Chromatic Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I've been sketching out some ideas to improve the airflow of my Dual intake HR '08 from the Airboxes to the bumper.. And ran across this which is mostly to keep engine temps a few degree's lower (these do work.. been independently tested, so it's not just "style".. though many get them just for looks..).. Where I live from Late March till Late October it's 32c to 44c (32c is a cooler day and 44c would be the extreme).. So it's quite hot for most of the year here. So every degree helps. This would also give me something to add some L shaped fabricated tubing mounts to (to direct the air from the lower bumper directly into the two slots on the 07/08 350's air box entrance tubes/air boxes). Anyhow.. Here's what I'm referring to: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-350Z-Air-Diversion-Panel-CARBON-FIBER-/321214575993?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A350Z&hash=item4ac9e17579&vxp=mtr On a second Gen 350: That's how it would be on my vehicle.. (Except I use the factory air boxes with drop in perf. filters due to the better performance they give over the other IN engine bay systems). Just curious your thoughts on these? Anyone have them on a second Gen 350 (basically if you have Two intakes/airboxes..HR) ? Carbon fiber is cool looking, but I'd be perfectly fine with a plain one like the above.. for half the price. Seems to me like they would also help air flow to both the Airboxes on the second Generations as right now the air coming in from the bumper obviously flows up where this panel goes .. thus adding said panel would create slightly more airflow to the two side holes that each air intake box pulls from. I know they aren't advertised or meant for that,... But it must help due to general airflow dynamics. (measurable? probably not.. At 50mph+ probably so). But for lowering temps 5-6 degree's alone is enough to warrant $65 for one, imo. Just wanted to get your opinions, thoughts, et al.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I've actually got one very similar to the one pictured on my 350 in carbon fibre (from Tarmac Sportz) and I think it's a nice simple, good looking mod. Not sure if it increases much air flow to my single filtered DE engine but it looks pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) I've actually got one very similar to the one pictured on my 350 in carbon fibre (from Tarmac Sportz) and I think it's a nice simple, good looking mod. Not sure if it increases much air flow to my single filtered DE engine but it looks pretty. It has to.. There's no question. You block the escaping air from where the plate sits, via the plate and the air will go the area of least resistance -- Which is the remaining exit which happens to be your Air intake slot. Anyhow -- After doing the plate,.. I've been thinking of fabricating out of some sort of Plastic, Silicone, or other material some Sealed "pipe/tubing" to help direct airflow to the Intake Boxes -- (Just to make 100% of the Air flow directly to the Intakes.. ) I did a 1 minute mock-up in MSPaint of what I'm talking about (Pictures are much easier to understand). Make sense? -- This tubing would end just past the opening you see there.. it wouldn't go way down into the front bumper or anything.. And I would seal it to the Airboxes with black epoxy or similar. Decent idea? -- I know it won't make any huge difference, but the airflow would just be benefited by this plate I mentioned, and then fabricating some rectangular piping/tubing and sealing it so all the air goes to the intakes that gets pushed up through those two holes. Anyone have any ideas of some material that would be easy to work with for something like this? Seems like a $5-$10 cost fab job to me.. Just not sure exactly where or what material to get to make it happen.. just started hashing this out recently.. -- I'd just do it in something black,.. if the material wasn't already black, I'd paint it which gives me the options to "Dress" it however I wanted.. Carbon fiber (skin), Black, Silver, Red, Blue, whatever.. But it's for functionality not so much "looks" at all. Edited February 23, 2014 by Chromatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) They're pretty much just bling and do nothing unless you're ragging the ass off the car all day at the track. They will of course send a bit more air the filters way, but it can only suck so much. It'll make more difference to the coolant temperature because there's another 10-15% more air being sent through the radiator. Edited February 23, 2014 by KyleR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Forgot to add: They look awesome 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 They're pretty much just bling and do nothing unless you're ragging the ass off the car all day at the track. They will of course send a bit more air the filters way, but it can only suck so much. It'll make more difference to the coolant temperature because there's another 10-15% more air being cents through the radiator. That's fairly accurate -- Except I don't agree with that