gazhull8474 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Totally agree with the comments above especially if you get a boy racer 17 yr old passes in the summer months that sometimes we have no rain or bad weather. First bid of bad weather we have probably forgot where the wipers are on their motor so they should do the year training and pass more than just the basic 1 hour assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 IAM course is £139 http://www.iam.org.uk/car_driver_member ... e.tpl.html Not as much as you might think..... It at least will equip you to deal with numpties on the road better. The speed limit is a LIMIT. People do not understand that there is a often a need to drive slower than the posted limit. Personally my parents paid for me to do Pass Plus and it was booked the day I passed my test. I was lucky that I got that little heads up at the start of my driving career. My work also make me do defensive driving course each year along with theory and I get skid pan training every two years for free. These little things do make a difference. Being out on a motorbike does make you far more aware of your surroundings as every other road user wants to kill you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I think the speed limits on our roads are about right although if I'm cruising on a motorway it's usually around the 80mph mark. As for speeding tickets the speed limit is just that, a limit not a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Being out on a motorbike does make you far more aware of your surroundings as every other road user wants to kill you! Don't even need a motor in your bike for that to be true, I am one of the oft cursed cycle commuters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I completely agree with most of the things said by all of you. Being and import (lol) i did not learn or pass my driving test here, so cannot comment if tests are too easy etc, however judging by the vast majority of road users there have to be some huge changes done to the drivers training system. IMHO the biggest problem is not the speed itself, but distraction and lack of basic ability to asses road situations. Few things of the top of my head i very strongly feel should be taught to every new driver: - correct use of lights in different situations and low beam always on (i understand some wont agree with me here, but think how much more visible you are to other road users in EVERY weather condition), not anti-fog or position lights, not to mention high-beam; - mirrors, mirrors, mirrors! -- they are in every car, and three of them for a reason (one of the reasons why it is safe to travel on a german motorway at pretty much any speed is that you can be certain no one will change lane without making sure it is safe to do so), - few hours motorway driving during the day, heavy traffic, night time, rain/snow, including joining, leaving, overtaking - how to read road traffic and how to predict what other drivers might do at any given moment - for the love of god, please use indicators BEFORE, not AFTER executing a maneuver - make it a habit! find yourself indicate even on an empty road - lane discipline - no, it is not cool to hog middle or fast lane and people who do so should be fined just as the ones who speed (again - Germany) These are just few i could think of just now, probably because they bug me most. Also think there are way too many driving schools with too many @*!# drivers/instructors teaching new ones same stupidity. Young drivers are still the most 'risky' and reckless ones, me belonging to the age group (see link below) but bad training will make any driver, regardless of age, dangerous. I really hope my post will not be seen as thread hi-jacking. I merely pointed these few things out as i feel until the training changes there are no hopes for raising speed limits, in fact im pretty sure we will soon see most of them lowered even more. Also I'm not saying im the best driver in the world. But I have been driving for 6 years, never had an accident (touches wood lol) or scratch, or even a speeding ticket (well that one has probably more to do with luck, even though I dont usually speed and if so, its more a case of doing 80-85 on motorway than 35 in residential area). I have been moving around for a while, driving in many countries and so far I haven't seen better motorists than the German ones. aus P.S. something to *sigh* at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdH40VS59rE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austin Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 lane discipline is shocking in the UK as is driving standards. they have made the test harder than when i sat it, but only really focussing on round town driving. i passed 2nd time, but i here of some people taking 7 or 8 attempts i think there should be limits to the amount of times you can take it. Biscuits road laws: ... - once passed not only are you on a 2 year probation but your limited to up to a 1.1 litre car. - after 2 years your allowed to progress to up to a 1.4 litre car - after 2 years of 1.4's your allowed up to 2 litre and after that you can drive what you like ... Biscuits, I can't agree with you here - just because I own a 350z doesnt mean i always accelerate in 5.9sec and drive at 155 (167)mph. My bestie got a gallardo as a graduation present from his parents, he's also 23 and a decent driver. I'm not scared being in the same car with him as he never does weird, scary, or dangerous sh*t on the road. On the other hand other mate i know wrote off his mothers 1.4 golf, because he was showing off and didn't have enough skills and/or imagination (at least he was fine and hopefully learnt his lesson). aus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruddles Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I think you'll find it all comes down to the mentality of the individual as to whether they're going to be an unsafe driver in terms of teens and young drivers. I'm only 23, but I was quite silly in