Stutopia Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Don't underestimate the level of complacency that the early polling and support of the bulk of the media caused May's election braintrust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I've never seen why a u-turn is a bad thing in politics. Absolutely, the thing I have an issue with is when they won't admit to making a U-Turn. I respect politicians when they say sorry I was wrong rather than trying to put a spin on it. Pete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Be interesting to see how Johnson and Gove get on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I've never seen why a u-turn is a bad thing in politics. Absolutely, the thing I have an issue with is when they won't admit to making a U-Turn. I respect politicians when they say sorry I was wrong rather than trying to put a spin on it. Pete It's mainly because they're supposed to know what they're doing before they do it, focus groups and polling and the like. Kind of like if you or I were making an important decision in life, we'd perhaps look into it before going ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 But we're only human, and sometimes I wish I could swap my pizza for a steak after ordering despite having gone through Tripadvisor several times checking what people said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Different ball game altogether although get the analogy. Any voter research done on something like dementia tax would have told you in an hour or two that it was a ridiculous idea to propose to your voter base. Called Theresa Maybe for a reason Problem is May tried to run the country like she ran the home office, micro managing everything and relying on an inner circle of a handful of people that lacked the experience to run the country. She didn't listen to public opinion and she didn't listen to experienced MPs in her own party and got the appropriate kicking up the backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Can we all just put things into a little prospective, in the tighest constituencies TM would still have held a majority with less than 400 more votes, ok she wasnt as popular as she thought, but still has 50 more seats than JC, Gordon Brown was kicked out for roughly the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 In something like 20 constituencies the Tories won by less and 500 votes - it really was that close. But agree a slight swing either way and we could have seen other results. Unfortunately her strapline of strong and stable has led to the most unstrong and unstable government, so I wonder when she is pressed on the issue again what the strapline will be Somewhat ironically, the result and May's selfish opportunism, total failure to capture the moment and in fact throw it away and to now clinging on to power as an unelected PM means a brexit that most brexiters didn't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 How do you know what most brexiters wanted...I admire youre poltical knowledge, but you really do make a lot of assumptions about what people have or havent voted for, I totally accept opinion and respect yours, but rash claims are another thing entirely, we have no idea what we are getting yet, so lets just wait and see what we get and whether we like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 OK fair enough - I guess based on what people I chatted to and the general consensus on the brexit thread. But hey yes am assuming its the harder brexit many wanted i.e. complete control over border movement, ability to build own trade deals with individual countries etc. which really leaves us by default outside the single market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 How do you know what most brexiters wanted...I admire youre poltical knowledge, but you really do make a lot of assumptions about what people have or havent voted for, I totally accept opinion and respect yours, but rash claims are another thing entirely, we have no idea what we are getting yet, so lets just wait and see what we get and whether we like it You forget that 48% of voters didn't want any sort of Brexit and I very much doubt that the entire remaining 52% actually wanted a hard Brexit. Even if 80% of them wanted a hard Brexit then well over 50% wanted either a soft Brexit or no Brexit at all. I believe that this election was to some extent the revenge of the remainers and a good result for democracy. Also, it's very clear another General Election will have to happen sooner rather than later, as it stands a few rebel conservatives will be able to block any legislation they don't like and what the DUP will do is anyone's guess....interesting times ahead I think. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Interesting/world of hurt/more money/time/b@llocks/wtf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 But we're only human, and sometimes I wish I could swap my pizza for a steak after ordering despite having gone through Tripadvisor several times checking what people said. And that's why you're not allowed to be PM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Can we all just put things into a little prospective, in the tighest constituencies TM would still have held a majority with less than 400 more votes, ok she wasnt as popular as she thought, but still has 50 more seats than JC, Gordon Brown was kicked out for roughly the same result. This might have been labelled a victory, if only a month prior to that she hadn't had a functioning majority, a clean run at Brexit and over three years before having to call an election. Instead she's handed power to the pro-Europeans within her own party, brought the dark ages back and overseen the biggest Labour increase in vote share since 1945. Whatever your perspective is, that's a strong and stable catastrophe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Well thats the exact point Stu, its not my prospective, its just some facts and freely admit its not gone as well as she thought as ive said but most of rthe est offered is just opinion and pie in the sky and nothing is written in stone about what will happen with Brexit. Edited June 13, 2017 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Well we shall see, I am personally very skeptical that we are in any shape to negotiate a good divorce from the EU. We have already wasted 3 months of the 24 we have available and Barnier has already been quoted this morning as being somewhat annoyed with the UK over the continued delays whilst they are sat there with their fully worked up plan ready to go. I think the general public have a bit too much trust in the government to have things in order, they are as culpable to complete **** ups like any business we shouldn't assume they are ready to go and everything is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Serves you all right, should have voted Buckethead. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/lord-buckethead/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 HUGE missed opportunity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The biggest problem is that we don't even know what we want, beyond the obviously laughable: - free access to the market - part of the customs union - end of free movement - end of ECJ jurisdiction - stop paying in - moon on a stick Tenner says we end up with what Norway has, which is all the rules, but no say in making them and still paying in, all to ensure clearing doesn't leave the precious ones in the City who still owe us a trillion pounds (which will be about 70 euros before long). Then we'll call it strong and stable FREEDOM! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Moon on a stick Edited June 16, 2017 by Jay84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 A few warning signs at the moment for me are around the exodus of EU workers from public services like the NHS when the country is pretty much at full employment at the moment. Also expect Poland to have a big say in what the EU agrees to with the largest representation of people in the UK. Biggest challenge will be the mess TM has made, that we do not have the strong and stable government any more she said was needed for Brexit, it makes me wonder what we will get then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So Dan the Tory, what do you make of the speech? Must be gutted you voted for Fox Hunting and its been dumped 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Growing up in the country I know a few people who aren't going to be pleased with that. I can't believe they fell for the idea something so politically toxic might have made a comeback Has anyone seen Emma Double-Barrelled from the DUP anti modern world negotiation team? I'd pretend to not believe in dinosaurs if she asked nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Apparently the DUP conversation (meant to be a one day thing remember!) is still ongoing due to the extra billions the DUP want spent in Northern Ireland as part of backing the supply and confidence agreement. Can't imagine the Scots and Welsh will be too happy about that. Especially as per head NI already get the highest spend of any home nation. Social Care dropped. Grammar Schools dropped. Fuel Price Caps dropped. Means Tested Heating dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I heard an interview on R2 saying they don't want foxing back as it'd take too much time to set it up again, they have no dogs etc any more. Its not like the law passes Friday, they can hunt Saturday. Its likely to take years. Not sure how true it is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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