My 911 (996 Carrera 4) - (Now Sold - pg 7)

[marzman]

Hey all,

 

So my 'zed money' is burning a hole in my pocket and i cant seem to stay off Autotrader.

 

I've got a bit of a hankering for a 911 at the moment. I've never really been that bothered by them, but i feel it's a box that i have to tick sooner rather than later.

 

I'm not really a huge fan of the 996 models (with the fried egg headlights), but these are affordable for me now. Budget of around £10k i could get into a sub-100k miler. Question is, should I?

 

Alternatively, i've been toying with the idea of selling my Range Rover Sport, and if i did that then i could get into an early 997 which seem to start at around £17k. This is the more tempting option for me as i've heard they're a bit more reliable than the 996, but the depreciation on one of these is probably likely to cancel out the extra maintenance costs of the 996.

 

What do you reckon folks? Does anyone have any experience of driving or owning a 996? Financially this is a much more attractive proposition for me, but I dont want to do it if i'm likely to have a bad experience!

Edited September 11, 2014 by marzman

[leonk]

What happened to investing in property? On a serious note, there is a Porsche specialist in Knutsford that will do pre purchase inspections.

http://www.sportsandclassic.com/index.php?page=about

I nearly bought a 997 before the E type and Ekona was great taking time to pm me loads of helpful info.

[Dblock]

Firstly you will get the standard responses ohhh a 996 old 911 thats gonna cost you. I'm sorry to break it to these people (like they ever listen) but no it ain't. Typically Porsche/German/Vag efficiency means thats parts are used from super old cars and get updated all the time so there are lots of parts around and they are cheap. E.g. lets say a part you need, unlike a normal car where you go straight to dealer or ebay with Porsche check out their exploded diahgrams and check which part number you need. Phone Porsche up for parts as they aren't that bad then there is specialised traders. Imagine like 20 zmanalexs for Porshce and ebay and america and ebay.de and for any consumables Euro car parts. Brake discs, pads etc aslong as you get the right manufacturer its OEM spec!

 

I was also actually wanting a 911 but really a c2 spec didn't seem to jump out at me. But the 2000 onwards I think got more powerful and better engines. C4's have 4 wheel drive.

 

I think they had some problems with the IMS or RMS or something too and the IMS fix is a good bit to put right about £1k IF you have it. I haven't drove one but my brother drove a c4s ages ago when they where new. He said it was nice but prefers his 986.

 

Also fuel and running costs aren't that bad. The 911 is a great daily that won't cost you much. My brothers 986 3.2s is on 160k miles and counting. He wants to do 200k before he sells its, but who will buy one with 200k miles on it . The Porsches in general will shrug off 100k miles and still drive like new if taken care of.

 

Exhaust sound is funny but you get used to it and can be nice. Great cruiser and it's a 911 so a great car. Also you don't need to be all sensitive with it as working on a Porsche is easier than working on most cars bar Mercedes. Very logically made and easy to swap out parts if needed and as above parts are easy to come by.

[350 Russ]

I personally would give the 996 a wide birth, there have been quite a few well documented issues of them having a porous engine block and leaking liners. Porsche may make some fantastic engines but they had an off day with this one.

[Ekona]

Some parts are relatively cheap, some are just ridiculously expensive. Depends on what bits (brakes especially seem to be a tad pricey, comparatively). The 996 did not have any carry over parts from super old 911s. Have a look here for an idea of costs for various bits.

 

If I was buying a 996 (or 997.1, for that matter), then I'd go for a good condition one with high miles. Much less chance of IMS explosions that way, as if it hasn't happened already then it probably won't. If the IMS goes, then you're looking at around £7k to £10K to fix. RMS is a just a seal that might leak a bit, you can get this sorted when the clutch gets changed for a couple of hundred quid. There are still D-chunk risks on the early M96 engines, but that's pot luck and nothing you can do about it. A full inspection including checks for bore scoring would be a must, for me. Have a read of this website and see about IMS/D-chunk issues for yourself (covers 996 + 997 engines).

 

As a drive, the 997.1 is a better car than the 996, but as you say will also suffer depreciation. I'd be tempted to go for the 996 and just enjoy it for what it is, which is a very capable sports coupe.

[Dblock]

Would you like to put money on that fact? Porsches part numbers are very simple of its starts with 993 it comes from a 993. 996 from a 996. 996 parts can be used on the 986 also etc. look up the parts catalogue.

 

Also no one uses design 911 unless they are a chump with too much money.

[Dblock]

Also lol at a couple hundred quid for thr ims. It's about £800-£1500 depending on parts and who you use.

 

Lastly brakes aren't too bad. If you get them from a steal your an idiot but from Eurocarparts get textar ones which is OEM spec and it's not that bad tbh.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Dblock

[Leosille]

IMO you should get the 997 I think the 996 looks dated. Or maybe the cayman could be an option not sure?