my first few cars, because I didn't have an awful lot of power and wanted to show off! I'm not afraid to admit it, because of some of the silly things I did It has made me a far better driver today! After the first 2 cars I settled down and spent little to no money on the next two 'just' so I could get a far superior car than pretty much anyone around my age or until they're late 20's! I would fully welcome a much better training regime for first time drivers, perhaps a walk and talk around some recovery garages so they can see the remnants of exactly what 'will' happen if they start acting stupid in a car! It's usually the passengers that are injured more-so than the driver anyway! Sorry verging off topic a bit here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demolition49 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 The problem is you cannot blanket cover or generalise everybody under a certain age group, or whatever it may be, each individual case is different, this goes for benefits as-well, i was having a political discussion with a friend and we both agree its hard to say who does and doesn't deserve benefits! Anyway that's a bit off-topic... i passed my test 3-4 years ago and the test was thorough.... much harder than it used to be, older people now wouldn't have much chance... to be honest i see drivers 50+ being cocks and then 17,18 being cocks too... its not about the age its about maturity and even if we all pass the test and its super hard doesn't mean the minute we get in the car on our own we will drive the way we did in our test... we all know the "proper" way to drive, how many of us actually do it, this is the issue... enforcing it... that is why the speed limit is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I hear what you say Josh but older drivers are by definition "more experienced" ..... I don't belt round bends these days cos I know there might be a queue of traffic on the other side, but I did do some stupid things when I was younger ... fortunately I got away with it but I'm now more aware of the consequences of driving recklessly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 what i said about engine limiting if you read it all i also said there are exceptions to the rule, what you have to remember is that the majority of the under 24 age group on the road are still the highest risk bracket. especially if your male. proof in point, why else is insurance astronomically high for under 24's: why is it insurance gets cheaper the more experience you have, and also the less crashes you have? why is it women get cheaper car insurance compared to a male equal? why is it that most road campaigns are aimed at the under 24's most of the people in the commercials are all male and in there 20's? like it or not under 24's are high risk drivers, you may not be, and some of your friends may not be, but the majority of your peers are. i'm not saying older people all driver better, but the experience tends to count for more. if you'd lie another example i can post the nice picture up of the side of my wifes car. on sunday driving home on the A1M from a wedding. we were traveling in the outside lane overtaking 2 cars just as we were on the rear quarter of the first car in the overtaking maneuver he decided to pull out and over take as well. we travelled 3 abreast on a dual carriage way. my wife had to off road the vehicle and run about an inch from the barrier as said muppet proceeded to scrape down the side of my wifes 1 month old brand new car. we had pulled in to the outside lane a good distance back and were visible for about 1/4 mile before the maneuver. not only that but my wifes car is a huge lump. you couldn't miss it if you were blind. we are now in the process of sorting out the insurance. the driver was... male...and ... under 24. he didn't check his mirrors and pulled out as he indicated, which at that point was too late. yes it could have been a woman, or an older person, but it wasn't, it took alot of effort on my behalf not to pound his head into the curb, but i kept it polite, collected the details and rang the insurers. if it wasn't for my wifes quick reaction and the fact that she didn't panic, it could have been a whole lot worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Just look at the road stats for Aberdeenshire - About 300k people live in the region and it has pretty much the highest death toll on roads in the UK. I think after the 19 year old lad in a mini cooper died yesterday that was up to 11 or 13 I'm sure for the year. The authorities are happy as the figure has fallen from previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceaser Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Just reading this post with some interest as i travel on motorways and A roads daily in my Z. iirc the 70mph limit was introduced as a backlash to an AC Cobra (or was it a jag) claiming in their marketing that the car did 150mph down one of the motorways. As many people have said, imposing a 70mph limit back then definately didnt trouble too many of the cars on the road at the time, moggy minors etc. I definately think the limit should be set to 80, especially as its possible to be fined whilst on a clear motorway in good conditions in a car built for going twice as fast just cause some sneaky bugger is hiding somewhere with a speed camera...... On ages of offenders, I agre with the comments on some younger drivers but the worst driving i see on a day to day basis whilst im chugging up and down the M4 has got to be tailgating and apart from (some) white van drivers , the majority of the time its guys in their 30s 40 in big audis. A stereotype i know but i see it sooooo often its untrue. All too often the roads where i live have been rezoned to 50 mph; there was a case a couple of years ago when some idiot decided to overtake a lorry in thick fog. The lorry driver said the car flew past him like he was standing still, indicating how fast the guy was travelling - straight into the path of another lorry. lucky the