they are bling unless you are running at the track.. Even just normal driving in the heat around here it will help to some small degree.. But.. Just the normal 2nd, 3rd gear punches REALLY increase temps.. And some testing has shown this over several of these (on a 240sx mind you) -- But it seems pretty fair and conservative with results. Showing Idle doing nothing (as expected) -- And pushing the car a bit in 2nd and 3rd gear (for this test) made 10+ degree differences.. which to me, is substantial. For me it's 50% air flow to filter maximization and 50% helping the cooling in average of 40c daytime temps. Here's a good explanation of what they do, and the test I'm referring to: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_0908_diversion_panels/ Worth a read imo. Now what percentage of air "more" is being directed and not lost to the Radiator is a figure I don't think we know.. I assume you just did a wild guess with that 10-15% figure -- But all that matters is more = more.. And efficiency is better. With this car a bunch of small efficiency mods eventually add up to something. Just like the bolt ons for the car do. They are 5-10hp usually per $500-$1500 bolt on,.. but you do 3 of them it becomes a difference maker. I don't know if it's because the Second Gen's are so damn efficient in their design, or what.. but it's HARD to add NA power to this car staying out of the internals of the engine. I've put in thousands already.. and the three "bolt ons" are Changing the single exhaust to Dual exhaust with the Invidia Gemini Cat-back with larger piping,.. -- Dropping in higher flowing filters -- and Removing the incredibly restrictive Catalytic converters,.. Each on it's own isn't that much,,.. but add the three up with a proper tune and You are looking at 30+ horsepower -- Without tune maybe 15-20hp. But that's getting off subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Forgot to add: They look awesome Agreed, looks great. What I don't like about the ones designed like that (That go OVER the intake from the lower bumper, just where it feeds up to go into the intake hole) is it's making the cooler airflow less efficient for the intake itself. Now you have a Cone filter in the engine bay so it's going to pull hot air in by default anyways, so no big difference,.. but for the more efficient redesign on the Gen 2 Z33's covering those "holes" that the cooler air comes in the front from the outside air, and goes up through the holes, then into the airbox inlet holes would be a step backwards (for my intentions). On the flip,.. the purpose of that design on the older 350's is to maximize the air completely to the radiator.. So your plate would keep your radiator cooler than the one on my car like this: I can't even remember what the 1st gen 350 single intake factory looks like.. but it must not pull from that area like the 2nd gen 350's.. or at least not very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Can I just check......are we having a thread about your average bog standard done a million times slam panel here or is there something im missing? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.r123 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Forgot to add: They look awesome Looking very cool Kyle if you like orange so much you should have bought a Sunset (the best colour) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You can buy slam panels from the club shop, including having your forum name engraved on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You can buy slam panels from the club shop, including having your forum name engraved on them. How much are they Lexx ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 They're pretty much just bling and do nothing unless you're ragging the ass off the car all day at the track. They will of course send a bit more air the filters way, but it can only suck so much. It'll make more difference to the coolant temperature because there's another 10-15% more air being cents through the radiator. That's fairly accurate -- Except I don't agree with that they are bling unless you are running at the track.. Even just normal driving in the heat around here it will help to some small degree.. But.. Just the normal 2nd, 3rd gear punches REALLY increase temps.. And some testing has shown this over several of these (on a 240sx mind you) -- But it seems pretty fair and conservative with results. Showing Idle doing nothing (as expected) -- And pushing the car a bit in 2nd and 3rd gear (for this test) made 10+ degree differences.. which to me, is substantial. For me it's 50% air flow to filter maximization and 50% helping the cooling in average of 40c daytime temps. Here's a good explanation of what they do, and the test I'm referring to: http://www.importtun...version_panels/ Worth a read imo. Now what percentage of air "more" is being directed and not lost to the Radiator is a figure I don't think we know.. I assume you just did a wild guess with that 10-15% figure -- But all that matters is more = more.. And efficiency is better. With this car a bunch of small efficiency