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Valandile

New Rear tyres fitted now dangerous handling!

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I had Michelin Super Sport on front and back. Back ones needed changing, went for Pirelli Zero Nero GT. Now when driving above 50mph the car feels like it is leaning from one side to the other very slowly. If i wiggle the steering wheel a little and then lock the wheel to straighten up the back end continues to wiggle for 1-2 seconds...****ing terrifying.

 

There was no issues before the tyre change. Had the garage spend a day checking tyre pressure, suspension and road testing. They said it can't be the wheel balancing but i asked them to redo it anyway and they will tomorrow. They said I'd have to buy another set of tyres to test as they have no part worn ones at my size to test...

 

Anyone else experienced this? Any ideas what steps to take next? I might bite the bullet and order some Michelin PS4's...

 

UPDATE: 29/04/2017 - Garage did another wheel balance and found the offside rear rim had a minor bend (I have no vibration and that's been there before the tyre change. Although I will look to buy a new rim). Only other thing they could explain for the handling issue was that the Pirelli Nero Zero GT's have a softer wall than the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, so when the backend is catching up with the front the rear tyres are "streaching" with a certain force (making sense that it's only happening from 50mph and above).

 

FINAL UPDATE: 17/10/2020 - I had a Pirelli sale rep work with me and he offered a discount if I bought a front pair of Pirelli Zero's, he then replaced the rears for free with the same model of tyre. I went with it and the handling was absolutely fine after that. Although I could tell the handling was not as good as the original Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The main thing was that all the wobble in the handling instantly f**ked off.

 

A right school boy error getting two different tyre brands on the front and back :bangin:

Edited by Valandile
Resolution added

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Arte you sure the wheels are in the right place.

They might have mixed the front up with the rear.

Did the same myself when swapping summers for winters.

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tyre size?

Tyre pressure?

fitted correct way?

 

mis matched tyres dont help, why go pirelli not pilot super sport again?

Edited by StevoD

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Pirellis don't have half the grip the MPSS do, so you're always going to have a more slippery rear (!) until you change the fronts to match. That said, this is much more likely to be a case of you not having worn the release agent off yet, so it will get better the more miles you do.

 

Pump the pressures up in the rear by a couple of PSI too, see if that helps.

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Arte you sure the wheels are in the right place.

They might have mixed the front up with the rear.

Did the same myself when swapping summers for winters.

 

As a test they were going to swap the fronts a backs but they're different sizes so they didn't touch the fronts. I'm probably getting a second opinion tomorrow at another tyre place. I know some tyres have to have the tread pointing in a certain direction but the tyres didn't come with any markings to advise a direction. Maybe that's the issue?

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tyre size?

Tyre pressure?

fitted correct way?

 

mis matched tyres dont help, why go pirelli not pilot super sport again?

 

245/45/18

32psi (same as front)

There's no marking on the tyres to indicate the direction the should have been fitted. I'll be ringing/emailing Pirelli tomorrow to ask this.

 

Edit: I didn't get Michelin because they would have taken a few days to deliver so i thought i would try Pirelli as they were in stock for same day. Best test is to buy Michelin and see if i have the same issue. It's a last resort as that's another £300 to spend.

Edited by Valandile

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Pirellis don't have half the grip the MPSS do

Correct, they have ~90%

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They're not directional, but they do (or should) have 'OUTSIDE' stamped on them to indicate which side goes on the outside edge of the wheel. Check that.

 

Pirellis don't have half the grip the MPSS do

Correct, they have ~90%

At the moment, it sounds like they have 10%.

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There's no marking on the tyres to indicate the direction the should have been fitted. I'll be ringing/emailing Pirelli tomorrow to ask this.

P Zero Nero GTz are non-directional, but asymmetrical.

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Pirellis don't have half the grip the MPSS do, so you're always going to have a more slippery rear (!) until you change the fronts to match. That said, this is much more likely to be a case of you not having worn the release agent off yet, so it will get better the more miles you do.

 

Pump the pressures up in the rear by a couple of PSI too, see if that helps.

 

Haven't thought about that. I've never experienced an issue with release agent or having different brand tyres (I've seen mixed opinions online with mixed tyres and within the 10years driving with different brands I've not had an issue until now).

Also 50mph is quiet a low speed in my opinion and should I really have slippy tyres at that speed?! Does Pirelli want to kill drivers?

On your advice though I'll have the car back tomorrow and take it up mid Wales to warm the tyres and push it a little. See if i can wear them in a little.

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You can always get rid of any release agent quite quickly on a private road, lay down some 11s. Obviously with landowners permission, obey the laws etc.

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Err, also, 32psi is far too low. the zed is a heavy beast. once the release agent has worn off, try the fronts at the recommended 35psi, and the rears slightly higher at 37psi.

 

also, you'd need to do about 200 miles before id say a tyre is performing optimally. which id do at a slow steady pace!

Edited by brillomaster

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Err, also, 32psi is far too low. the zed is a heavy beast. once the release agent has worn off, try the fronts at the recommended 35psi, and the rears slightly higher at 37psi.

 

also, you'd need to do about 200 miles before id say a tyre is performing optimally. which id do at a slow steady pace!

 

I'll get that pressure adjusted tomorrow then a long drive but steady, got it.

 

Thanks to all of you so far, amazing help and knowledge here.