only person the guy killed was himself but the official, and quite gobsmacking, reaction was to rezone the road to make it 'safer'. Needless to say, anyone with the mentality to speed and overtake in fog wont give a rats @ss what the maximum speed of the road is but the rest of us have to now live with it. Not that it makes a deal of difference anyway as lorries are limited to 40 on an A road, and with supermarket lorries religiously upholding the limits,your normally stuck in a 1/2 mile long queue behind one anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 What speed does everyone HONESTLY cruise at on the motorways? An indicated 80 at least for most I bet..... Now if the speed limit was raised to 80, the majority would then cruise at an indicated 90 at least. I honestly think the speed limit debate is kind of irrelevant as we have found here it's more about driver education. Without the proper education raising the speed limit would be silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceaser Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Well it will be interesting to see what happens wrt speed limits. With more and more gantries with cameras/average speed monitors appearing (M1, M42, M25 to name just a few) plus the potential revival of the compulsary pay as you drive black box scheme with an automatic vehicle speed limiter built in to it, the days of choosing to go faster then the posted limit -whatever it is - could be coming to an end..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 As said above the limit it 70 and most cruise at 80, if it was raised to 80 most would cruise at 90 and so on.... I absolutely agree with the tailgating comments too, and don't get me started on motorbikes, think once, think twice, think complete idiot undertaking @ 100mph.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazhull8474 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 In Germany i happily cruise along at 100-120mph dont need to go any faster with any other road users about but like the comment above if the speed limit is raised so will cruising speeds. Dont get me wrong i have put the pedal to the floor a few times when the roads have been clear at night or first thing in the morning but the autobahns are so much better built not as many bends on them or no where near as many slip roads where most accidents occur either entering the motorway or leaving. I think everyone has an opinion on this one. The best thing to do is if your coming to Europe drive in Germany and you will see how good they are on the autobahns they may flash there lights at you from behind but its to let you know they are going to overtake you or to remind you to pull in. Do that in the UK and you have a case of road rage on your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACON Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 I think the speed limits on our roads are about right although if I'm cruising on a motorway it's usually around the 80mph mark. As for speeding tickets the speed limit is just that, a limit not a target. Sorry!!!! Did you really just say that you believe the speed limits are about right................BUT if you're cruising on a motorway it's usually around the 80mph mark!!! Are you not contradicting yourself slightly here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I think the speed limits on our roads are about right although if I'm cruising on a motorway it's usually around the 80mph mark. As for speeding tickets the speed limit is just that, a limit not a target. Sorry!!!! Did you really just say that you believe the speed limits are about right................BUT if you're cruising on a motorway it's usually around the 80mph mark!!! Are you not contradicting yourself slightly here? i'd agree, with dave, there is a balance with the speed on the motorway. yes it says 70 but people do 80 and the police don't tend to mind. if you raised it to 80, people would do 90. its in human nature to break the rules. no matter what you set it at people will always want to do more. plus our road network isn't in a good enough condition to cope with a raised limit like germany. could be worse we could be in america where the limit is 55 on alot of roads. i'd not complain if the limit was raised, but the sad fact is most drivers aren't up to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Driver training - way out of date Speed limit - only relevant because of the above I don't even think it is down to the size of the engine in a car for a new driver. It should be one with no brake servo, skinny little tyres, no power steering and only then do you learn to drive IMO..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I don't even think it is down to the size of the engine in a car for a new driver. It should be one with no brake servo, skinny little tyres, no power steering and only then do you learn to drive IMO..... i've driven something like that. its bloody hard work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Driving a car that is designed for high speed is inherently safer within our present speed limits than one that is not or dare I say where the emphasis is on co2 saving etc or modified cars that have upped the power but have not suitably compensated in the braking/handling departments such that when those cars are pushed at 60/70 mph the road holding and braking are getting towards their design limits. When I drive the same the roads in my wife's Jazz, rather than the ZED, it really is a case of being so much more aware that its design limitations such that it does invoke a sense of the speed limits being more justified. And that is the difficulty we are up against as those who dictate the controls on our roads simply see speed as the "be all and end all" and use safety/green reasons to justify keeping limits that throw back to times when servo/disc brakes were a rarity, crossply tyres ruled and cars were being produced with relatively high power outputs but poor suspension/brakes that would not properly cope and hence