mods eventually add up to something. Just like the bolt ons for the car do. They are 5-10hp usually per $500-$1500 bolt on,.. but you do 3 of them it becomes a difference maker. I don't know if it's because the Second Gen's are so damn efficient in their design, or what.. but it's HARD to add NA power to this car staying out of the internals of the engine. I've put in thousands already.. and the three "bolt ons" are Changing the single exhaust to Dual exhaust with the Invidia Gemini Cat-back with larger piping,.. -- Dropping in higher flowing filters -- and Removing the incredibly restrictive Catalytic converters,.. Each on it's own isn't that much,,.. but add the three up with a proper tune and You are looking at 15 horsepower -- Without tune maybe 0-5hp. But that's getting off subject. Fixed that for you Don't forget the slam panel isn't really covering anything, there is a bit of a hole in the middle where the catch is, thats it, thats all thats being covered. Yes my 10-15% was a guess, it's probably less, more like 5%. Making power NA on the 350Z is not specifically hard for the HR (3rd Gen actually) it's hard for all of them. The only extra modification that I can do to my DE that you can't is a plenum spacer, but the HR, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't suffer from starvation to any cylinders. Forgot to add: They look awesome Agreed, looks great. What I don't like about the ones designed like that (That go OVER the intake from the lower bumper, just where it feeds up to go into the intake hole) is it's making the cooler airflow less efficient for the intake itself. Now you have a Cone filter in the engine bay so it's going to pull hot air in by default anyways, so no big difference,.. but for the more efficient redesign on the Gen 2 Z33's covering those "holes" that the cooler air comes in the front from the outside air, and goes up through the holes, then into the airbox inlet holes would be a step backwards (for my intentions). On the flip,.. the purpose of that design on the older 350's is to maximize the air completely to the radiator.. So your plate would keep your radiator cooler than the one on my car like this: I can't even remember what the 1st gen 350 single intake factory looks like.. but it must not pull from that area like the 2nd gen 350's.. or at least not very much. If you look again at my picture you will see that slam panel doesn't affect airflow near the intake, it follows the bumpers line so as not to block off air, the hole is not covered, even a little bit. Also if you look at my picture again, you will also see that air is pulled from the exact same place in DE and HR Zeds, HR just have an additional hole on the drivers side, pax side to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You can buy slam panels from the club shop, including having your forum name engraved on them. How much are they Lexx ?. Apologies Will, it seems we are no longer able to get hold of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I just had a read through that article. You do realize that it's taking about coolant temps, right? Also, as you mentioned, the test is with a Silvia, which has a completely opened from frame, unlike the 350 which is pretty much closed. So yes, they may have seen 10F lower temps, but you won't see that in the Zed. In fact, you will see less of a difference in you HR than I will my DE. So moral of the story: Buy one, they look awesome, but don't do @*!# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDON Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I can do the slam panels with engraving on them just for you guys info for the future! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My slam panel has the intake bit covered to help a little to direct air towards the air filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Delete this please.. this post wasn't worth potentially upsetting someone unintentionally Thanks Edited February 24, 2014 by Chromatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) They're pretty much just bling and do nothing unless you're ragging the ass off the car all day at the track. They will of course send a bit more air the filters way, but it can only suck so much. It'll make more difference to the coolant temperature because there's another 10-15% more air being cents through the radiator. That's fairly accurate -- Except I don't agree with that they are bling unless you are running at the track.. Even just normal driving in the heat around here it will help to some small degree.. But.. Just the normal 2nd, 3rd gear punches REALLY increase temps.. And some testing has shown this over several of these (on a 240sx mind you) -- But it seems pretty fair and conservative with results. Showing Idle doing nothing (as expected) -- And pushing the car a bit in 2nd and 3rd gear (for this test) made 10+ degree differences.. which to me, is substantial. For me it's 50% air flow to filter maximization and 50% helping the cooling in average of 40c daytime temps. Here's a good explanation of what they do, and the test I'm referring to: