Just driven a hydrogen car *MIRAI

[davey_83]

Never thought I'd see the day i get to drive a hydrogen car. Amazing bit of engineering and fascinating how it all works, even if the 700bar fuel tank made me feel a little uneasy.

 

Chatting with Simon Calado (pretty big noise for the company, as he delivered every LFA sold in the country and some in Europe including the 7:14 Nurburgring pack edition) these expel upto 8 litres of fresh water for every 100km, but does have a dedicated button to drain on demand.

 

Headline figures: 300 mile range from 5kg of hydrogen, zero emissions, refueling takes 3 minutes, cicra 155bhp and £61k before government grant.

 

 

Drive is very much in the commuter vehicle category, id imagine when you’d press on you’d feel the weight of the 1850kg around you for sure. Just a strange feeling to know you in a vehicle thats not powered by fuel or plug in. He went on to say the fast charge points you see at service stations, EV consume enough juice to power 3 average households for a week.

 

Brakes of course full eclectic flyby wire, main battery regen under what we know as over run and braking. Of course pre crash system, blind spot monitor, wireless smart phone charging.

 

Im not sure what i was expecting in terms of drive feel. Maybe clunky, noisy gases, noises that resemble buses air brakes. Nope, drives just like any EV as the wheels are powered via an electronic motor. Of course INSTANT full power from essentially idle. Smooth again of course quiet and all the electrics seem to work mad quick. Example, power seats normally operate slow, not in this it's too quick and the electronic lumber support can me out too haha.

 

Oh yeah with every purchase, Toyota gives you free refills FOR LIFE!!

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by davey_83

[coldel]

So, how did it drive?

[djtimo]

Amazing!

[Mikevv]

Lol if I had circa £61k for a car the last thing I'd give a toss about is fuel economy or the environment... if it had to be a practical car then an M5 would do just fine thanks

 

I get it's a good bit of kit, but a) the pressure scares the life out of me... They aren't cost effective, yet... and lastly... EWW!

[davey_83]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the engine? No the fuel cell stack feeder, fashioned to look like an engine is all. Kinda like a terminator designed to look like a human so it blends in haha

 

 

[coldel]

Styling isnt great at all, it looks like a Tesla

[colesl4w]

Those rear lights... jesus wept.........

[Mikevv]

Those rear lights... jesus wept.........

 

 

"JAMES YOU PLANK...YOU FORGOT THE LIGHTS!"

 

"Hold my beer."

[Aashenfox]

Interesting you mention that, because....

 

That's EXACTLY how the exhaust tips on the first gen (BMW) mini cooper S were designed. They had brought out the full size clay model of the car to do an inspection and one of the techs piped up...guys, it doesn't have any exhaust pipes...? I don't know who it was off hand wihtout looking it up, but apparently someone who was on the team and drinking a can of beer at the time, allegedly tore the can neatly in half with his bare hands and shalacked (how else do you describe swiftly shoving something into soft clay??) the 2 halves into the center of the rear valance, side by side. People liked it so much, the tips were actually modeled on the bottom half of a beer can...

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Mikevv]

Interesting you mention that, because....

 

That's EXACTLY how the exhaust tips on the first gen (BMW) mini cooper S were designed. They had brought out the full size clay model of the car to do an inspection and one of the techs piped up...guys, it doesn't have any exhaust pipes...? I don't know who it was off hand wihtout looking it up, but apparently someone who was on the team and drinking a can of beer at the time, allegedly tore the can neatly in half with his bare hands and shalacked (how else do you describe swiftly shoving something into soft clay??) the 2 halves into the center of the rear valance, side by side. People liked it so much, the tips were actually modeled on the bottom half of a beer can...

 

 

I remember hearing about this from one of the Mclaren higher ups who if I remember rightly worked at Mini back then? Was in a MR JWW video

[davey_83]

Drive is very much in the commuter vehicle category, id imagine when you’d press on you’d feel the weight of the 1850kg around you for sure. Just a strange feeling to know you in a vehicle thats not powered by fuel or plug in. He went on to say the fast charge points you see at service stations, EV consume enough juice to power 3 average households for a week.

 

Brakes of course full eclectic flyby wire, main battery regen under what we know as over run and braking. Of course pre crash system, blind spot monitor, wireless smart phone charging.

[Randy_Baton]

I can't get over how tacky that cockpit is....

[Zeezeebaba]

There we go, 300 miles for 3 minutes filling time. This appeals to me more than any power grid draining EV white goods rubbish.

[Paddy78]

For me, this is how you get people away from petrol. EV's look set to be the future though until some infrastructure is in place (At least you can charge your EV at home). Would be good if a "cool" car was also backing hydrogen a la Tesla, because that monstrosity doesn't make me want to run out and buy one... especially when it costs as much as 2 fully spec'd Golf GTI's.

