coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ''Tis true If the GT86 had 280-300bhp it would be a great motor .. The GT twin cams and GT4's I had also lacked performance in comparison to other manufacturers cars at the same time, despite driving brilliantly they just didn't have enough go.. Perhaps it's just what Toyota "do" ... í ½í¸³ The ST205 GT4 was on par with the Escort Cosworth of its era in terms of performance, and slightly down on an Evo, but hey most cars worth double the Evo money were also down on it. The ST185 GT4 won three consecutive WRCs until the Evo's came along and murdered everything. Toyotas of that era certainly did 'do' performance and the 2JZ engine in the Supra could be boosted to something like 500bhp without forging, it had phenomenal performance and engineering. The ST205 has the superstrut suspension which makes it incredible in the corners, but also came with 250bhp as standard, the GT86 it appears has gone the handling route like the ST205 did but in modern day terms 200bhp is a missed opportunity, as much as chuckability is fun, you still need to go in a straight line at some point and having a car that looks like a GT86 which doesn't deliver is a big no no in my book. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just to be clear, the BRZ86 is perfectly quick enough assuming you're in the mood to be on it every time. Much like the S2K, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just to be clear, the BRZ86 is perfectly quick enough assuming you're in the mood to be on it every time. Much like the S2K, really. Except when accelerating on a motorway next to a diesel golf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 If you wanted to be on it, then sure: You'd easy out accelerate the Golf. But leave it in 6th and you'll be slaughtered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I have never driven the GT86 (and have to say I really have no desire to) - but I just feel like putting 200bhp on it so its 'just about enough' feels like a missed opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 It's still very much on my radar, it just wasn't love at first drive. Hopefully trying a manual 370z today, there's both a roadster and coupe relatively nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 A fair write up, once I put new wheels and tyres on mine it does transform. As for the floaty I know what you mean but I think that's what Toyota intended. Mine is now on coilovers and it's like glue everywhere but still allows the slip at the back when giving it full beans in low gears. Drive in VSC Sport and it allows you to drive out of the slip it's brilliant fun, as for power mins sc running 320 it pulls so well like a little train, it is 100% quicker than a 370. 100% quicker than a 370z? Even with a supercharger I very much doubt that but i bet its a lot of fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Try the Subaru, I found it a much more rewarding and accurate drive due to the different spring ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinaman Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ''Tis true If the GT86 had 280-300bhp it would be a great motor .. The GT twin cams and GT4's I had also lacked performance in comparison to other manufacturers cars at the same time, despite driving brilliantly they just didn't have enough go.. Perhaps it's just what Toyota "do" ... ������ The ST205 GT4 was on par with the Escort Cosworth of its era in terms of performance, and slightly down on an Evo, but hey most cars worth double the Evo money were also down on it. The ST185 GT4 won three consecutive WRCs until the Evo's came along and murdered everything. Toyotas of that era certainly did 'do' performance and the 2JZ engine in the Supra could be boosted to something like 500bhp without forging, it had phenomenal performance and engineering. The ST205 has the superstrut suspension which makes it incredible in the corners, but also came with 250bhp as standard, the GT86 it appears has gone the handling route like the ST205 did but in modern day terms 200bhp is a missed opportunity, as much as chuckability is fun, you still need to go in a straight line at some point and having a car that looks like a GT86 which doesn't deliver is a big no no in my book. Yep... I had every generation of ST GT4 celica.. I loved them.... but they never was quick... A half decent Subaru would kill one and the Evo was at another level... I worked for Ralliart as a tech in the late 90's and had some great days in some serious weaponry... At the time I had a Starion Turbo with 300ish BHP... Fun times 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I'm surprised no ones commented on the £3000 part ex Toyota offered me I imagine that is trade price for a 2004 350Z, how much did you think he would offer you? It would have to be a pretty special 04 for it to sell for much over 5K private, and the dealer would have to fix any faults and then warranty it too. Youre also comparing a modified Zed to a standard 86, thats probably why it felt quiet and floaty - new exhaust and suspension makes a lot of difference on any car. And a 205 GT4 with boost mods is a quick car, no doubt, Toyota used to make this thing called the Supra as well ......