http://www.importtun...version_panels/ Worth a read imo. Now what percentage of air "more" is being directed and not lost to the Radiator is a figure I don't think we know.. I assume you just did a wild guess with that 10-15% figure -- But all that matters is more = more.. And efficiency is better. With this car a bunch of small efficiency mods eventually add up to something. Just like the bolt ons for the car do. They are 5-10hp usually per $500-$1500 bolt on,.. but you do 3 of them it becomes a difference maker. I don't know if it's because the Second Gen's are so damn efficient in their design, or what.. but it's HARD to add NA power to this car staying out of the internals of the engine. I've put in thousands already.. and the three "bolt ons" are Changing the single exhaust to Dual exhaust with the Invidia Gemini Cat-back with larger piping,.. -- Dropping in higher flowing filters -- and Removing the incredibly restrictive Catalytic converters,.. Each on it's own isn't that much,,.. but add the three up with a proper tune and You are looking at 15 horsepower -- Without tune maybe 0-5hp. But that's getting off subject. Fixed that for you Don't forget the slam panel isn't really covering anything, there is a bit of a hole in the middle where the catch is, thats it, thats all thats being covered. Yes my 10-15% was a guess, it's probably less, more like 5%. Making power NA on the 350Z is not specifically hard for the HR (3rd Gen actually) it's hard for all of them. The only extra modification that I can do to my DE that you can't is a plenum spacer, but the HR, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't suffer from starvation to any cylinders. Forgot to add: They look awesome Agreed, looks great. What I don't like about the ones designed like that (That go OVER the intake from the lower bumper, just where it feeds up to go into the intake hole) is it's making the cooler airflow less efficient for the intake itself. Now you have a Cone filter in the engine bay so it's going to pull hot air in by default anyways, so no big difference,.. but for the more efficient redesign on the Gen 2 Z33's covering those "holes" that the cooler air comes in the front from the outside air, and goes up through the holes, then into the airbox inlet holes would be a step backwards (for my intentions). On the flip,.. the purpose of that design on the older 350's is to maximize the air completely to the radiator.. So your plate would keep your radiator cooler than the one on my car like this: I can't even remember what the 1st gen 350 single intake factory looks like.. but it must not pull from that area like the 2nd gen 350's.. or at least not very much. If you look again at my picture you will see that slam panel doesn't affect airflow near the intake, it follows the bumpers line so as not to block off air, the hole is not covered, even a little bit. Also if you look at my picture again, you will also see that air is pulled from the exact same place in DE and HR Zeds, HR just have an additional hole on the drivers side, pax side to you. Ok Air Diversion panel = Slam Panel? When I think of "slam" I think of people lowering cars.. but I'm new to the whole air div. panels to begin with.. So if that's the world's term for them,.. so be it As for the hole being covered or not.. I'm going to need to go look at my setup again, and if it's the way I think it is I'll take a pic, and sketch it with Paint or something to show what I'm referring to. But, first, I'm not referring to the hole going horizontal into the engine.. it's obviously not obscured. If you say it's not covered, then it's not. Maybe I'm just mistaken on the way the air flows up from the lower bumper,.. More on this in a few hours when I go take a quick look ** Also, the angle of the pics we've shown.. Don't show the gap between the bumper and air intake slots/holes -- Which is where some of this debate is coming from. I see the DE panel still follows the line/lip of the material already there and doesn't extend backwards further than this.. So you are right you are getting the same air to your intake "hole/slot" with or without that panel there. Edited February 24, 2014 by Chromatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I just had a read through that article. You do realize that it's taking about coolant temps, right? Also, as you mentioned, the test is with a Silvia, which has a completely opened from frame, unlike the 350 which is pretty much closed. So yes, they may have seen 10F lower temps, but you won't see that in the Zed. In fact, you will see less of a difference in you HR than I will my DE. So moral of the story: Buy one, they look awesome, but don't do @*!