Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Nice letter to receive on my 35th birthday, was getting all geared up for a great party today then I get a demand for hundreds of pounds through relating to an accident with a bus that happened six months ago. To cut a long story short: The bus was stationary in the middle of a tight road for god knows what reason and refused to move forward or into the bus stop despite everyone behind honking their horns for ages to get him to move over (Fulham road at 6pm!). People started manoeuvring around it including me. The space was too tight for the zed and I traded paint with the bus. Extremely superficial damage - most of it polished off and there was only some very light scratching to the rear quarter of the zed. The bus had minimal paintwork scuffing to the rear edge. We exchanged details, bus driver was very sanguine, said nothing would happen and that I shouldn't worry etc. Bus company sent me £50 in vouchers a few days later as an apology. I didn't bother calling my insurers because I believed that they had effectively admitted liability by sending the vouchers through and by apologising again over the phone for the incident. Furthermore I still believed the LUB driver was at fault and my excess was £400 at the time so nothing to gain by getting my insurers involved.They sent a damage assessor to view my car (came out with a crazy £2000 quote of course!), again implying that they were at fault etc. A week later they called to say that after reviewing the video footage (which I have not seen) that I was at fault because the bus was stationary when the damage occurred. I contested saying that I was forced to make the manoeuvre, which I thought I could do without damaging my pride and joy, due to severe traffic pressure behind me and that the bus refused to move forward to move left into the nearby bus stop (which had people waiting at it) despite all the honking behind me. That phone call was five months ago, and I didn't bother pursuing LUBL for damage to my car due to its superficiality and I haven't heard anything from them since until today. I thought that was the end of the affair. Now their solicitors have written demanding several hundred pounds in administration costs, PLUS other unexplained legal costs PLUS compensation for repair damage to the bus (which despite being a bottle of autoglym job, will no doubt cost a grand or two). They're demanding payment within 7 days of course and the letter is worded in a terse, demanding fashion. Can anyone recommend a strong / specialist solicitors people have used in this particular area? I guess location doesn't really matter but I'm based in East Sussex now. Any other tips and hints would be useful - I just can't believe a public service company are behaving in this fashion - come as a real shock. Thanks, DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't need a solicitor, just call your insurance company and explain. That's what they're there for, to fight your corner. Don't panic, just leave it up to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't need a solicitor, just call your insurance company and explain. That's what they're there for, to fight your corner. Don't panic, just leave it up to them. +1, get the insurance company to deal with it. Though am not sure where you stand if the incident was over 6 months ago and you haven't mentioned it to your insurance company already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Doesn't matter really, they might not be too surprised as I suspect they get this often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't need a solicitor, just call your insurance company and explain. That's what they're there for, to fight your corner. Don't panic, just leave it up to them. Will my insurers (admiral) be willing to deal with this six months after the incident occurred? I didn't contact them at all, for the aforementioned reasons. Furthermore I'm reticent to get them involved as I'm running a heavily modified car and have only held a license for 4 years - basically I'm (justifiably?) paranoid about what this could do to my premiums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't need a solicitor, just call your insurance company and explain. That's what they're there for, to fight your corner. Don't panic, just leave it up to them. ^ this and don't kack yourself about the wording of the sols letter......it'll be your usual ambulance chasing crowd template jobbie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Will my insurers (admiral) be willing to deal with this six months after the incident occurred? I didn't contact them at all, for the aforementioned reasons. Furthermore I'm reticent to get them involved as I'm running a heavily modified car and have only held a license for 4 years - basically I'm (justifiably?) paranoid about what this could do to my premiums... They'll be fine with it. Unless you've got the money to cough up to the letter, then you need to speak to them. At the end of the day though you were in the wrong, as the bus was stationary and you were moving so this will be an at-fault claim. What do you think will be less, a higher premium next year or the hundreds of pounds the bus company want? Your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I had something similar a few years back. I was parked turning right in my Range Rover on a road with double white lines the traffic was clear for me to turn, just as I started to turn I was hit on the side by a motor bike that was trying to overtake me on the right miles over the double white lines. He and his girlfriend who was on the pillion ended up in a garden 50 yards away from where they hit me. Police and ambulance