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The EV problem.


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So what happens when everyone switches to free electricity, and tax revenues drop? What do you think will then be taxed or taxed higher to compensate?

 

What happened to taxation laws when Romans abandoned the UK??

 

What made up taxation revenue before cigarettes/alcohol was taxed??

 

Clearly the way governments does things need to change, but to be resistant to change because of a fear of the future is totally irrational and goes against everything human society has achieved since homo sapiens first decided there was more to life than just sitting in a tree scratching each others backs.

 

The move away from fossil fuels is going to happen in our life time, and much quicker than anyone thinks. Even the oil rich states are making changes.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/saudi-renewable-idUKL8N1HP10B

 

If nothing else Solar PV + battery storage will give billions of people living in Africa/Asia who currently have no access to electricity a way to generate their own power without having to rely on a powerstation and power lines.

 

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Don't be silly, it's a miracle thing and Tesla will solve all the problems and start mining it from the moon when the Space X project goes live. In Musk we trust!     /gangzoom   ;)

So another natural resource like oil that there will be a shortage of in years to come and there i was thinking it was the future!

I can't tell if you're serious or not. You think the mix % is more important than the absolute values?   The graph contains values in TWh for energy production via Coal, Oil & Gas - not

Posted Images

 

I think you may want to look into the complicated process of recycling a lithium battery, the dangers surrounding it and the environmental impact, least of all the cost, they dont even bother with the lithium as is 5x more costly than mining it.

 

 

Perhaps you should , plenty of articles on the web (no doubt funded by big oil) stating this kind of stuff but take a look at what manufacturers are ACTUALLY doing with old batteries

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-i3-batteries-to-be-recycled-for-home-use/

 

Many EV car batteries here today have a life of 10-15 years in a car then a further 20 years in another application before requiring recycling

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The move away from fossil fuels is going to happen in our life time, and much quicker than anyone thinks. Even the oil rich states are making changes.

Define 'move away', and I'll take that bet. :)

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Actually green energy is not free, its renewable. Its costs something like 6-7 times more to build and collect wind energy than it does to say build a power station.

 

This was ture, but not recently with plummeting price of solar PV and soon battery prices. Also remember the biggest cost to any organisation isn't capital investment, it's HR costs. How many people does it take to run a power station over 50 years compared to a solar/wind farm?? Once you add in pensions/NI costs in the any initial higher capital costs will look like peanuts.

 

Renewable energy costs are already causing havoc in Germany because they are so cheap per kWh. The actual cost of electricity we get charged is such a mix up of taxation/energy deals I suspect no one really knows the actual bottom line costs involved. All I know is with a relative small solar PV setup on the new house we haven't had to use any gas to heat up the water for the last 2 weeks (since moving in), and once battery costs drop enough I'm going to install a 20kWh+ battery + double or triple the current solar PV setup via solar PV tiles. That will mean we'll get to point where we will be importing next to no electricity from the grid, even with charging up the Tesla.

 

.....also £60K wouldn't get you much of a Tesla at the moment, your need about another £10K for one with some half decent options :).

 

2000px-Price_history_of_silicon_PV_cells_since_1977.svg.png

Edited by gangzoom
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The move away from fossil fuels is going to happen in our life time, and much quicker than anyone thinks. Even the oil rich states are making changes.

Define 'move away', and I'll take that bet. :)

 

I don't bet, never have never will....Shame really, could have made a fair amount on Tesla share if I did :).

Edited by gangzoom
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You could do a sportsman's bet, y'know.

 

The point was more for you to define moving away from fossil fuels. You say within our lifetime, but what would you consider as us successfully moving away from oil & gas.

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I'm with Codel, I'm all for the country to be renewably powered, but I'm not ready to say goodbye to petrol just yet. It used to be the styling and noise. Now i'll admit some of the styling is going the right way, but I like the sound of an engine.

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Wind is the primary form of renewable energy collection in the UK (and quite rightly) and costs substantially more to set up than other forms of electricity generation. Ongoing costs are about the same once they are installed vs other forms of energy collection including power stations (go google energy costs it defines it there).

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I'm with Codel, I'm all for the country to be renewably powered, but I'm not ready to say goodbye to petrol just yet. It used to be the styling and noise. Now i'll admit some of the styling is going the right way, but I like the sound of an engine.

 

This kind of sums it up for me when it comes to electric cars and why they just do not stir the senses - ok its blatantly done by a petrolhead but hey it was as good an illustration as I could find

 

 

I have no problem going EV for carting the kid around and doing boring journeys down the motorway, but for fun, not a chance

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You frequently describe ev's as exciting and the future, perhaps you can get your rose coloured glasses off for one second and tell us whats exciting and the future of raping our planet of yet more of its natural resources.