# Heh,.. Yes I realize the car it was performed on -- I had a Silvia from 2005-2007,.. The point of linking that was to give a good idea to people who run across the thread what these things do.. That's all. And, eliminating what I would refer to as slight "leaks" of air from going up instead of directly forward to the radiator is going to increase efficiency. As I said before, would it be measurable.. maybe not,.. But the price point of this stuff is dirt cheap when considering anything for the Zed that it's worth a try. I would fabricate my own (and possibly still might) If I felt up to the job,.. but, since they are so inexpensive (if you price it out, and esp. if you buy a used one).. that it's one of those things better bought than made (unless you just really enjoy metal work, etc.) As for them not doing anything on the Zed's.. and *less* on my HR.. we can just agree to disagree. Maybe I'll do a full on test with the HR and the Panels + without and Temp differences. Yes, I know it's meant solely for Coolant temps.. they are made to keep air diverted more efficiently to the Radiator - They are not made for diverting air to intakes.. This doesn't mean it won't help more air to some small degree go to the two intakes on the HR via the holes Vertically the Intakes get their air from (via the lower bumper and out the front grill). -- Again I will need to go look at my engine bay again and take a pic and sketch it a bit to show "why" this is so -- OR, I'm totally WAY off base with air flow to my Intakes. But I don't think I am as I wouldn't have been considering this idea of the extra tubing I would fabricate to direct air "completely" from the lower bumper alone. Yes, I realize the hood acts as the 'seal' for the air to get pulled to the intake location.. But it's not as efficient as it could be. If I'm wrong with what I have pictured in my mind,.. I will be the first to say so! lol. And, guys,.. I'm not expecting any massive results with the purpose these are built for (temps to engine/radiator).. or even with my fabrication idea I plan on doing. But, if I can relatively cheaply make something a few percent more efficient .. I will do so. Air temp monitors are quite easy -- I have a few already.. CFM monitors I'll look into to see if they are relatively cheap -- if so, I can do real world tests on what I'm talking about to show (or debunk) any advantage to what I am going to do. Edited February 24, 2014 by Chromatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsniss350z Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Shame you missed the clearance sale Mishimoto did on these about 6 to 8 weeks ago where they were selling them for £15 a go. Suffice to say they ran out of stock pretty damn quick as people were buying them in multiples, you could have bought a couple and could have afforded to chop a couple up to get what you really wanted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Shame you missed the clearance sale Mishimoto did on these about 6 to 8 weeks ago where they were selling them for £15 a go. Suffice to say they ran out of stock pretty damn quick as people were buying them in multiples, you could have bought a couple and could have afforded to chop a couple up to get what you really wanted. Yeah, I'm in the US though.. so not sure how that would have worked out. But my vendor I go through in the states got me a Mishimoto for $70 shipped,.. which was about $26 cheaper than anywhere I could find elsewhere. I "chopped" it up with my dremel and it fits nicely on my 2008. Here it is,.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsniss350z Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 That's a tidy looking job you've done there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 That's a tidy looking job you've done there. Looks can be deceiving.. No seriously.. I think it turned out well.. I won't lie.. I made a few mistakes which were mainly the Dremel at 15-20k rpm getting away from me holding with one hand and nicking the plate.. but I touched the few spots up temporarily.. and if those don't hold I'll take some proper paint to the few nicks on it. Overall though, I'm pleased with the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Got to be said though Chromatic that the Dremel is one of my favourite tools. So versatile and I've had mine for years now without it letting me down once. You should be pleased with the plate ~ looks great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Got to be said though Chromatic that the Dremel is one of my favourite tools. So versatile and I've had mine for years now without it letting me down once. You should be pleased with the plate ~ looks great. Thanks! And absolutely.. I've been abusing my Dremel the last 3+ months.. Everything I've done I've used it nearly.. From Audio work fabrication, Exhaust trimming.. to even cutting the Silicone on those Mishimoto intake tubes.. I don't know of a project I've done so far I haven't used it (maybe some wiring of the under strut bar lights or something ).. but on my hatch brackets I used it.. used it constantly during the audio install, making my amp rack, cutting wood, opening the mounting holes on the SRQ box for the Sub,.. the Air diversion plate, Mishimoto Silicone Z-tubes, the list goes on.. The dremel is without a SINGLE doubt my favorite tool.. if anyone doesn't have one.. GO BUY ONE ! They are dirt cheap.. and I dare you to find a more versatile tool. It's invaluable. I mean even hot women use them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.