Ekona Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Fair enough, his loss really. Tbh I can see his point, not every previous owner is happy to be contacted and some may well relish the thought of giving the dealer a bad rep if they felt justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 That's what I thought, buy I liked the car and really need one asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Just to be clear though, he said he got it through a dealer network so he didn't buy it directly off the last owner anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Just to be clear though, he said he got it through a dealer network so he didn't buy it directly off the last owner anyway aka bought at auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 All sounds a bit strange. Why would he think the previous owner wasnt happy about something. As for an HR, I agree, I had the choice and went for the HR when I bought my roadster. Lovely cars. Look out for the spark plug service, as thats due now on 2008 cars if I remember rightly and its not automatically included in the normal P1/P2/P3 service schedule. Only problem I had engine wise was that the fan belt on the very front of the engine shredded itself every 20k miles. I had one go at 22k then another at 40k. Nissan had no idea why and said all the pulleys were aligned correctly and normally they would expect the belt to last 100k miles. First time around Nissan charged me £100 to supply & fit the belt (they took 1hr 30mins). The 2nd time around I bought a Gate`s belt (£15) and fitted it myself in about 8 minutes, including having a cup of tea. Besides that, tyres arnt cheap so if they need replacing some dealers will wack on a set of the cheapest nastiest tyres - so see whats on there. Brake pads are a very easy DIY job if they need doing. Also, I always take a photo of the MOT/logbook if I can and check online at dvla to see what all the previous MOT`s say - you can check all the mileage adds up and see if any advisories have been issued at any point etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Seems dodgy as TBH a test drive sells the Z if its in good condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy.farrow7 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Seems a bit strange, but fair play to you for walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus200Club Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hello Jamie Thank you for taking the time to post your views on your recent visit to the Plus200Club. Www.plus200club.co.uk Just to go over some of your points: I am always reluctant to "just go for a test drive" reason being is that I have taken a lot of time/care/money and sweat to ensure that I am selling a car that as far as i am concerned is 100%. The test drive is always the final stage because as far as I am concerned you are not going to be able to fault the car, as I have prepared the car to a very high standard both cosmetically & mechanically. So I always ensure that the customer is more than happy with the metalwork as well as the paperwork before they drive which ever vehicle they are interested in. At the end of the day i am not a test drive service, I'm here to help you buy a car and I work on the theory that the car sells itself. There is no pressure tactics, no complicated sales process. My motto would be: train hard, fight easy. I presented you with the original service book and all the paperwork that was provided to me when I purchased the vehicle (v5, current mot, DirectGov mot history printout & 2 keys). And as you quite rightly pointed out there was NO reference to coolant changes,brake fluid changes, or clutch changes mentioned in the service book. And as I pointed out there is NO space or provision to record this info in the nissan service book. There is nothing I can do about that I'm afraid. The most any dealer can hope for when we purchase a car to sell is the current v5, mot & service book. Anything else is purely a bonus, and believe me it always feels like Christmas when I find a wedge of receipts & paperwork. It gives me a warm glow from deep down inside. So I presented you with everything I had, everything I needed to have, everything I should have to enable the sale of the car. You are also 100% correct when you say that things went "down hill" when you went to "write down the Reg number so you could check the insurance etc". Reason being is you actually took out your mobile phone to take a picture of the previous keepers details. This I do have a problem with. A big problem. I knew exactly what you were doing and that's why I stopped you. It could be an DPA infringement (I don't know, not fussed). But I'm not comfortable with someone I don't know, taking pictures of the sensitive documents that are key to the value of my investment. The best way I can explain it to you is: all my cars are my life's savings, my hard earned money and I need to protect them (for me and any potential customer). Just like I'm very sure you would object to someone taking a picture of your debit card and all its details. What could they do with them if they did have a picture of my debit card? I don't know, I'm not up to speed with how to be a credit card fraudster, but prevention is better than cure. I'd rather be safe than sorry. So no pictures of document. (It's always been the same rule where ever I have worked, but now the buck stops with me, so I will protect my investments). Same thing with registration numbers. That is why they are all hidden on my adverts, so I don't start getting speeding fines/parking tickets come through just because someone has decided to clone my car. Anybody is more than welcome to request a reg number to check insurance etc. I've never had to "allow" a potential new keeper speak to the previous keeper before they buy a car, I was the one selling you the car, not the previous keeper. And I am the person who is responsible, not the previous keeper. If you want to speak to the previous keeper, feel