 

I think I can safely say our views on what the 'future' will bring is clearly divergent, but in way that doesn't matter, we are all free to express our own individual opinions.

 

 

 

Which is exactly what i am asking, you're view and opinion of exciting and the future is plundering the planet for more natural resources, its a yes or no answer, quite simple.

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I've seen a lot of farmers who are replacing grazing land with solar farms. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, as I think part of being environmentally responsible has to include a modicum of self sufficiency. Whats the point in cutting down energy costs, but then have to pay to import SO much more.

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There are also many farms heating cow and machinery sheds with biomass builders as the return from the feed in tariff is a better return on the investment than pretty much anywhere else, that may give you an idea of why they are installing solar farms ;)

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There are also many farms heating cow and machinery sheds with biomass builders as the return from the feed in tariff is a better return on the investment than pretty much anywhere else, that may give you an idea of why they are installing solar farms ;)

Yeah I assumed it'd be a financially better option for them, its just a shame.
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This kind of sums it up for me when it comes to electric cars and why they just do not stir the senses - ok its blatantly done by a petrolhead but hey it was as good an illustration as I could find

 

 

I have no problem going EV for carting the kid around and doing boring journeys down the motorway, but for fun, not a chance

I tried to watch Formula E a couple of times and gave up. It's like F1, but even more bland.

 

With the amount of fake exhaust noise in cars these days, i'm not sure how I feel about full EVs sounding like V8s though.

Edited by Strudul
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(tongue in cheek) What about blinding people crossing the road, they'll struggle with electric cars :lol:

 

this is a genuine concern actually as my sister is blind

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I think you may want to look into the complicated process of recycling a lithium battery, the dangers surrounding it and the environmental impact, least of all the cost, they dont even bother with the lithium as is 5x more costly than mining it.

 

 

Perhaps you should , plenty of articles on the web (no doubt funded by big oil) stating this kind of stuff but take a look at what manufacturers are ACTUALLY doing with old batteries

 

http://blog.caranddr...d-for-home-use/

 

Many EV car batteries here today have a life of 10-15 years in a car then a further 20 years in another application before requiring recycling

 

We can all put up links:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/vital-signs/2015/jun/10/tesla-batteries-environment-lithium-elon-musk-powerwall

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(tongue in cheek) What about blinding people crossing the road, they'll struggle with electric cars :lol:

 

this is a genuine concern actually as my sister is blind

Sorry if I came off as insensitive. I have more contact with deaf people than blind as my SO's grandparents were deaf. You see a lot of support for the deaf community, less for the blind.
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(tongue in cheek) What about blinding people crossing the road, they'll struggle with electric cars :lol:

 

this is a genuine concern actually as my sister is blind

Weren't they developing noises for EV cars to aid this?

 

Edit: Link

Edited by Strudul
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(tongue in cheek) What about blinding people crossing the road, they'll struggle with electric cars :lol:

 

I've now done nearly 19K in EVs over the last few years. Not yet run anyone over :)

 

People do notice the X a lot more though despite the lack of engine noise when it's coming up behind them, I think it's something to do with 265/275 tyres it rolls on!! According to the in-laws its apparently quite menacing as it rolls up to you in silence due to the amount of factory tints you can hard see into the car!!

 

Good thing we atleast went for a light colour and not totally black!!

 

maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by gangzoom
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Good to hear :lol: , and yeah at 70ish db on tyres complete silence is unlikely. I agree with you on the styling, they look good now...for the most part. Not sold on the leaf yet.

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You could do a sportsman's bet, y'know.

 

The point was more for you to define moving away from fossil fuels. You say within our lifetime, but what would you consider as us successfully moving away from oil & gas.

 

I would say combustion cars wouldn't be mass produced and over 50% of the UK grid energy is generated consistently via solar/wind would be massive departure from where we are now. I would be disappointed if by the time my daughter is old enough to drive people are still buying brand new combustion cars on a regular basis for the purposes of transportation.

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I would say combustion cars wouldn't be mass produced and over 50% of the UK grid energy is generated consistently via solar/wind would be massive departure from where we are now. I would be disappointed if by the time my daughter is old enough to drive people are still buying brand new combustion cars on a regular basis for the purposes of transportation.

So 16 years then? Jeez man, that's even more optimistic than I thought you might say. Shame you're not a betting man, I'd have put my house on that one! :lol:

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