[grahamc]

993 or classic 911 would be my choice, but it depends what you are after from the car.... personally, I dont like dealing with Porsche. Stuck-up idiots working there, one of many reasons why I ended up with the GTR.... "no Sir, you cannot start the car, I must" - porsche salesman. Aston dealers were rather good

[GIXXERUK]

Common faults - ims, rms, brittle leaking coolant tank, brakes but this is mainly due to corrosion on the rear of the discs as the cars aren't used enough, tyres can get flat spot due to the same reason as the brakes, bore scoring. radiators and condensors due to no protection behind the grills ( i fitted wire mesh)

Parts range from ridiculous to reasonable, you need to shop around

Drive wise they ate very planted and lovely power delivery

My advice would be to spend some time on 911uk forum and get a feel for the car

 

I have just sold my 996 after 3 and a half years, I had a coolant tank on warranty and I did the pads and discs all round in that time

The pse is awesome if you can get a car with one, the Bose system is crap as is the sat nav so don't pay a premium for ether as you will rip it out

The 997 is a nicer place to be and more refined but you pay for that and then comes the dilemma of .,, 997 or 996 turbo ?

the boxster, cayman and 997 ( except from 07 on iirc) have the same engine, the turbo doesnt, it has the m96 block, much stronger but other problems arise, actuators, rusted turbo bolts, there are generic problems with all cars

my 370 insurance was cheaper !

Hth

 

Paul

 

Ps unless it's a very early car you can do an amberectomy and get rid of the fried egg headlights, costs nothing to do

 

 

 

 

 

and back to the fold with ............

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2014 by GIXXERUK

[Commander]

IMO you should get the 997 I think the 996 looks dated.

 

lol - but they all look the same!

[Bockaaarck]

996 turbo or 997 if your budget will allow, I have considered both.......but then I've also considered a TVR Tuscan 4.0 Speed Six, so you probably shouldn't trust my judgement too much

[Ekona]

Would you like to put money on that fact? Porsches part numbers are very simple of its starts with 993 it comes from a 993. 996 from a 996. 996 parts can be used on the 986 also etc. look up the parts catalogue.

 

Also no one uses design 911 unless they are a chump with too much money.

D911 are very competitive, for most parts. Compare them with Porscheparts if you like. I've bought from both, as well as direct from OPCs and local indies. I don't believe I ever said they were the cheapest, it was more to use as a guide. If you would like to be helpful enough to share a source that's as comprehensive and easy to browse as the D911 website, then that would be great: I'm sure a chump with too much money like myself would find it a valuable resource.

 

Maybe I was overstating that there are no carry over parts from the earlier cars to the 996, but any parts there are are inconsequential and I've yet to come across any. However, if you'd like to produce a concise list of the interchangeable parts then feel free to share them. Bearing in mind that the 993 was essentially the same car as the original produced 50 years ago, the 996 is the same as the 997, and the 991 is only the third true 'new' 911 ever made. Look that up if you like.

 

 

Also, try reading my posts correctly next time: RMS is a couple of hundred quid, as that's the Rear Main Seal between block and 'box. The IMS is the InterMediate Shaft, which connects the two halves of the engine together and it's the bearing on this that fails. That's what costs mega bucks if it does. You can change it to the later ones if you wish, but there's still no guarantee it will not fail due to the design. This is why Porsche engineered it out of the 9A1 engines, and why a gen2 is a safe bet long term.

[Ekona]

But hey, what would I know? I only spent 12 months researching 911s before purchasing mine, and then another 3.5 years running one.

[GIXXERUK]

Rms - not a bigee

Ims - youre ringing hartech for a rebuild, sourcing an engine or parting out on eBay

[WhackyWill]

I agree with Ekona, I had a 996 for 2 years and had no problem at all apart from a passenger

 

window regulator to be replaced and the usual service, great car, full service history is a must

 

don't be too worried about high mileage one, if its well looked after. Get a Porsche specialist to

 

to give it an inspection before purchase, I used Chris Turner Porsche to look after it.

 

Yes' would get another one.

[HARMLU]

But hey, what would I know? I only spent 12 months researching 911s before purchasing mine, and then another 3.5 years running one.

I think it's a case of google vs knowledge

 

 

[WhackyWill]

A Porsche is more likely to be "keyed" that your Zed,

 

Mine was done twice by some scrotes..!!

[docwra]

A mate of mine is selling a pretty mint Navy Blue one with GT3 rims, hes just had the gearbox overhauled, new MPSS on the back, sports exhaust, full service etc. - really nice car

 

And he would take £8K for it I reckon as hes itching to go skiiing ............. you know you want to

[Dblock]

But hey, what would I know? I only spent 12 months researching 911s before purchasing mine, and then another 3.5 years running one.

 

Alright calm down. Do you work on your 911 and other peoples?

[Dblock]

Also what if you spend close to 20k on a 996 turbo? Those things fairly cheaply can be modded to 600+bhp. They are a little silly though.

 

Also ekona why would I produce a list. You seem annoyed that you got some stuff wrong. It's all good we learn something new everyday. Be happy.

[marzman]

What happened to investing in property? On a serious note, there is a Porsche specialist in Knutsford that will do pre purchase inspections.

http://www.sportsand....php?page=about

I nearly bought a 997 before the E type and Ekona was great taking time to pm me loads of helpful info.

