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The EV problem.


Zeezeebaba

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On 8/13/2017 at 08:17, Ekona said:

So, P90D. Ludicrous mode. Launch mode. Takes 45 mins to pre-heat the battery before you can actually engage it. Same with the X?

 

To get the 2.3 second 0-60 time on the P100D you have to have battery warm, which if it's zero degrees outside will take time.

 

Non 'ludicrous' mode I believe is a rather pedestrian 3 second 0-60 time.

 

My X is like a 1.0 Nissan Micra in comparison at 4.9 seconds 0-60.

 

Still hoping the a sub 2 second 0-60 time will be offered soon, but I believe current tyre compounds is the limiting factor not the power.

Edited by gangzoom
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So 50 mins for proper launch control then. Well that's great engineering :lol: It's like when Top Gear tested the 0-60 of the M6, and timed it at about 5 mins after you faff through all the controls!

 

And that was just following up from a TG video I watched yesterday, and then general research from owners in the US (who definitely don't live in zero degrees!) and they all said that it was that long.

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35 minutes ago, Ekona said:

So 50 mins for proper launch control then. Well that's great engineering :lol: 

 

How much energy is required to launch a 2.5 ton car from 0-60 in 2.3 seconds?

 

Quite frankly it's ludicourse Tesla even bothered to chase a 0-60 time of under 3 seconds, as the P85D I drove in insane mode was already stupidly quick!!

 

But apparently all the P100D owners get use to a sub 2.5 second 0-60 time really quickly, and anything that does 0-60 in more than 3 seconds just feels slow.

 

Just remind me how many many other 4 door saloons can get to 60 in 3 seconds let alone 2.3? We are talking about some stupid mind boggling amount of power.

 

No one really needs that amount of speed but I have to say if they breach the 2second barrier I could be tempeted to pay the no doubt extortinate asking price.

 

Edited by gangzoom
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The point isn't the 0-60 time. The point is offering something for a headline figure that, in reality, is just impossible to use. It's something that they should rightly be called out on.

 

If you pay extra for that feature, you're a complete idiot.

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35 minutes ago, Ekona said:

The point isn't the 0-60 time. The point is offering something for a headline figure that, in reality, is just impossible to use. It's something that they should rightly be called out on.

 

If you pay extra for that feature, you're a complete idiot.

 

I quite agree, the P85D I drove was already too fast for public roads, you have to be a nutter to want anything quicker.

 

But I doubt you can describe anyone who can afford a £130k+ car as an idiot, if I could afford £130k to spend on a family car I woudlnt really care what names people called me;).

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Once again, point missed. I do wonder if you're doing it on purpose now.

 

Pay what you like for a car, that's not a problem. The problem is paying EXTRA for a feature you can never really use, unless you like waiting for an entire hour hour to use it. That's what maketh the idiot.

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^ You mean like paying  £8k for extended autopilot, which is not even remotely close to been activate:).

 

Most 'P' Tesla owners seem to have paid for that as well!!!

 

After all what's another £8k when the base car is  £130k (not including leather).

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^ Plenty of people have the cash to waste though, the 'P' car have historically sold very well.

 

The base Tesla have always been best 'value for money'. The current base Model S less than half the price of the P100D, still gets to 60 in 4.2 seconds, everything else on the car is 100% the same as the P100D except for 0-60 performance.

Edited by gangzoom
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3 hours ago, gangzoom said:

 

 

But I doubt you can describe anyone who can afford a £130k+ car as an idiot, if I could afford £130k to spend on a family car I woudlnt really care what names people called me;).

 

A few expression for you:

 

A fool and their money are easily parted

 

Money cant buy you taste/style

 

So its a perfectly valid comment, i have literally no idea why you think money warrants any kind of exclusion, do you think if you have £130k to spend on a car you are better than anyone else, no need to answer you obviously do. 

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34 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Can you buy LC on the base S cars too?

No, there is no need.

 

The Lidcousre mode essentially puts the battery into some kind of crazy discharge mode. You talking about discharging at a rate of 1500Amps inorder for the crazy 0-60 time, which is why the battery has to be up to temp (your house main fuse will be 100amps max).

 

The motors are apparently acutally capable of 600 bhp+ output each, so potentially over 1000bhp combined output.

 

The main limit to power is purely how much electricty you can get to the motors. Development of battery packs isn't just about adding range but also how you can increase discharge rate safely. 

 

We are only at the start of the EV development cycle compared to combustion cars. In a few years time sub 3 second 0-60 times will become normal for hot hatches. 

 

Ofcourse the question will than become if we (humans) can be trusted with so much instant power ;).

Edited by gangzoom
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1 hour ago, Zeezeebaba said:

At this rate we will need G suits to drive to work in :)

 

 

Crazy actually to think a road car can deploy the same amount of electricty as 20+ houses can assume simultaneously!! 

 

If they can get the same amount of power delivery into the 3 the results will be astounding given the 800kg weight difference between the 3 and S.

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9 hours ago, gangzoom said:

 

I quite agree, the P85D I drove was already too fast for public roads, you have to be a nutter to want anything quicker.

 

But I doubt you can describe anyone who can afford a £130k+ car as an idiot, if I could afford £130k to spend on a family car I woudlnt really care what names people called me;).

 

Ive met many, many rich idiots. 

 

Most rich people are old money. 

 

Some would argue only a idiot would spend £130k on a family car. Especially one with dodgy build quality that will date very quickly. Technology on these will move just as fast as with phones and laptops in a few years. 

 

 

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^ Actually Tesla add changes to faster than even smart phone makers. I originally ordered my X 12 months ago, since than:

 

1: At least 4 prices changes - Some up some down due to currency changes.

