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Good points well made on here - all Ill say is that while I dont remember any lessons at school about accepting people who are different, my generation are far more accepting of non-whites, homosexuals, the disabled and people with learning difficulties than my Dads or his Dads ever were. 

Whether this is taught in schools or not (and I think its essential that it is) one would hope that the trend Ive experienced is going to continue regardless. 

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Chances are I can see Boris collapsing on the whole thing anyway under pressure from all the religious groups, so it's probably going to be a non-event anyway. 

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Sorry to go off topic, but Trans are Gay so kinder still ok and interesting study below

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph

 

Then was found to be less convincing............  

Is it possible the AI is still correct in identifying its mark, however knows before the subject knows rendering the results as a fail?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/05/ai_gaydar/

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2 hours ago, docwra said:

Good points well made on here - all Ill say is that while I dont remember any lessons at school about accepting people who are different, my generation are far more accepting of non-whites, homosexuals, the disabled and people with learning difficulties than my Dads or his Dads ever were. 

Whether this is taught in schools or not (and I think its essential that it is) one would hope that the trend Ive experienced is going to continue regardless. 

Thats very true, but it maybe because we have a much more diverse population these days. I know when I was at school there were only 2 black kids in the entire school and 2 Chinese kids. Even though it was a rough school, they didnt get bullied and were just accepted. I think older generations like our parents very often frowned upon a lot of stuff just because that's how they were bought up.

 

With regards to the gender stuff, I've noticed my other half recently seeming to encourage my youngest lad to like "girly" stuff. It started with a pink scooter she got (apparently he picked it over a blue one - fair enough). Then a pink barbie bike (again he apparently picked it). Next she bought him a unicorn nightie to wear to bed, and then all these pink unicorn toys started to appear. When I made a comment that surely a boy doesnt wear a pink nightie, he can wear pyjamas like my eldest lad does, she replied "he can wear what he wants etc...". Then she wanted to decorate his bedroom pink and get a barbie castle bed for him (as he "apparently" likes it). That idea has now changed to a rainbow theme, which means his room will look like a gay pride march.  The lad is actually very hench for his age, loves climbing, rugby, peppa pig, building things, hitting things, trains and all the usual boys stuff, so whether or not he actually likes pink stuff and barbie castles who knows, but I do feel my other half is trying to influence him. When ive spoken about it to her, she says "so what if he does turn out to be gay when he`s older?". It honestly makes no difference to me at all if he decides when he`s older he`s gay or not, but I feel at just 3 years old maybe a boy should be treated like a boy.  Our eldest lad has always had boys clothes, boys pyjamas, a blue bedroom, boys bikes, scooters etc.  so im not sure whats going on. Its not just me thinking "boys = blue and girls = pink", but maybe im reading into it more than it is?

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Thats interesting mate, almost sounds like your other half is trying to steer him in that direction rather than he is naturally going that way. 
My view has always been to bring boys up as boys and girls as girls but not to discourage them from anything thats generally considered to "belong" to the other gender; although we are a lot more accepting and progressive these days its a lot easier to conform, at least until you can defend yourself for the choices you make. 

Given the choice if theres nothing else in it wouldnt we all rather take the path of least resistance? 

 

 

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19 hours ago, SuperStu said:

Please elaborate on the bad influences of gender.

 

Unsure of the question, but il try to answer. Gender is fine and I believe binary, anything else is a mental state. 

 

By presenting Pride parades as a positive lifestyle choice, when actual fact it isn't. If everyone choose to live their lives in the same way, the human population would die out in a single generation. 

 

By presenting that relationship with 3 women is a positive healthy surrounding for a child, where one non binary adult is in a relationship with one and have sex with another all under the same roof. To which sex is presented as not being exclusive or something to hold precious. To then later if that young girl brings home a lad one night, another lad another night, then another the following how are the parents in a position to advise against it? 

 

Trans people in sport is a bad thing, how can a trans women take pride in winning against people that were born as women? Trans men do less well in athletics, and if gender was actually fluid crossover stats would yield a similar success rate but it doesn't. 