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ''Tis true If the GT86 had 280-300bhp it would be a great motor .. The GT twin cams and GT4's I had also lacked performance in comparison to other manufacturers cars at the same time, despite driving brilliantly they just didn't have enough go.. Perhaps it's just what Toyota "do" ... ������ The ST205 GT4 was on par with the Escort Cosworth of its era in terms of performance, and slightly down on an Evo, but hey most cars worth double the Evo money were also down on it. The ST185 GT4 won three consecutive WRCs until the Evo's came along and murdered everything. Toyotas of that era certainly did 'do' performance and the 2JZ engine in the Supra could be boosted to something like 500bhp without forging, it had phenomenal performance and engineering. The ST205 has the superstrut suspension which makes it incredible in the corners, but also came with 250bhp as standard, the GT86 it appears has gone the handling route like the ST205 did but in modern day terms 200bhp is a missed opportunity, as much as chuckability is fun, you still need to go in a straight line at some point and having a car that looks like a GT86 which doesn't deliver is a big no no in my book. Yep... I had every generation of ST GT4 celica.. I loved them.... but they never was quick... A half decent Subaru would kill one and the Evo was at another level... I worked for Ralliart as a tech in the late 90's and had some great days in some serious weaponry... At the time I had a Starion Turbo with 300ish BHP... Fun times í ½í¸‚í ½í¸‚ Sounds cool, Ralliart must have been fun. I would disagree on the Subaru comment, again in the early mid 90s Toyota owned WRC Subaru and Mitsubishi came much later with anything that could compete. Unfortunately Toyota's cheating on the ST205 got them banned so we never saw a competitive match up on the rally stages between the three. The Evo was head and shoulders late 90s, but Subaru and St205 were easily on par of that era having driven both can't say there is much in it in terms of out and out performance. Celica feels much more 'pointy' and more capable exiting corners faster. Subaru just feels a bit more brutish if there is such a thing. All that said, who knows what power these cars were making, paper numbers were 250bhp but my GT4 with just a new stainless exhaust and decat and no other mods put down 281bhp on the dyno so it could well have been a fair bit more than the paper numbers when rolling off the line. Somewhat ironically the Cosworth was not the out and out quickest car of the lot of that era, but now worth much more than most. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 Well I certainly wasn't expecting a fortune, but something closer to comparable spec, age, colour and miles already out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Was that meant to be on another thread Stu, or am I being a div and missing something here ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Was that meant to be on another thread Stu, or am I being a div and missing something here ! Right place. He's referring to the value of his car. (From the £3k dealer offer comment). Edited December 16, 2016 by Strudul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Ah right got ya. Well if its any comfort, on WBAC when I put my mint GT4 through on it just for laughs offered me £50 Not only that, but said if it had any scratches it would reduce the offer...! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 But none of those cars have actually sold ............. theres an 04 in grey with 55K miles from a dealer on Autotrader for £4980, an 07 plate with 80K for £5K, a dealer 04 with 50K for £5K .......... Im not saying for a second that your car isnt worth a lot more, but the dealer has to be able to shift it AND make a bit into the bargain, hence the lowball offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Doesn't really matter what they offer you for yours, it's all about the cost to change If they offer you £3K for yours and you want £5K for it, they just need to take £2K off the sticker price of the new car and you're no worse off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leosille Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 A fair write up, once I put new wheels and tyres on mine it does transform. As for the floaty I know what you mean but I think that's what Toyota intended. Mine is now on coilovers and it's like glue everywhere but still allows the slip at the back when giving it full beans in low gears. Drive in VSC Sport and it allows you to drive out of the slip it's brilliant fun, as for power mins sc running 320 it pulls so well like a little train, it is 100% quicker than a 370. 