free to buy a car privately not from a dealer. Then you can ask all those type of questions till your blue in the face. They can say whatever they like to you. Because if you do then later find out that you had been told fibs, there is not really a lot you can really do about it. Where if I had told you a fib, it's a different story. And as for "I must have something to hide" (feel free insert whatever conspiracy theory you like or indeed any negative slogan you wish, dealers=steelers etc etc). I've not got anything to hide, and at no point do I act like I do have something to hide. Check out the advert, check out the large amount of exact info I have listed about each and everyone of my cars. Check out the large amount of HQ photos(often in the region of 80 per car) I publish on each and every car. Note the lack of the usual cliches that normally populate car adverts, no where will you find broad statement like "full service history", "mint", "like new" and all the other BS you normally find. Everything is exact, everything is structured, "it was serviced then & then", tyres are "this & that", it features this "this that & the other". I try give you all the info and more that you need to make a decision before you get to see the car in the flesh. Indeed it more than often becomes a tick box exercise for my customers, they arrive, check out the car, check the paperwork. "Yes Neil, it's exactly as you described, if it drives like it should I'll buy it". Simple & easy. I don't want the hassle. Train hard, fight easy. I feel I covered your main points. At Plus200Club I've tried to do business differently to other dealers you may of experienced, I try to do it differently, I try to do it better. But I am perfectly aware that I can't please 100% of the people, 100% of the time. That's life. Thank you for taking the time to read this, as there is always at least two sides to every story. Kindest regards Neil @Plus200Club 01707 874 045 www.plus200club.co.uk 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Reasonable reply. J17, take note! I'd disagree with not doing a test drive first, though. I had that once on a dealer selling an Esprit V8, a car I could happily have seen myself in but needed to know if the drive was any good before getting too excited. Dealer wanted to do the deal before a drive, so I simply walked away and bought a 350Z instead. That said, it's your business to run how you wish, and no-one can argue against that. If you're happy to miss out on sales by not doing the drive first, and are still making a good living, then I reckon that's the best of both worlds for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bems Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Good response & fair points made but I'm with Ekona too on the test drive. If I like a car then I want to drive it first as a dealer I'm pretty sure you can gauge most people in their intent to buy or not so I can't see why you wouldn't do a test drive if they didn't seem like tyre kickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Welcome to the forum Neil. I like this reply from a dealer but I would concur that a test drive is probably the biggest part of the sale. I am not sure what your setup is like though. If your on a test drive, is there some else to help out with other potential sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponsonby Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sellers website looks like they do actually care about the quality of cars they are selling - mainly one owner, full history, lots of decent quality pictures. Plus the seller cares enough to post a response on this forum. May be worth going back for another look and less heated discussion if you were happy with the car. Personally I fall out with salesmen when they insist I go on a test drive before we can discuss the deal. I want to know the deal before I waste my time on a test drive and have to be subjected to the usual sales patter that I have heard so many times before......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No point agreeing a deal if you drive the car and don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Have to dis-agree on the sellers test drive point. Nearly all the cars ive bought, the sales man cant wait to get you in the car itself and out on the road. The reason being is that 9 times out of 10 once you have driven the car, you will want to buy it. Also, it makes you a captive audience for the sales person to work on whilst you are in the car. Same sort of reason as to why they always give you a coffee to drink when you arrive - they know you have to sit there spending 10mins at least nursing that coffee which gives them 10mins of your time. When I bought my current BMW, I had spent days doing all the research, deciding what car I wanted, what to look out for, etc. etc. etc. I had pretty much decided on this exact model and just needed to drive one to make my decision concrete. I called my local BMW dealers and found one which had the model I wanted and I booked an appointment. When I arrived, all I wanted was a test drive just to tick the final box to confirm my decision to buy, then I could agree a deal. However, the salesman had other ideas and we ended up spending about 40minutes going through all sorts of pointless things such as "how much are you looking to spend", "can you afford this", "have you considered a new car", "what spec are you looking for". etc. etc. etc. etc.. I sat there getting more and more frustrated and very nearly walked away several times. My time is precious and if im at a BMW dealer for a pre-arranged appointment to view/test drive a £26k car then you can be d*mn sure I can afford it and I wouldnt be looking at that particular car if it wasnt the spec/price/age/condition I wanted. As for speaking to previous owners, i really dont see what the problem is with that. The previous owner is the person who has most experience with that car. They know what they have had done to it and can easily answer