Edited by davey_83

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When there is a status change, ie a change in the curriculum it's not unreasonable to ask for the back up to show it's needed. 

 

When the technical guys come out of the wind tunnel and present their new front wing will increase down force without any impact to drag. They are asked to present their data to implement change against the old front wing. Crude example, but the burden is on those wishing to implement change not those who already align with the current fixture. 

 

Semantics aside I've asked a very reasonable question, to which I've heard waffle mixed with delays and ultimately a question to my question. All of which build its own picture, in the words of Peter Jones - I'm out. 

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4 hours ago, davey_83 said:

 

Unsure of the question, but il try to answer. Gender is fine and I believe binary, anything else is a mental state. 

 

By presenting Pride parades as a positive lifestyle choice, when actual fact it isn't. If everyone choose to live their lives in the same way, the human population would die out in a single generation. 

 

By presenting that relationship with 3 women is a positive healthy surrounding for a child, where one non binary adult is in a relationship with one and have sex with another all under the same roof. To which sex is presented as not being exclusive or something to hold precious. To then later if that young girl brings home a lad one night, another lad another night, then another the following how are the parents in a position to advise against it? 

 

Trans people in sport is a bad thing, how can a trans women take pride in winning against people that were born as women? Trans men do less well in athletics, and if gender was actually fluid crossover stats would yield a similar success rate but it doesn't. 

The question was straight forward. It’s a challenge to your post, a page previously, about why education on gender is good and bad. However, I’ll be more explicit, so it’s clear. What specifically is the “bad” information that someone being educated about gender issues should not be exposed to?

 

Despite not understanding the question, there are three paragraphs about pride parades, 3 women and sport. Each a gossamer thin attempt to create a diversionary debate about anything but the topic in hand. Not only is it conflating gender education with sexuality, two entirely separate issues, the arguments are also contradictory.

 

You first posit the matter of pride parades as a ‘legitimate’ concern about human procreation (where it’s demonstrable that the Earth’s population is dramatically expanding). Yet the next paragraph is about the need to “advise against” the girl who brings different boys home to have sex with. Which problem is gender education causing, too much procreation or not enough? It can’t be both.

 

Next on this tour of other concerns, we’re on to sporting matters. At hand now is fair competition. Luckily there’s only one thing that makes sport unfair, gender education. When in reality, all manner of exceptional athletes are born genetically different to others. You only need to look for the number of four foot tall basketball players in the NBA, or large footed swimmers, or distance runners of sub Saharan extraction, to see that sport is dominated by people who have talent, but also benefit from advantageous genetic characteristics. These characteristics are legitimate, yet gender genetic traits are illegitimate? Is it fair that I can’t be a world class sprinter because I’m too short and have comparatively fewer fast twitch muscles than other athletes? No. But where’s the moral panic about that? Which groups are up in anger about this genetic difference’s impact on the sporting field of play?

 

All of this mirrors the exact same posts on the flat earth thread. Namely, putting forward an agenda under the banner of “a discussion”. Yet it comes across like there is some other objection to education on gender issues (or human sexuality) that isn’t being spoken out loud, yet, can be furthered via a variety of other periphery issues, of no real consequence, that provide a convenient vehicle to attack the intended target.

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6 hours ago, davey_83 said:

 

Unsure of the question, but il try to answer. Gender is fine and I believe binary, anything else is a mental state. 

 

By presenting Pride parades as a positive lifestyle choice, when actual fact it isn't. If everyone choose to live their lives in the same way, the human population would die out in a single generation. 

 

By presenting that relationship with 3 women is a positive healthy surrounding for a child, where one non binary adult is in a relationship with one and have sex with another all under the same roof. To which sex is presented as not being exclusive or something to hold precious. To then later if that young girl brings home a lad one night, another lad another night, then another the following how are the parents in a position to advise against it? 