were called, police took a witness statement from the driver behind me who said the biker was a nutter who was showing off and tried to overtake me just as I turned. Anyway cut a long story short, the biker and girlfriend were OK after a few days in hospital. Police said they were fully to blame so my insurance company were dealing with it, I thought no more about it until I got a personal demand for damages to his bike compensation for their injuries from The Post Office Union on behalf of a Members Daughter..!!. I sent it to my insurance Company and popped into my local nick who were dealing with it. The office who attended the accident said "well we can soon stop this" so they went and nicked him for Dangerous Driving and overtaking at a junction on the wrong side of the road. He got fined £500, banned for 3 months and 6 penalty points. End of problem with The Post Office Union trying to sue me. The police were not going to take any action until the Post Office Union got involved, so they didn't really do the biker any favours, bet the Union then tried to sue him as he was proven to be at fault..!! Edited May 10, 2014 by WhackyWill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'd just pay and not inform the insurance. The bus was stationary and they have video evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodder Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'd just pay and not inform the insurance. The bus was stationary and they have video evidence. You will still have to declare at renewal time so you won't save anything by going this route. If they ask and you don't declare you could be refused insurance and that will be even more expense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'd just pay and not inform the insurance. The bus was stationary and they have video evidence. You will still have to declare at renewal time so you won't save anything by going this route. If they ask and you don't declare you could be refused insurance and that will be even more expense.... I renewed mid-Feb and did not inform them of the "accident", and was not aware I had to declare anything involve scuffs to paintwork. Do you have to inform them about tesco dings, multistorey scrapes and bumper chips too? I'm inclined to avoid Admiral completely as I don't fancy being punted around a dozen call centres for six months only to end up with my premium being doubled at the next renewal. However, I believe that if the bus company's solicitors detect any weakness or admission of liability the £200 will suddenly jump to £4,000 in other fees and costs etc. DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodder Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I meant now they are pursuing and it comes to renewal next year Edit: My first post was in response to Kev's advice. Ekona and other have already given you the right advice in my opinion, let the insurance company sort it as if you settle direct and don't inform your insurance as a. You are at fault, the bus was stationary. B. You will pay more than your excess. C. The bus companies insurance will log that you were at fault and paid up which your insurance company will find out about increasing your premium. D. If you don't declare and they find out your insurance will be null and void resulting in you being declined insurance That is how I see it anyway. Good luck Edited May 10, 2014 by Fodder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'd just pay and not inform the insurance. The bus was stationary and they have video evidence. Disagree, they had previously admitted some kind of liability by sending him £50 apology money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 That wouldn't be admitting any kind of liability. Courts wouldn't view that as it either, unless there was a letter saying that they accepted full liability for it, which I'm guessing there wasn't. The bus company will say it's an apology for holding the traffic up due to a malfunction with the bus, and that DT should still not have proceeded as there was not enough room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I renewed mid-Feb and did not inform them of the "accident", and was not aware I had to declare anything involve scuffs to paintwork. Do you have to inform them about tesco dings, multistorey scrapes and bumper chips too? If you believe that, then I have to say you're a bit naive mate. Accident will be defined as anything which causes damage to the vehicle, another vehicle, or any other object or person as an educated guess. That definitely included dings and scrapes, but not bumper chips (although I assume that was a facetious addition). You should've informed them in Feb, so this may well now bit you in the arse as they'll chase you for increased premium. Sometimes, it's ALWAYS worth telling your insurers, and sucking it up. We all make mistakes sometimes, no shame in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 I meant now they are pursuing and it comes to renewal next year Edit: My first post was in response to Kev's advice. Ekona and other have already given you the right advice in my opinion, let the insurance company sort it as if you settle direct and don't inform your insurance as a. You are at fault, the bus was stationary. B. You will pay more than your excess. C. The bus companies insurance will log that you were at fault and paid up which your insurance company will find out about increasing your premium. D. If you don't declare and they find out your insurance will be null and void resulting in you being declined insurance That is how I see it anyway. Good luck Understood. And I'd have more confidence to approach Admiral if they weren't so monumentally incompetent. I agree