100% quicker than a 370z? Even with a supercharger I very much doubt that but i bet its a lot of fun I've driven both the auto and manual 370z many times, then jumped straight back in mine. The z has about the same power as mine but weighs 200kg more, more than happy to show you dependant on where you live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un1eash Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 When your on it its certainly quicker then most 4 pot diesels as it still is 200bhp and 1300kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Its like revisiting pistonheads before the launch: It hasnt got enough hp yes it has no it hasnt, needs fi your wrong, its a drivers cars, you dont need more power no i am not i want more power but then its not a drivers car Repeat and repeat Personally i think Toyota would have sold more if it had a few more ponies and when the prices get lower will the tuner car of choice as lets face it, there isnt anything else thats come out of Japan for the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ^ Wrong 200 ps / 1180 kg The GT86 was never intended to be a 1/4 mile king, much like the Zed. Yet both do perform very well on track with very good feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I didnt say it was a 1/4 mile king, what i said was, some people hoped/wanted it to have more power, nothing wrong in that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ^ Wrong 200 ps / 1180 kg The GT86 was never intended to be a 1/4 mile king, much like the Zed. Yet both do perform very well on track with very good feedback. 370z will run a 12 second 1/4 mile stock , that's pretty respectable, as is 0-60 in 5 seconds, the 370z does the straight line stuff much better than the gt86 but the latter does track much better than the zed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 But none of those cars have actually sold ............. theres an 04 in grey with 55K miles from a dealer on Autotrader for £4980, an 07 plate with 80K for £5K, a dealer 04 with 50K for £5K .......... Im not saying for a second that your car isnt worth a lot more, but the dealer has to be able to shift it AND make a bit into the bargain, hence the lowball offer. I totally understand what you're saying and I certainly wasn't expecting a big number (if it had been I'd have jumped in ) just the gap between the two number was bigger than I expected. Doesn't really matter what they offer you for yours, it's all about the cost to change If they offer you £3K for yours and you want £5K for it, they just need to take £2K off the sticker price of the new car and you're no worse off. Indeed, also there's plenty of them about and I have plenty of time, so it's not like there aren't many, many options. This somewhat dries up though if I were looking for a BRZ in WRC blue, they're like rocking horse shizzle. Anywho, worth of the Zed aside. I did some math earlier to try and bring some science into it, but mainly because I'm not working right now, so I have plenty of time on my hands In minimum curb weight order, in the red corner, coming out of... BRZ86 - 1240 kg - 162 bhp/tonne - 122 lbs/ft/tonne Cayman - 1350 kg - 218 bhp/tonne - 186 lbs/ft/tonne BMW M135 - 1425 kg - 225 bhp/tonne - 232 lbs/ft/tonne 370z Coupe - 1496 kg - 218 bhp/tonne - 178 lbs/ft/tonne My 350z Coupe - 1550 kg - 188 bhp/tonne - 170 lbs/ft/tonne XKR Coupe - 1665 kg - 252 bhp/tonne - 248 lbs/ft/tonne BMW 645i Coupe - 1690 kg - 197 bhp/tonne - 196 lbs/ft/tonne VXR8 - 1831 kg - 226 bhp/tonne - 221 lbs/ft/tonne I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, no pseudo science will be involved in the final decision, it'll be all about the tingle in my tummy stick behind the wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 the salesman offered me £3000 for my extremely tidy 2004 350z GT on 67k. The ICE alone is worth a grand but, in fairness, he was very apologetic about it and said it might do better if I went private with enthusiasts. I got less than that on my 04 when trading in recently, mine had a small fortune spent on it. Wheels, suspension, clutch, flywheel and less than 80k on clock. I think £3,000 is the going rate for a 350Z with dealers regardless of mods etc. I was shocked but then again I had mine up for sale privately for 5.5k and didn't get a sniff of interest. Got fed up in the end and just cut my losses, couldn't be bothered to put it back to standard either. I've always liked the look of the GT86 but I fall into the "it hasn't got enough power" boat unfortunately. I absolutely destroyed one not long ago in the ST. Maybe I have small willy syndrome but I would hate having a car that looked that way and got overtook by everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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