 

The property investment is still very much on the cards... if i get a 996

 

To be honest all im thinking of doing is getting one for 6-8 months this year and then getting rid, just so i can tick it off my bucket list and then throw all my money into the property plan. I think a 996 is going to satisfy my requirements, and after the feedback on this thread im not so scared of owning one now (i'll do a lot of research though before the time.)

 

Excellent shout on the Knutsford garage - it's about 1 mile from my office! I'm going to swing by on Friday and have a talk with them.

 

 

 

A mate of mine is selling a pretty mint Navy Blue one with GT3 rims, hes just had the gearbox overhauled, new MPSS on the back, sports exhaust, full service etc. - really nice car

 

And he would take £8K for it I reckon as hes itching to go skiiing ............. you know you want to

 

Don't do it to me...!!!

 

I need to wait until the end of March before i can get one as i've got a huge project at work so doing lots of miles until then, so i'd rather put these on the RRS than a Porsche. Out of interest though whats the mileage and have you got any pics? Not sure on the blue though so will be interested to see.

[marzman]

Common faults - ims, rms, brittle leaking coolant tank, brakes but this is mainly due to corrosion on the rear of the discs as the cars aren't used enough, tyres can get flat spot due to the same reason as the brakes, bore scoring. radiators and condensors due to no protection behind the grills ( i fitted wire mesh)

Parts range from ridiculous to reasonable, you need to shop around

Drive wise they ate very planted and lovely power delivery

My advice would be to spend some time on 911uk forum and get a feel for the car

 

I have just sold my 996 after 3 and a half years, I had a coolant tank on warranty and I did the pads and discs all round in that time

The pse is awesome if you can get a car with one, the Bose system is crap as is the sat nav so don't pay a premium for ether as you will rip it out

The 997 is a nicer place to be and more refined but you pay for that and then comes the dilemma of .,, 997 or 996 turbo ?

the boxster, cayman and 997 ( except from 07 on iirc) have the same engine, the turbo doesnt, it has the m96 block, much stronger but other problems arise, actuators, rusted turbo bolts, there are generic problems with all cars

my 370 insurance was cheaper !

Hth

 

Paul

 

Ps unless it's a very early car you can do an amberectomy and get rid of the fried egg headlights, costs nothing to do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely LOVING that Gix, wow. Love those rear lights.

 

 

And Dan and DBlock, despite your differences you've both given me really useful info. A question for you (so i can gauge the perceived risk) - on the link that Leon sent me the garage says:

 

"Replace the weak factory IMS bearing on your Boxster or 996 with a Sports and Classic upgraded version. we can replace it at the same time as a clutch replacement or as a stand alone job. We recommend an inspection at 40000 mile intervals. £699+VAT"

 

Would you look to have the inspection and possibly do this work upfront, or risk it and not do it? I guess the answer will be to have an inspection and if it looks like it's on the way out then get it done beforehand.

[R35LEE]

Get a good 996 and you won't regret it We do rebuild engines for them but like it has been said on here some well taken care of examples can see 100k+ miles off. Get one with good service history and if you get one that has recently had a rebuild by a reputable company then look at thatvtoo. PM sent

[Dblock]

Would you like to put money on that fact? Porsches part numbers are very simple of its starts with 993 it comes from a 993. 996 from a 996. 996 parts can be used on the 986 also etc. look up the parts catalogue.

 

Also no one uses design 911 unless they are a chump with too much money.

D911 are very competitive, for most parts. Compare them with Porscheparts if you like. I've bought from both, as well as direct from OPCs and local indies. I don't believe I ever said they were the cheapest, it was more to use as a guide. If you would like to be helpful enough to share a source that's as comprehensive and easy to browse as the D911 website, then that would be great: I'm sure a chump with too much money like myself would find it a valuable resource.

 

Maybe I was overstating that there are no carry over parts from the earlier cars to the 996, but any parts there are are inconsequential and I've yet to come across any. However, if you'd like to produce a concise list of the interchangeable parts then feel free to share them. Bearing in mind that the 993 was essentially the same car as the original produced 50 years ago, the 996 is the same as the 997, and the 991 is only the third true 'new' 911 ever made. Look that up if you like.

 

 

Also, try reading my posts correctly next time: RMS is a couple of hundred quid, as that's the Rear Main Seal between block and 'box. The IMS is the InterMediate Shaft, which connects the two halves of the engine together and it's the bearing on this that fails. That's what costs mega bucks if it does. You can change it to the later ones if you wish, but there's still no guarantee it will not fail due to the design. This is why Porsche engineered it out of the 9A1 engines, and why a gen2 is a safe bet long term.

 

Thats the thing. Design911 can charge that since its website is slick and easy to use. Pelicanparts from the US is great, porsch-apart, mr auto I think?, Fraiserpart and for brake discs, pads etc ECP's rule. But they aren't as easy to use as d911. You have got more money than me I'm the first to admit it hence why I use cheaper places that are harder to use. I have no shame in that.

 

Got a few others if you want?

 

Also marzman get the ones with the aero kit. They looks cool.