 

Trans people in sport is a bad thing, how can a trans women take pride in winning against people that were born as women? Trans men do less well in athletics, and if gender was actually fluid crossover stats would yield a similar success rate but it doesn't. 

You do know that gay people don’t “choose” to be gay right? They’re just are.  

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14 hours ago, davey_83 said:

 

Unsure of the question, but il try to answer. Gender is fine and I believe binary, anything else is a mental state. 

 

 

I would argue Sex is binary, not Gender. 

Edited by coldel

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12 hours ago, SuperStu said:

You only need to look for the number of four foot tall basketball players in the NBA, or large footed swimmers, or distance runners of sub Saharan extraction, to see that sport is dominated by people who have talent, but also benefit from advantageous genetic characteristics. These characteristics are legitimate, yet gender genetic traits are illegitimate? Is it fair that I can’t be a world class sprinter because I’m too short and have comparatively fewer fast twitch muscles than other athletes? No. But where’s the moral panic about that? Which groups are up in anger about this genetic difference’s impact on the sporting field of play?

 

Theres an element of strawman to that TBF ........... everything in life is a competiton, and everyone has strengths and weaknesses. 
Every sport segregates males and females into seperate competitions, and the results invariably support this approach -  people born with XY chromosomes are faster and stronger although I have to say Ive no idea why they are more successful in darts or snooker, anyone? :lol:

Being born with the XY chromosome and then competing in the classes for XX chromosomes is the same as taking drugs for me, you have an unfair advantage over everyone else in the race that cant be achieved by any amount of training. 
Extend this through to its obvious conclusion and you finish up with all male sport, why would a female weightlifter even bother when men are allowed to compete on the same terms? At the moment the records for weightlifting are 151 187 333 vs 216 273 473, thats 50% in each case!

When something is this obviously quantifiable and gives this much of an advantage to certain competitors then for the sake of sport you have to recognise it, otherwise youre lumping everyone together.

While Id love to see 8 years old playing rugby against the All Black senior team or watch a blind football team play Arsenal (could actually be quite close thinking about it :lol: ) these are no more reasonable than having men and women compete together in the 100 metres or Boxing. 

 

 

 
 

Edited by docwra
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23 hours ago, rabbitstew said:

Thats very true, but it maybe because we have a much more diverse population these days. I know when I was at school there were only 2 black kids in the entire school and 2 Chinese kids. Even though it was a rough school, they didnt get bullied and were just accepted. I think older generations like our parents very often frowned upon a lot of stuff just because that's how they were bought up.

 

With regards to the gender stuff, I've noticed my other half recently seeming to encourage my youngest lad to like "girly" stuff. It started with a pink scooter she got (apparently he picked it over a blue one - fair enough). Then a pink barbie bike (again he apparently picked it). Next she bought him a unicorn nightie to wear to bed, and then all these pink unicorn toys started to appear. When I made a comment that surely a boy doesnt wear a pink nightie, he can wear pyjamas like my eldest lad does, she replied "he can wear what he wants etc...". Then she wanted to decorate his bedroom pink and get a barbie castle bed for him (as he "apparently" likes it). That idea has now changed to a rainbow theme, which means his room will look like a gay pride march.  The lad is actually very hench for his age, loves climbing, rugby, peppa pig, building things, hitting things, trains and all the usual boys stuff, so whether or not he actually likes pink stuff and barbie castles who knows, but I do feel my other half is trying to influence him. When ive spoken about it to her, she says "so what if he does turn out to be gay when he`s older?". It honestly makes no difference to me at all if he decides when he`s older he`s gay or not, but I feel at just 3 years old maybe a boy should be treated like a boy.  Our eldest lad has always had boys clothes, boys pyjamas, a blue bedroom, boys bikes, scooters etc.  so im not sure whats going on. Its not just me thinking "boys = blue and girls = pink", but maybe im reading into it more than it is?

Boys be boys and girls be girls. Be careful now....

 

If it doesn't matter which orientation he ends up being. Then you might as well forget about it and stick the kettle on.

 

ps just being funny no offence!

Edited by GranTurismoEra

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