accidents increased leading to the limits that have been around for decades. So yes, for many performance cars the speed limits are unreasonable but then when you see some of the driving on our roads and whatever the car (or van!), you can see why those who govern these things feel the answer is for speed limits to get stricter. A particular beef of mine is that Highways Authorties do not consistently apply advanced warnings of speed restrictions you are approaching - how many times do you suddendly come across a 30mph limit with no advanced warning immediately after a 60mph section? Frustration is clearly a big cause of accidents - often caused by drivers who decide that their 40mph in a 60 zone is appropriate creating a queue of vehicles behind and rather than pulling in to let them by it ends up creating overtakes that inevitably carries relatively high risks. Whether I am in the ZED or the Jazz and I see just one car behind that clearly wants to go quicker I will let them by as soon as I see somewhere safe to pull in/over - I don't care if is a Morris Minor - I would rather they have their accident away from me. Oh for the Scottish approach that requires slow drivers to pull over and let others pass - it makes driving there a real pleasure I feel better now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff-r Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Have to disagree. Every time I drive home from work and its raining, there's a tail-back because some idiot can't alter their driving style to accommodate the different conditions. Sure you can drive, and I personally think I can drive. But for us 2, there's another thousand idiots who can't, and if given the ability to drive an extra 10 MPH they would probably become even more lethal. And although our cars are better equipped etc, there is still thousands of old shambles which aren't. It's a shame really, because if we all drove well, and had good cars...maybe there could be a safe increase. But that's not the case, and as usual the majority of idiots ruin it for the minority of decent folk. This then begs the question, are our driving tests good enough? I don't think so, any fool can learn to drive and it's not that hard. But these fools are the ones that ruin it for all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan112 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 To be honest some of the worst driving iv seen is by elderly people, They seem oblivious to their surroundings i often have them pull out infront of me without looking only to hold me up on my way to work at stupidly slow speeds (oh look a sports car with no one behind it i must get out infront of it rather than wait 20 seconds for it to pass ) actually they seem quite intent on holding everyone up at 35 mph, on all roads! even 30mph limits, putting on the breaks every time something comes the other way, i find im much more likely to make a silly mistake when stuck behind someone slow than when driving fast, the mind switches off, or you get angry and try and overtake. iv been involved in 3 minor accidents (not my fault) and not one of them was because of speed they were all at about 30mph because people wernt paying attention, iv never lost controll of a car and all my cars apart from my 1st were rear wheel drive. I think the problem is when the older generations strated driving, the roads were much smaller, quieter, slower places i honestly feel on todays roads the elderly are terrified to drive on them and become a hazzard to other users. Raising the speed limits wouldnt do much good i doubt as the people using them dont get up to the limits in place the younger drivers should have better tests including motorway etiquette (get out the middle lane you morons ) and the elderly should be have compulsory tests when they reach 70, if they cant keep up they cant drive Im dan im 23 and im the best driver in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACON Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 To be honest some of the worst driving iv seen is by elderly people, They seem oblivious to their surroundings i often have them pull out infront of me without looking only to hold me up on my way to work at stupidly slow speeds (oh look a sports car with no one behind it i must get out infront of it rather than wait 20 seconds for it to pass ) actually they seem quite intent on holding everyone up at 35 mph, on all roads! even 30mph limits, putting on the breaks every time something comes the other way, i find im much more likely to make a silly mistake when stuck behind someone slow than when driving fast, the mind switches off, or you get angry and try and overtake. iv been involved in 3 minor accidents (not my fault) and not one of them was because of speed they were all at about 30mph because people wernt paying attention, iv never lost controll of a car and all my cars apart from my 1st were rear wheel drive. I think the problem is when the older generations strated driving, the roads were much smaller, quieter, slower places i honestly feel on todays roads the elderly are terrified to drive on them and become a hazzard to other users. Raising the speed limits wouldnt do much good i doubt as the people using them dont get up to the limits in place the younger drivers should have better tests including motorway etiquette (get out the middle lane you morons ) and the elderly should be have compulsory tests when they reach 70, if they cant keep up they cant drive Im dan im 23 and im the best driver in the world I do agree that the younger drivers, as has been mentioned previously should have more tuition before being granted the priviledge to drive on our public highways. I also agree that there should be some form of re-testing, particularly when drivers reach a certain age bracket to make sure they understand and abide by the current highway code and regulations.......everyone needs a refresher from time to time!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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