weeks and if you get this on your clothes you're not going to be arrested whilst the police search under your floorboards for the body that produced that smell. Same bottle, same liquid, same spray head as "Classic" (I'm going to stop with that now, it just reminds me of when Coca-Cola had to very publicly admit that they got it so very, very wrong). The wheels were prepared in the same way as the last pair, surprisingly - i.e. WaxAddict shampoo wash with Wheel Woolies, & then foamed. This left me with this; and this Yes, I need to get my wheels refurbished. Still. Move on already. Anyway, Iron X did this in ~5 minutes to one wheel; Iron X LS did this in ~5 minutes to a different wheel; Rinsing occurred. With a hose. Still to lazy to get the pressure washer out. A bit of drying followed. Then I got impatient and then... Iron X LS did this to the previously Iron X'd wheel after ~5 minutes; Meanwhile Iron X did this to the previously LS'd wheel after ~5 minutes; So... er... hmmm... I... yeah. More rinsing occurred. Then I returned to the wheel that started with LS followed by Iron X, and did this; The reaction was initially both almost instant and quite strong, but it seems to largely run off leaving just the above after a few minutes. I then went back to the wheel that started with Iron X followed by LS and did this; This seemed to also react almost instantly but didn't ease off like LS did after a few minutes. Both were rinsed. Again. Back to the other wheel then - that's three hits already. Two with LS, one with Iron X - and this occurred; Four hits and still picking up fallout. This was left for as long as I could bear (it started to dry out, ~10 minutes) and then... Hit 5 and it's still turning purple! Meanwhile, on that other wheel. The one what did gone done have Iron X, Iron X LS and Iron X thrown at it; You'll notice two things here. Firstly, I've opted for a loser from a previous round to test three hits of Iron X with. Secondly, those f*****g spots haven't been shifted by Iron X2 and/or Iron X LS! The reaction here was not only emphatic as shown but also virtually instant yet again. And then for comedy value (and, because I expected much better things from Iron X, I have a litre of this stuff), I then threw hit number 5 at wheel number 1; In summary then; Iron X LS is not the same as Iron X. Iron X reacts much more strongly and this does not fade at all. LS reacts strongly at first but this quickly fades. It does not appear to be that LS runs off any quicker as there is always product on the surface of the wheel in the above photos, this seems to be because the colour runs much more freely once it's reacted. Either that ot the reaction is temporary and the colour slowly changes back. Incidentally, LS was used on the paintwork after this. It reacted, it was rinsend and W6 followed it on the paintwork. Which also reacted. That too was rinsed and Nanolex was tested on a small area. Which also reacted. Again. Conclusions; much like the previous one, I'm making a judgement call and that call is that Iron X is "better" than LS and thus LS is elimated. Like the previous one, I have more LS to confirm this, and I will. And like the previous one, I don't expect Iron X to progress much further in this test on today's performance. Iron X and Iron X LS have both massively disappointed me today. Korrosol doesn't have much to live up to at this point.

I'd be interested to see what you can come up with. In my opinion you need to focus on how long it'll last when applied, ease and cost of application and that'll determine the interest in any final product, I think. Stu, I'm planning on trying Gyeon CanCoat on mine this time round. Hopefully by the time that dies off I'll have had my wheels done and cracked the C5 open for next time they need doing.