 

2: Lowest spec car has gone from 60kWh battery to 75kWh, and 0-60 time has dropped from 6 seconds to 4.9 seconds.

 

3: Autopilot hardware now been upgraded to include addtional CPU, Telsa have said they will upgrade all existing hardware for free.

 

4: Numerous çhanges to parts like buttons, seat covering, door latches.

 

5: Some speculation most recent 75 cars are now using a new battery architecture with improved cooling, we'll only know when someone in the US rips apart a new 75kWh battery pack.

 

Ofcourse your get more for you money interms of EVs come 2020, hence the Model 3 is half the price of the S/X but 90% as good.

 

But life is short and who knows what's coming down the line for any of us. I justify our car on the basis am a car nut and spending  £££ on cars is just what I do. Some people woudlnt get that, but cars for me have never been about saving money, it's about putting a smile on my face each time I get into the drivers seat, and the X has done that more than all my previous combined :).

 

I cannot wait to see what other EVs will be around come 2020. 

Edited by gangzoom
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I'm working in Cambridge at the moment.

 

Went into the mall last evening and on the left is Krispy Kreme and the right was Tesla.

 

I didn't know which to look at first! 2 that have no comparison :)

 

A few years ago when I first came across the S, was pre UK release days immediately knew I wanted in just by seeing it drive past it was easily noticeable as different. Soon realised this thing is in a different league. all I knew is that I wanted it so I went and bought shares in the company as it was the only way to get in at the time. Outside of roadster.

 

Sure gotta agree that either way I look at it that 0-60 is super impressive.

Model S with less than 5 years development+45min warm up+2.3 seconds in a family car V +100 years dev + all the big $ in the world and still can't do the most important and only bit that counts.
5 years further development time lookout!
I didn't know that about the warm up wait time but with that sort of behaviour that waiting time is normal. What crazy person gets out the front of their house in a cold car and dumps it?

 

As a car, there's no reason I'd go ICE over tesla.

 

As an motoring enthusiast, I'm of a view that my 76 LX Torana was modernised as much as I wanted it when I changed from points to electronic distributor(anyone tell me why use points?) I think they suck. And that's as far as I want to go. Interior gets Supra seats over the standard issue.

 

The 370z is nice with all the new stuff.  I figured the button on the door unlock it this year after 2 years of owning.

 

Is the Electrocet real?
 

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21 hours ago, gangzoom said:

We are only at the start of the EV development cycle compared to combustion cars. In a few years time sub 3 second 0-60 times will become normal for hot hatches.

 

The limit is mostly down to available traction and being most hot hatches are front wheel drive, physics will come into play, hp is irrelevant, at some point you have to put the power to the ground.

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^ Current hot hatches are FWD due to packaging issues - making them 4wd is expensive and loss interior space.

 

Going AWD or even RWD on an EV has hardly any impact on interior space as the motors essentially sit inline with the axle.

 

Once hub motors become economically viable it will become even easier for AWD. 

 

Had to respond to emergency call yesterday for work at midnight, the rate at which the X covered ground when rushed on empty roads is mad, and mine isn't even the quickest version. It's not just the 0-60, it's the way you get 100% torque the moment your right foot command it. It made my old 335i feel very pedestrian.

 

I cannot wait to try the same drivetrain in something that weighs a bit less, the brakes were moaning quite a bit once I parked up.....I do hope Tesla hurry up with Model 3 :).

Edited by gangzoom
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Of course, but front wheel/rwd/ to a degree 4wd, is mostly irrelevant, you limiting factor is tyres/traction, take a watch of some drag racing and see the kind of tyres they have to run to get the desired launches, its simple physics so not a chance hot hatches will be 3 second 0-60 anytime soon.

 

I watched and A45 Amg (4.6 0-60) take off at from standstill into a roundabout yesterday, i was genuinely shocked, there isnt a Tesla in the world that would be keeping up with that, unless your first name is Vin, second Diesel and the world was straights roads, its just pub and forum bragging rights and fruitless :) 

Edited by Jetpilot
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3 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

its simple physics so not a chance hot hatches will be 3 second 0-60 anytime soon.

 

I watched and A45 Amg (4.6 0-60) take off at from standstill into a roundabout yesterday, i was genuinely shocked, there isnt a Tesla in the world that would be keeping up with that.

 

A P100D can out drag a Lamborghini Huracan, until you drive one of the 'P' car you simply don't cannot understand how quickly they launch. A45 AMG is like a 1.0 Nissan Micra in comparison. 

 

Not sure why you don't think a hot hatch can get to 60 in 3 seconds when a 2.5 ton 5 metre long Model S can do it in under 2.5. The Model 3 weighs 800kg less than a S, but has the same battery voltage as the P85D. The only reason it wouldn't be able to hit 60 in under 3 seconds will be related to marketing and Tesla not wanting to the cheaper 3 to upset the more expensive S - A bit like Porsche with the not wanting anything to upset the 911. 

 

 

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There's a saying in Supra circles: How long does it take a standard supra to hit 60? 5.3 secs. How long for one with double the power? 5.3 secs.

Jetpilots point was more around getting the power down. Hot hatches front wheels have to pull the car as well as steer with most of the weight forward of the front wheels.  Sure they can launch quick but are rough to drive at the minute. 

I'll admit I don't know much about Tesla's but I assume they're not fwd with most of the weight forward of the steering axle. 

I appreciate that to each his own, but currently Tesla don't get my blood pumping. Yeah speed is great but some of my favourite cars are slow by today's standards, but to me they have soul.  Maybe I'm just old lol.

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