with your points but it's very annoying that I don't even appear to have the right to treat any incident involving my car as a private matter, regardless of how insignificant it is. I guess that's just the nature of the beast these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 London bus's don't have insurance, they have a bond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 I renewed mid-Feb and did not inform them of the "accident", and was not aware I had to declare anything involve scuffs to paintwork. Do you have to inform them about tesco dings, multistorey scrapes and bumper chips too? If you believe that, then I have to say you're a bit naive mate. Accident will be defined as anything which causes damage to the vehicle, another vehicle, or any other object or person as an educated guess. That definitely included dings and scrapes, but not bumper chips (although I assume that was a facetious addition). You should've informed them in Feb, so this may well now bit you in the arse as they'll chase you for increased premium. Sometimes, it's ALWAYS worth telling your insurers, and sucking it up. We all make mistakes sometimes, no shame in that. In all seriousness where do you draw the line though? I can't imagine any insurer wanting to be updated about every car park ding - that's patently ridiculous. There was effectively no point telling the insurers because there was basically no damage worth pursuing and the bus company acted as though the matter was dead and buried by mid-Jan (prior to renewal), and I heard nothing back from them about pursuing me for damage until today. The last thing I want is the insurance company AND the bus company chasing me for money, particularly as I've been unemployed for over a year and am up to my eyeballs in debt. Incidentally I'm pretty sure that the insurance docs I signed only asked me to inform them about any "claims" I had made, not about damage to or incidents involving the car (does anyone have the policy wording?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 London bus's don't have insurance, they have a bond. Which presumably means they have no insurance company to report the incident to? This would be a very good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyZ Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't have to claim but you have to report it. It's written in the contract so they could technically revoke your insurance for breaking the terms. What makes you call them monumentally incompetent? Have you had a bad experience with them before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 That wouldn't be admitting any kind of liability. Courts wouldn't view that as it either, unless there was a letter saying that they accepted full liability for it, which I'm guessing there wasn't. The bus company will say it's an apology for holding the traffic up due to a malfunction with the bus, and that DT should still not have proceeded as there was not enough room. Not sure I agree with that, they presumably didn't get the names and addresses of all those who were held up, the bus driver, I guess reported the incident and one would think he maybe admitted to his bosses that he caused some kind of problem, hence the goodwill voucher. Agree though that knowing the contents of the letter DT received would clarify things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 You don't have to claim but you have to report it. It's written in the contract so they could technically revoke your insurance for breaking the terms. What makes you call them monumentally incompetent? Have you had a bad experience with them before? Whilst I haven't read the 400 page insurance contract the abridge docs I have read made no mention of this requirement, only if I'd made any "claims, fault or non-fault". Having dealt with admiral call centres on numerous hear-tearing occasions I can confidently say that they should be avoided if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I had a car bounce off a bus that pulled out in front of it and speared across the road and into my parked car as I was getting out of it almost hit me as well.. This took ages to sort out, I claimed off the driver who hit me, but he wouldn't have hit me if the bus hadn't pulled out, I know he had major problems claiming as it was all handled by London Transport, as they put up a certain amount of money as a bond instead of having insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Turtle Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 That wouldn't be admitting any kind of liability. Courts wouldn't view that as it either, unless there was a letter saying that they accepted full liability for it, which I'm guessing there wasn't. The bus company will say it's an apology for holding the traffic up due to a malfunction with the bus, and that DT should still not have proceeded as there was not enough room. Not sure I agree with that, they presumably didn't get the names and addresses of all those who were held up, the bus driver, I guess reported the incident and one would think he maybe admitted to his bosses that he caused some kind of problem, hence the goodwill voucher. Agree though that knowing the contents of the letter DT received would clarify things. I don't think I have the letter any more (though this matter was buried months ago) but I recall that it was worded so as to explicitly avoid stating liability, but likewise did not specifically deny liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Oh well, a legal point to be argued then by your insurance co, i'm sure they could extract a copy from London Busses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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