Update then. The wheels were washed with Waxaddict shampoo and Wheel Woolies then rinsed, followed by being snow foamed & rinsed with the rest of the car the previous day. The car was not moved between that wash and the following fallout remover test. That meant I was starting with this; and this I selected today's contestants from the previously posted picture, opting for Dodo Juice Ferrous Dueller and GTechniq W6. GTechniq W6 is relatively new to the market compared to many, but is not the newest... even in my test. It comes in a fairly standard GTechniq bottle - namely a white & red coloured bottle that is completely opaque and thus you cannot actually see how much product remains. Easily remedied by picking the bottle up and feeling the weight though, but worth mentioning for those who care about such things. W6 also smells like a typical fallout remover. There's no pleasant scents or attempt to hide the smell, it's all out rotting corpse here. The trigger spray that comes with the bottle is also typical GTechniq fare - i.e. a simple "on/off" trigger with only one spray pattern. Dodo Juice Ferrous Dueller is somewhat less new to the market but is often overlooked as a less established offering. It comes in a clear bottle and is green liquid. For a fallout remover it smells positively delightful. It has a sweet scent that I've not yet placed and it doesn't have that rotting corpse undertone that most others do - you can actually take a whiff of this without it melting your face!* *This comes with the warning that I had smelt a number of other fallout removers not before this one. It's probably not going to double for an air freshener but you're probably not going to be overly bothered if you get over-spray on yourself or your clothes using this one. You certainly wont get arrested whilst the police try to find the body that you're clearly hiding according to that smell on your clothes either though... well, not because of this anyway. Onto the usage then. Ferrous Dueller did this on the first wheel, after a ~5 minute dwell; Whilst W6 did this one another wheel, after ~5 minute dwell; Both wheels were then rinsed thoroughly using the hose (because getting the pressure washer out was a little bit too much like effort today). After about 20 minutes (ish) they were slightly less wet but still far from dry. Ferrous Dueller then took the other wheel. It did this immediately after applying (plus the 10-15 seconds it took to get the camera & pics... excuse the rushed-and-therefore-not-entirely-or-at-all-in-focus photo on the right); Most of the bottom left came from the brake rotor, but there's clearly an additional reaction elsewhere too. W6 was then applied to the first wheel, which looked like this immediately after applying (plus a similar 10-15 seconds for the same reason); Which also picked up additional fallout. Both were given about 5 minutes to dwell. Which looked like this; Ferrous Dueller Which... er... yeah. There's that. W6 looked like this; Which is considerably less of a reaction, most of which was coming from the (iron) weights and some of which could be excused from missing bits with DJ FD... but maybe not. A judgement call from me, on the basis that the 2nd hit of FD generated a much stronger reaction, determines that Dodo Juice Ferrous Dueller is going through to the next round. I do have a bit more W6 (I used some on the paintwork too) so I will endeavour to confirm this decision at a later date, however I suspect that neither would make it much further based on this alone. I haven't yet written off W6 entirely, however as stated I did use this on the paintwork which was checked against a previous loser in the form of Nanolex... Nanolex reacted on all sections previously treated by W6 which suggests this was the right decision. It will be further investigated regardless though. Tune in for the next exciting episode. P.S. Curse my laptop for shutting down mid-update but thank you to whoever developed and installed the Auto Save on this forum - you, sir, have saved my wall from having a computer thrown at it!

...Expect updates.

My 2p (and I'd like change, please ) When someone recommends an indy over a dealer (on many owners forums, not just here) for competency reasons, the indy in question is usually a specialist rather than just any old non-affiliated outfit. By their nature they will know that model more than your average dealer who has to cater for a wide range of models currently on sale, let alone the historic models. I do see your point though, Dan, obviously Nissan are training people capable of working on a Z... But they also train many, many more who aren't. Why risk the chance of that one guy in x number of dealers vs. the place where (in Sly's case) all of the employees have that knowledge, exposure and experience of your particular car. With all due respect to our specialists on here, they may not be the first names that gets mentioned if you want your Ferrari F40 serviced, for example. Because I know you have one of them tucked away in your garage. The cost is usually a big reason too.

I just use the free (yes, free!) one that comes with the car... it has the side effect of making it all toasty warm in winter and nice and cool in the summer too.

It depends. If you're paying £50/litre then 140 miles is pretty bloody good. If you're paying 50p/litre, it's pretty bloody bad. Rather than quoting costs, how about using something useful like volume instead.

FK is equally brilliant on wheels as paint. EX-P will work but it won't last as long as FK, even layered.

So all we really learned here is that Easty doesn't want to pay full price for his brake lines and certain people will jump on any chance to stick the boot in, regardless of any facts? Well that's good to know then.