questions such as "has it had the plugs done" or "has it had a clutch" etc. etc. Unless the car has had significant problems, surely a positive conversation with a previous owner can only help sell that car? Other than that, sounds like this dealer really spends their time on their cars which is refreshing to see. Edited July 9, 2015 by rabbitstew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus200Club Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hi Everyone I'll try to keep this post short. Varied responses to the event. Which is fair enough. I think it shows that there is no right or wrong. Some people prefer the process followed different to others. I'm for want of a better term: a one man band. At the end of the day I don't need to follow the 7 steps to selling, I make the judgement call whichever way I see fit at the time, based on the information that is presented to me at the time. A few of you have a bee in your bonnet about "test drives first" being the right way, from my varied years of experience at different brands and employers. No where does test drive feature early in the sales process. And from the way you describe it, you were buying from main dealers. As above, I'm a one man band. And maybe you've forgotten about the last time you ever sold a car privately, how many times did you have to wash it before someone turned up? How much fuel did you have to put into it for the numerous test drives you did? All of that costs money and time, now if your in my situation, times that amount by 20. That is a massive cost whichever way you work it out. I'm a small business spending my money, I'm not an employee in a part manufacture owned company spending someone's else's money. So it is always highly possible that my actions will differ from my suit wearing counter parts, I'm the silly sausage that gets dirty under the car polishing the exhaust up! On that note I'm off folks. Thank you for your time. That's all I have to say on the matter. If you ever want to contact me you can get hold of me through the details on the website. Kindest regards Neil @Plus200Club 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Honestly I totally appreciate that this comes across as 'dodgy'......for me though this is a dealer trying to be different and talking from the heart For me you'll get more out of this guy than you will from many of the chumps out there. Disagree with the test drive point but meh. Go with instinct Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Oh and Neil.....good on you for taking the time to post Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIGWEL Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Plus200club seems to me like a decent sort of bloke. And i would rather buy from a one man band than a dealership. Hes the guy heres the car. And im sure if any problems arose he would do his best to help as its his reputation at stake . Im a one man band also but in a different trade and i go out of my way to keep my customers happy to ensure theyre pleased and helps generate extra business and reccomendation . Plus200club has come on here to express his thoughts which i admire. If i were nearer to him i would definately do a deal if he had a car i was interested in. Those are my thoughts anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Neil, I think you're right, this thread needs to be kept short. To be honest, I'm surprised firstly that you even found it as that must have taken some searching, and also that you responded. My intention was never to name either you or your business or even have anyone identify the car you have for sale, in all of my comments I only ever referred to you as the dealer (how on earth did you find this?) so that this didn't turn petty and you had no need to defend yourself. I was simply replying to the people who kindly offered me assistance in my decision making process on whether or not to pay extra and go for the HR model or save some cash and opt for an older model. If this thread rages on and on, I suspect at least one of us will say something we regret and that makes us look daft, so let’s not let that happen. Your second post above highlights that you are a one man band and that taking people for test drives comes at a price. I'm sure we all appreciate that - and frankly no one likes a messer and no doubt you encounter them regularly which must be frustrating, however I don't think you'll get much sympathy in this respect as that is just part and parcel of the industry in which you have decided to trade. You have to appreciate that if you want to sell a car, you often have to work at it, maybe even wash it a couple of times and your prices should accommodate for some form of expense for such things. In my job I spend several thousands of pounds a year just getting into the office, and that's before I even start a days work, it's just part of it, yes it eats into income/profits but that's life - can't have your cake and eat it, you spend money to make money. With regards to your initial comment in this thread, in the interest of fairness I would like to respond – and hopefully without looking like I am just trying to argue. First of all, I genuinely like your car. It's in great condition and you basically had a guaranteed sale that morning. If you had a folder full of receipts with it, fully documenting its past, a cash deal would have been done there then. