Jump to content
DeeJayDready

Waxoyl Undersealing

Recommended Posts

I recently had my MOT and pleased to say it successfully passed with no issues. While the car was on the ramp I asked the tech whether he thought it could do with being waxoyled or undersealed in some way. He said he thought it was starting get to the point where a coat of waxoyl would be a good idea, particularly if I was looking to hold on to the car for the longer term. I had my previous car ('91 Scirocco GTII) waxoyled underneath a long time ago, and it seemed to be a very good job.

 

Do people think this would be worthwhile?

What sort of price should I expect to pay?

Any tips or specific things to look out for or request?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waxoyl is so horrendously outdated now that I simply can't accept the advice of anyone who recommends it.

 

Undersealing in general isn't a bad idea, especially on imports where they're not sealed at the factory but is it worthwhile to add more? How long a piece of string? 

Look into alternative undersealing products to Waxoyl such as Bilt Hamber as a starter, there are much better products available these days that are much less faff to apply properly and will last longer for not much price difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go on, why not Waxoyl? What’s wrong with it compared with others? Genuine question, I didn’t know there were better alternatives now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waxoyl is no good for many areas due to the type of product that it is (wheel arches, for example, it'll last about 10 minutes before it's gone entirely) and tends to dry out/flake off if not properly applied. It can't bond to powder coating at all and doesn't bond properly to flaky surfaces, so all surfaces need to be properly prepared first which takes time and therefore, if you're paying someone else to do it, money. When not properly applied it also has a tendency to trap moisture in that gets underneath it. And it needs to be applied with a rather specific thickness for it to work at all - too thin and the crud just breaks through, too think and it cracks before the crud then breaks through.

 

It's largely down to the prep and application, but there are now much better alternatives available that are less fussy to apply and therefore more difficult to apply badly and will simply last considerably longer per application. If you can get under the car, it's much more of a DIY job these days with the right products.

 

Waxoyl isn't a terrible product, it's just old tech now that has been surpassed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the technician just said waxoyl as its such an industry word? Bit like sticking something down with 'sellotape' or buying a 'hoover' - brand names that are bywords for a product type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've used Waxoyl on numerous cars and never had a problem with rust. I find it a pleasure to apply as I have a gun and compressor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I think it was me that said the word 'waxoyl' first, because I'd had it done before on a previous vehicle . I'm certainly not wedded to it specifically. Whatever the best quality product is that I can get applied by a local mechanic / bodyshop for a decent price will be what I ultimately go with. Not looking to spend big money on this to be honest. But I don't have the ability to properly get underneath the car, certainly not enough to do the job to the standard I'd want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£500.. Yowza! I'm looking to spend £100 max. Surely it's only an hours labour + materials once the car has been 'MOT washed' underneath and allowed to dry thoroughly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DeeJayDready said:

£500.. Yowza! I'm looking to spend £100 max. Surely it's only an hours labour + materials once the car has been 'MOT washed' underneath and allowed to dry thoroughly?

In the days of old, Waxoyl was not just sprayed underneath but applied to all the box sections, inside the sills, inside the doors etc. Not sure if they still do it the same. If done in an hour they are just likely to be spraying it over whatever crap is already there and potentially just hide any problems until they get serious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DeeJayDready said:

£500.. Yowza! I'm looking to spend £100 max. Surely it's only an hours labour + materials once the car has been 'MOT washed' underneath and allowed to dry thoroughly?

I dread to ask but what's an MOT wash? An hour isn't a long time to do a job you'll spend 10 min just getting the car up and down!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, MDMetal said:

I dread to ask but what's an MOT wash?

A standard service provided by any decent car wash / detailer which includes cleaning underneath the car to remove all the dirt and probably most importantly winter salts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DeeJayDready said:

 I'm looking to spend £100 max. Surely it's only an hours labour + materials once the car has been 'MOT washed' underneath and allowed to dry thoroughly?

1

It will cost more than £100.00 just for decent materials alone.

 

It will take about 8 hours labour to fully prep, apply and clean up for a proper job.

 

If £100.00 is your budget then best to not bother and save your money for other goodies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you spray paint onto a dirty car when spraying it? It has to be properly prepped for the job, every crevice cleaned then dried then descaled, any loose paint and rust removed, then any rust spots remaining treated before even thinking about putting the under seal on. I am sure someone might do it for £100 and just spray it on, but you live with the problems it will no doubt create further down the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a quote from a trusted local garage saying that a couple of hours (about £60 + materials) should do a basic underseal including the chassis legs and all key areas; but that it would cost more to do a more thorough job (wheel arch liners off etc.).

He said he reckoned about 3L should do it. We were talking Waxoyl, as he didn't know the Bilt Hamber stuff. You can currently get 5L of clear Waxoyl on ebay for £23.27. However like ilogikal1 above, a friend of mine also recommended I go for Bilt Hamber (dynax-UC), which is £50 for 5L.

Sounds reasonable enough.

Edited by DeeJayDready

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, DeeJayDready said:

I got a quote from a trusted local garage saying that a couple of hours (about £60 + materials) should do a basic underseal including the chassis legs and all key areas; but that it would cost more to do a more thorough job (wheel arch liners off etc.).

