Flex Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 7 hours ago, AliveBoy said: The big difference I find is, if ALL texts in the world were destroyed, just one day they vanished and our memory of them disappeared too, what would return? Science, being the replication of results under controlled circumstances would eventually come back to the same conclusions. It may take thousands of years, but the same experiments would still be possible and the same results would occur. If you stand in your average kitchen and let go of an apple a thousand times, it will hit the surface directly below it each time. If after those 1,000 drops you let go of the apple and it hits the ceiling, chances are some major variable has changed and not that a mystical being in the sky wanted an apple. Religious texts could never appear in the same way as they are now, a guy called Jesus might turn water into lucozade, which is similar to what happened in the bible, but it's not the replication of exact same thing. Just as a bloke called Bill Shakespeare might write a book about two lovers with families at war with each other, but in this book it's Rachel and Julius. Science is repeatable but still adapts to it's findings. Religion stands firm and says it's not changing. It does change a bit though doesnt it. Be in through misinterpretation or adapting (albeit only slightly) the current Pope has changed a few of their policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Thanks Dan. I guess I coulda googled that lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Ekona said: So basically, Uranus is a bit unusual? Muwhahahaha! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 15 hours ago, coldel said: So how long is it you think? Never really thought about it until this thread to be fair. Time scale wise is a tough one, however the good book says: Day 1 - heavens and the earth. Day 2 - the sky. Day 3 - dry land. Day 4 - stars and heavenly bodies ''the sun which is the primary source of light and the moon which reflects the light of the sun. The movement of these bodies will distinguish day from night'' (at this point I guess one day is created as we know it today ie 24hrs) however the word day was used before to explain time so surely must be different in terms of length. Day 5 - all life that lives in the water. Day 6 - all the creatures that live on dry land including man. Day 7 - He chilled and watched the moto GP, which I make it to be about 6000 years ago and still continues today. If day 6 was the start of all land animals, that might give an indication into the length of a God day and not a earth day of 24hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I think the date is wrong judging by the thunder and lightening where I am today!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 So evolution was designed in by the supreme being, or we're an out of control plaything that's been given up on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Made with 100% freewill the same as the angels and yes left to it so to speak. Why, that's the big question. Its to show him (the red angel with the long pointy tail) and his boys, that good can prevail over bad. To me its a massive game of pride and honour, as all the other angels are watching this pet project unfold. If I made the best race engine ever and said this is unbreakable, no amount of abuse could break the engine. My mate goes 'give us the key and we'll see how strong your build is'? Well ive said it now and everyone is watching as I hand over the keys. I can't then ask for the keys back until he is satisfied the build is good. 6021 years and many services later, the build is still holding up............................. just. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Davey, no disrespect meant at all by this question but I'm genuinely unsure of your honest opinion on this. Are you a believer of God and the Bible? I assume yes based on that last comment, but other posts you've meant give me doubt. Just want to know which side of the fence you sit really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Reading through, I think he is a religious man, but not completely sold on the idea the world will end on the 23rd. But is willing to be read up on the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, Ekona said: Davey, no disrespect meant at all by this question but I'm genuinely unsure of your honest opinion on this. Are you a believer of God and the Bible? I assume yes based on that last comment, but other posts you've meant give me doubt. Just want to know which side of the fence you sit really. I'm not a hardcore bible dude, I rarely but do drink, live in sin, lie, get jealous of mates with nice cars LOL like anyone else ultimately like most try to live and show others respect. many aspect of the bible I like, I guess most from what I understand, but parts I don't like again partly due to my understanding maybe. Not a hater of science or technology, however never been sold on the idea ok monkey to man. But yes 1000000000% believer in Jehovah God. Genuinely enjoying this thread, debates over the age old debate and its been kept respectful which I think is great of the forum 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 +1 on the respectful. I'm the other way round, I guess technically I'm agnostic, I don't believe in my head that its real, Christianity or otherwise, but am prepared to be found out to be wrong. If i try to be good (yes I'm aware I've failed), it doesn't matter either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Perfect answer, thanks Davey. Mentioning Jehovah suddenly makes the creation of this thread much clearer to me too. Interesting comment about you not entirely believing (there's a huge irony in me using that word here!) in the theory of evolution. Can I ask why, or more specifically what you don't believe is true about it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Cheers chaps Not herd of agnostic before, every days a school day. Evolution is a theory and the complexity of the earth and everything living is not as a result of chance and randomness in my mind. Supposedly we were made in his image, thus already made like you and I. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Davey, I'm really enjoying this thread, I just want to say thanks for taking the time to answer the questions. Too many people on both sides get drawn into the "prove it is" "prove it isn't" circle of argument and you're coming back with decent answers, so thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Agreed, and the only reason I carried on with my line of questioning is purely because it makes a nice change to have a debate with a believer who isn't an utter fruitloop and gets angry at everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Boo angry and defensive, just why? Everyone today is hung up on not wanting to be wrong. We have conversations not in real time but via forums or social media, giving time to answer and collect ones thoughts. Anyone can be an expert of a particular topic if the Google the answer and sell as their own knowledge. I'd rather present my own true thoughts and if I'm wrong, I can genuinely learn going forward. The hole topic on faith for me is kinda as I'd much rather believe in a certain faith and ultimately turn out to be wrong, than not believe at all. Because if it turns out to be the real deal, oh boi Mines R34 GTR for me please G 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Just make sure you pick the right one ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) Lol I had the very same talk with a practicing JW, I said is your faith the correct world of God? He said of course. I said how do you know for sure. He said because it says so here in the Bible. And showed me words to that effect. I said but surely all the other religions say the same thing in their book. I for get his answer but I think we said the above again a few times. So yeah fair comment on the choose the right one. I said to Colin at the weekend. What about a person living in Greenland or similar or an Eskimo. Doesn't speak English and his/her parents have a particular way of life maybe not founded in the Bible or any version similar or well known religion. What about them, is this person what God is looking for? He said here in the Bible it says the word of God will spread to all parts of the land in time for his return. Now to me physically that's not possible surely, so what happens then? He said his reply again. My thinking is what about children that have not had the time to choose a religion or not, on the approch to 'the day of return's what happens to them? Well I have an idea but I think it's very similar to our folks in Greenland for example. From the above I would say Colin although possibly a good man, is not adjusting from his thoughts not one bit about how things go. You have many different chapters of the Bible, what I mean is religions from the same book that all believe in slightly different things. Example, some believe the son, father and holy spirit are one being. In the Bible it's said that age 12 i think it was, jesus went missing? Was later found in a nearby church. Said to his folks (bit cheeky I thought) where else would I be but in the father's home. If they are one being, he'd have said he was in his own home and not his father's surely. So yeah it's very much down to one's own interpretation and understanding apply logic and reasoning along the way. But who knows for sure right. #longpostalert Edited July 6, 2017 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 20 minutes ago, davey_83 said: The hole topic on faith for me is kinda as I'd much rather believe in a certain faith and ultimately turn out to be wrong, than not believe at all. Because if it turns out to be the real deal, oh boi Mines R34 GTR for me please G Not sure why this reminded me and it's slightly off topic, but has anyone watched American Gods on Amazon? It's properly weird, however (here's the relevance!) Anubis, the ancient Egyptian God of Death takes care of all dead people in the world and points them onto the heaven of their religion once he has measured if they're worthy for it or not. When he deals with one person, he says "In life you believed in nothing, so in death you will have nothing." Imagine, finding out at that stage you were wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Yeah love American Gods. The concept used is similar to Terry Pratchett Discworld gods, where the more believers a god has the bigger and more power he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 If it turns out I'm wrong, I'd like to think that only a particularly petty deity would hang me out to dry for not actively worshipping. Surely the whole point is your daily deeds? Try not to be a jerk and do your best to be helpful 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, SuperStu said: If it turns out I'm wrong, I'd like to think that only a particularly petty deity would hang me out to dry for not actively worshipping. Surely the whole point is your daily deeds? Try not to be a jerk and do your best to be helpful I think it's an entry requirement to diety school that you have to be petty. I mean, "God" killed a LOT of people in the old testament alone. He flooded the whole world for not listening to him! Through sacrifices, anger and displeasure, I'd think it would be fair to presume "God" has killed more people than his red, pointy tailed opposite number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 This is the thing. If God, any God, actually exists and is wise and kind and capable of the many great feats as claimed, then He's an utter c*** of a god for letting little kids die of cancer. That for me alone rules out any possibility of there being any such creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Many truly awful, unreasonable and damn right unfair things happen in life. More people are living today than have ever died in history. I believe we are all living due to God's will. Yes he has killed many many people history, however if you see a man building a massive boat in the middle of dry land and nowhere near sea with countless animals crossing continents to hop on board.... If you don't choose to take a free ticket that's your own fault in my view. As said before if he were to intervene, the whole point of his project would be invalid. Adam and Eve sinned first and thus defects were present in man ever since sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 On 04/07/2017 at 11:23, Jay84 said: I'm ok with believers of any kind, as long as they don't waste effort trying to convert me. I'm happy in my lack of belief. I wish someone would tell Gangzoom that 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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