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. I've bought cars in the past and regretted it so I mentioned contacting the former keeper ensuring I went into this deal with my eyes open, but for whatever reason you didn’t seem to want to assist me. You mention that you presented me with everything you had – which is everything you should need to show me and from that and effectively that alone I should have been able to determine whether to purchase the car. I’m sorry but that’s just not how it works – you are effectively asking me to buy the car in good faith despite the fact that you know next about its past. Considering we are not talking about a brand new, never been used car, I would be crazy not to at least try to satisfy myself that I had done everything possible to safeguard myself against buying a car that could be problematic or may have a large bill looming. There is far more to good car maintenance than just a service stamp in a book and as the former keeper is quite local, it is only logical that I would make mention that I would feel happier at least trying to have a brief chat with them. If I had attempted to but could not manage to locate them, then at least I had tried and could then feel better about making a decision and moving forward with a purchase or not. Better to try than to be left kicking yourself for not bothering. There are also a few facts that I cannot overlook. Firstly you imply that you knew ‘what I was up to’ when I attempted to note down the reg number so that I may contact my insurer. Yes, of course I was going to this by taking a photograph of the top half of the V5C document – I don’t carry a note pad and pen around with me, that’s just how things are done in this day and age. I can categorically also say that I when I was about to do this, I said to you before actually doing anything that I would also be interested in noting down the former keepers address and attempt make contact with them, at no point did I ever attempt to be anything but straight with you so I do not appreciate you insinuating otherwise. You also said in your response that you’ve never had to allow a buyer to speak with a previous keeper, however when I was walking out of your office, you said to me that in past deals when you have given over past keepers information it had never ended well. Again, not wishing to make a big deal of this but let’s both be honest. I do agree with some of your points, your website does indeed host dozens of photos of the cars and this is very useful and all of us car buyers would thank you for this, however as no doubt we’ve all seen pictures of items taken from flattering angles or perhaps, for instance, with a big dent just out of shot, no buyer would ever rely on photos alone. You also state that we should check out the large amount of exact info you list about the car, but again, the wording is just a sales pitch that I would expect to see about any car for sale and adds can be misleading – sadly the more info you add, the more chance you have of getting it wrong. For instance your car is a 2008 model and twice within your add it states that it has had just 1 previous owner from new. This implies that you must have acquired it from the original purchaser. Unfortunately a few lines later it goes on to state that the last owner had it from February 2010. When I came to see you, you said it had had two recorded owners before you and that you got as part of a deal from another organisation. Does this mean that it has been though 4 sets of hands in reality? I genuinely do not believe you are attempting to mislead customers, it is simply a not very well worded advertisement as you told me about where the car came from when I asked you. It does however reveal a very good argument as to why buyers take adds with a pinch of salt… My point is that photos and dozens of lines of text do not sell cars and can often lead you into thinking you are buying something that you are not. Therefore I just wanted to go see the car, ensure it drove nicely and then satisfy myself that I was buying the best car that I could with the limited budget that I had. You commented in your initial response on here that you try to give all the info and more that a buyer would need to make a decision. As has been agreed throughout this thread, you have a unique way of doing business but I think it’s clear from what happened between us and the comments from others that maybe this style could be adapted to ensure customers get what they want – which will result in you then getting what you want. If someone asks for a test drive or to be allowed to have a quick chat with a previous owner, then maybe it’s best to try to be a bit more accommodating rather than become so defensive as it just appears that you have something to hide. As 370Ad says above, a test drive sells a Z. A few photos and a description does not, these are just tools to get people through the door. Twice you mentioned ‘train hard, fight easy’. I don’t want to have to fight to give someone my money, I want them to make it as easy for me to hand it over as possible or I will just walk away – there’s plenty more Zeds in the sea and all that but as you’ve mentioned it, it kind of did feel more like a fight than a nice smooth process. It was not my intention but I suspect I’ve gone on for far too long now so I’ll call it a day. It is not for me to tell you how to run your business, clearly I have an opinion on - take it as constructive criticism - it but ultimately it’s your business and you are free to run it how you see fit. I would reiterate that it’s a nice car you have for sale, a car I would have been extremely happy to purchase, and quite frankly to still purchase, assuming I decide I am happy with a lack of history – but if that bridge is now considered burned then so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) ^^^ Check this guy out first sentence in his post 'this thread needs to be kept short ' Wright's a flipping novel Edited July 9, 2015 by StevoD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrzed Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Oh !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sorry, what I meant was lets just say our bit and then be done with it, rather than just keeping going on and on with hundreds of posts. Seems saying my bit lasted longer than I had expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 OK enough said on this now. Good luck with your search Jay Kay and start a new thread when you have made a purchase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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