He said he reckoned about 3L should do it. We were talking Waxoyl, as he didn't know the Bilt Hamber stuff. You can currently get 5L of clear Waxoyl on ebay for £23.27. However like ilogikal1 above, a friend of mine also recommended I go for Bilt Hamber (dynax-UC), which is £50 a litre.

Sounds reasonable enough.

Are you planning on this "basic underseal" to be an annual occurrence/expenditure?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I was told that the Bilt Hamber Dynax-UC wax lasts about 3 years, so not every year no.

Why, would you recommend paying more and having a more thorough job done with the wheel arch liners off, sills, suspension arms etc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DeeJayDready said:

Well I was told that the Bilt Hamber Dynax-UC wax lasts about 3 years, so not every year no.

Why, would you recommend paying more and having a more thorough job done with the wheel arch liners off, sills, suspension arms etc?

 

It'll last longer if the surfaces are prepped properly. Proper, thorough prep is likely to take at least 2/3 hours on a reasonably tidy car - the worse it is, the longer it'll take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used the por15 stuff and bilt hamber dynax products. It took me 2 days at home on axle stands but that included a thorough job taking off skirts, bumpers, arch liners etc and fully cleaning/prep first. Great satisfaction when finished and you have complete peace of mind. 

I sell the dynax stuff plus more on the website. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure I'll end up going for the Bilt Hamber Dynax-UC stuff.
It's just how thorough a job to get done it terms of prep etc. I'll have to give that some thought. I'll probably not be getting it done until around April or so, once the weather improves and the salts are of the road etc. Ultimately the guy who'll be doing the job will have some say on that one too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking to do the same to my Z once the weather warms up so be good to know how you get on. I'll be at home on axle stands although I may rent a ramp to do all the cleaning work first but can't afford to leave it on ramps overnight to let it dry properly etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So today I spoke with a guy from Bilt Hamber, my friend who's used several of their products on his MX-5, and the garage who have the ramps and compressor kit and who'll be doing the work, and I've now ordered up 5L of Dynax-UC and 5L of Dynax-UB. I'm planning on doing my lady friend's Hyundai Coupe TSIII at the same time, hence the 10 litres - the general consensus seems to be that it could take about 8L to do both and given that they only come in 5L jerrycans or 750ml aerosols, that was the way to go...

The UC drys clear and supposedly best for the bits you can see like arches and sills, while the UB drys brown is for the main undersides and is even more durable and long-lasting.

Fingers crossed it's a good job, but I do feel confident in the product. It seems to have a good track record of kicking ass in any of the accelerated performance tests people have done against a range of similar products (like Waxoyl etc.).

Now I just need to discuss how thorough a job will be required. 

 

https://www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-protection-and-rust-treatments/dynax-ub

https://www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-protection-and-rust-treatments/dynax-uc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think many people use the term 'waxoyl' as a general term.  As to why its not a good choice, well its just not adherent enough, meaning that it starts to crack and peel away faster than other products (which can also supposedly 'heal' to up to a point if it starts to crack).  Once this happens, water and road crap gets under the waxoyl and stays put there for far longer than if there was no waxoyl, and rust will actually start faster.

 

better products?  I've heard bilt hamber makes many good products, and there's Dinitrol which the Landrover community swear by, and reading into the specs of the stuff it does seem impressive.  POR -15 is a one part epoxy paint to be used on any rusty sections before you spray on Dinitrol/waxoyl.  It is exceptionally good stuff.  I had a rusty front wing on my black E46 and decided as a stop gap to sand back and paint black POR 15 over it until i could find a genuine 2nd hand wing in the same colour...... 2 yrs later! the rust was starting to pop back through ( I'd actually found a wing long before, but was too lazy to fit it!)  In order for metal to rust, it needs Oxygen and water.  If you cut off the supply of one or both significantly, you will slow the rust process, although it will eventually come back.

 

Should you have it done?  Well after about 8 years the factory underseal will certainly be starting to crack especially at any sections of the under body where there are bends in the metal.

 

I had my E46 done a few yrs ago at Rustbusters in spalding for £400, and once a yr for £50 they will check it over and touch up any bits that need done, (though i have to say they do the very quickly, i wonder how good a look over they do).  It was fairly rusty on the under side after 6 yrs of living in scotland, but my 350z has always been in London and the underside looks pretty good.

 

Can you do it yourself?  I tried on my BMW, thinking it would be doable, but its a lot of work, cleaning, removing wheel arch trims, treating any bits of rust, then painting those sections with POR 15 and then spraying Dinitrol 4941.  I gave up and took it to rustbusters, and had a 2 part epoxy pain treatment to the rear arches as well.  It was probably tougher, as I'm a bit of a perfectionist when doing things myself, and my BMW had lots of little rusty bits.  I'll look at the underside of the 350Z this summer, if it looks pretty decent I may just touch up sections of the factory underseal.  Even though i had my BMW sprayed, I still have this nagging doubt that water may get under the Dinitrol, and as i've mentioned if that happens, rust just accelerates.

 

What you can do quite easily on many cars is spray the box sections. remove the side skirts, kick plates and that gives you access to the box sections.  there may also be rubber grommets in the wheel arch sections.   I used a Dinitrol 3125 which is thinner than the standard 4941 so it can seep and spread into all nooks and crannies as you are essentially spraying blind into the box sections, just be careful to have trays to play underneath the car as it will seep down and drip on to your drive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

350z-uk.com

370z-uk.com

×
×
  • Create New...