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Not sure if it's been said but previously if your MPSS were XL and the new ones aren't, this might be the difference you are experiencing.

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Not sure if it's been said but previously if your MPSS were XL and the new ones aren't, this might be the difference you are experiencing.

Apparently the Pirelli Zero Nero GT 245/45R18 only come in XL. Good shout still, I'll have to check on the actual tyres when i see my car tomorrow.

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Now when driving above 50mph the car feels like it is leaning from one side to the other very slowly. If i wiggle the steering wheel a little and then lock the wheel to straighten up the back end continues to wiggle for 1-2 seconds...****ing terrifying.

 

(imho)

 

This sounds like a mechanical issue and nothing else.

 

Initially it could be that the nuts aren't torqued up to spec (112nm for 350z) - ALWAYS ensure they are done up to that, not under or beyond.

Don't let anyone just use and airgun\impact wrench or f'ing tight.

 

It could also be that there is some dirt between the mating faces or something blocking the wheel(s) from a secure fitting (that'll magnify with speed).

 

Or potentially something on the suspension has perished (bushing) and just happened to coincide with tyre change.

I've had something like that before where the compression rod at the front knacked the ball joint when changing something else. (crap timing)

 

Whatever the case, hopefully it's just something simple and easy to sort :thumbs:

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UPDATE: 29/04/2017 - Garage did another wheel balance and found the offside rear rim had a minor bend (I have no vibration and that's been there before the tyre change. Although I will look to buy a new rim). Only other thing they could explain for the handling issue was that the Pirelli Nero Zero GT's have a softer wall than the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, so when the backend is catching up with the front the rear tyres are "streaching" with a certain force (making sense that it's only happening from 50mpg and above).

 

The ultimate test is for me to obtain anther set of the previous tyres I had 'Michelin Pilot Super Sport' but they don't make them for my wheel size anymore... Once I find some partworn or cheaper new onces I'll know for sure if it was a simple mistake of ordering Pirelli Nero Zero GT's.

Edited by Valandile

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Just changed all four to MPS4 and I can say even in the wet there impressive, nice bite as soon as you turn in, grips seems to be good. Plus its made the car a bit comfier now I have some new 'shoulders/tread height' lol

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(imho)

 

This sounds like a mechanical issue and nothing else.

 

 

Yes, yes and yes. For crying out loud people, use some common sense.

 

We have all driven cars with substandard tyres, in some cases we have driven cars with totally bald tyres and some of us ( B) ) have driven different radiuses, widths, compounds, inflation, hell, Ive driven cars with 4 tyres under 10 PSI before.

We are all here to tell the tale, so is it our amazing driving expertise or is it the fact that TYRES WILL NOT MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE TO YOUR CAR??

 

I welcome anyone that can explain to me how two different compounds front to back will make a car wobble in a straight line at 50mph using any explanation they want to, its physically impossible.

 

Whats a lot more likely is that bushes, alignment, arms, even the diff isnt working right here. For all you know an apprentice might have tried to take the wheel off using the toe arm, used wobble nuts to put the wheel back on, used a spigot ring thats the wrong size, or .........

 

Once again we have a member looking to buy new tyres for absolutely no reason, Ill stake my entire dodgy reputation that this is not tyre related, unless one of the tyres has a very serious manufacturing fault.

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I never put the resolution in this thread.

 

I had a Pirelli sale rep work with me and he offered a discount if I bought a front pair of Pirelli Zero's, he then replaced the rears for free with the same model of tyre. I went with it and the handling was absolutely fine after that. Although I could tell the handling was not as good as the original Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The main thing was that all the wobble in the handling instantly f**ked off.

 

A right school boy error getting two different tyre brands on the front and back :bangin:

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On 07/06/2017 at 15:09, docwra said:

 

, Ill stake my entire dodgy reputation that this is not tyre related, unless one of the tyres has a very serious manufacturing fault.

Well that’s your rep gone then mate :lol:

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1 hour ago, Valandile said:

I never put the resolution in this thread.

 

I had a Pirelli sale rep work with me and he offered a discount if I bought a front pair of Pirelli Zero's, he then replaced the rears for free with the same model of tyre. I went with it and the handling was absolutely fine after that. Although I could tell the handling was not as good as the original Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The main thing was that all the wobble in the handling instantly f**ked off.

 

A right school boy error getting two different tyre brands on the front and back :bangin:

 

Did you ever try it with the matching fronts and dodgy rears in order to determine if it was a manufacturing fault on the rears, or did you go straight to matching fronts and new rears?

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3 minutes ago, marzman said:

 

Did you ever try it with the matching fronts and dodgy rears in order to determine if it was a manufacturing fault on the rears, or did you go straight to matching fronts and new rears?

I didn't try that and thinking back, the Pirelli sales rep didn't say if there was an issue with them but he said he's taking them back for testing. I never had a response to if they were dodgy or not. He did get some gloves on and was testing the tyres with his thumbs pushing in different parts or the tyres. No idea what he was feeling for :shrug:

 

Sorry there's no definitive answer but if anything, I was impressed that Pirelli sent a person out to investigate. Not sure any other type company would do that?

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18 hours ago, Ekona said:

Well that’s your rep gone then mate :lol:

Serious manufacturing fault caveat to the rescue ........ possibly :lol:

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