[davey_83]

On the petrol front, they'll one say be no choice as there won't be any to use - water on the other hand......

[Strudul]

I can't get over how tacky that cockpit is....

You're kidding? The interior is the best looking part...

[gangzoom]

There we go, 300 miles for 3 minutes filling time. This appeals to me more than any power grid draining EV white goods rubbish.

 

You do realise the MIRAI is essentially an EV but the electricity comes from using Hydrogen to generate electricity to recharge the on board battery pack, if anything this is white good rubbish x2

 

As for refuelling in 3 minutes, that's if you can find a hydrogen fuel station which is supplying hydrogen at 700bar, most can only deliver 350 bar which gives the car a range of 150 miles, and it takes refuel station 15-20 minutes to 'recharge' after every fill up. So yes am sure it's appealing to some people, but I struggle to see the appeal.

 

http://gas2.org/2016/01/15/toyota-tells-dealers-stop-mirai-deliveries/

[gsexr]

Yawn..............

[gangzoom]

He went on to say the fast charge points you see at service stations, EV consume enough juice to power 3 average households for a week.

 

 

Did he go on to say where the hydrogen comes from, how it's transported/stored, or the energy needed to compress it to 700bar....or the fact the MIRAI still has a lithium ion battery but also a fuel cell stack which uses that really common resource known as platinum

[Zeezeebaba]

I really don't think pure EV vehicles are the future. Hybrid combos are more viable long term. People seem to forget electricity needs to be generated, needs to be supplied at a rate much higher than today's demands to support if all road traffic is on the grid.

Ultimately tech will reach a stage where power is being generated by everything including roads and street furniture via green sustainable means.

[Flashback]

I really don't think pure EV vehicles are the future. Hybrid combos are more viable long term. People seem to forget electricity needs to be generated, needs to be supplied at a rate much higher than today's demands to support if all road traffic is on the grid.

Ultimately tech will reach a stage where power is being generated by everything including roads and street furniture via green sustainable means.

Sounds quite likely, the are already pieces of tech that can charge from ambient sound for example and artificial leaves that can photosynthesise better than plants. Surely it's not too far away for mass market production.

[gangzoom]

I really don't think pure EV vehicles are the future. Hybrid combos are more viable long term. People seem to forget electricity needs to be generated

 

And where does the energy needed to extract, transport, store, compress hydrogen come from??

 

The UK is quite behind the likes of Germany for renewable electricity generation but still, last month at times the day time demand on the grid was LESS than at the middle of the night due to a sunny day and so many people now having solar PV systems.

 

The problem facing the UK grid will soon be the same as Germany, how to manage increasing amounts of renewable energy generation whilst keeping old fashioned powerstations going.... And your not going to like the answer, lets just say batteries are involved .

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/26/eight-uk-battery-projects-win-funding-from-national-grid/

 

http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/solar_surges_sending_energy_prices_tumbling_in_march_says_platts

Edited April 7, 2017 by gangzoom

[davey_83]

They'll never be a 'free' fuel, ie produced, obtained, stored or transported with zero costs to the environment. The general consensus is, as long as the overall​ costs to implement fuel cell vehicles is less than that of full EV then it's progression. Fuel cell vehicles are essentially EV, however they produce there own electricity. This power goes to the wheels and the batteries are charged via this and regenerative media. Batteries don't power the wheels under normal driving only to start the vehicle and at stand still.

[Zeezeebaba]

I'm all for renewable energy, one of my closest friends runs the solar shop. However purely electric vehicles are unlikely short term. As for infrastructure the oil companies are investing in alternatives including solar but as for fuel hydrogen is at present the most likely fuel in combination with hybrid tech to give a realistic range for vehicles such as haulage and passenger transport. Yes EV will play a part as part of a hybrid set up and the fuel will act as a generator to extend range.

This negates charging times and makes electric vehicles more usable.

 

[coldel]

The government has such a large part to play in all this, it needs to decide what to do and support it. UK average electricity consumption is something like 4500 to 5000 kWh per year. Lets say for arguments sake the model X 90 takes 90 kWh to charge each time (it takes more as I understand it as the actual on board charger uses energy to charge) and you charge the car say once a week that just over 4000 kWh of power to run your car doubling your household energy consumption.

 

I keep shouting about infrastructure, and its boring, no where near as exciting as pointing at shiny technology and things that move on their own etc. but the tech has never been the problem, for EV to really take off the UK needs to essentially double its electricity power output (assuming all the above is true which I appreciate its not likely to be) - so all this talk of having the majority of cars on the road as EV in a few years time doesn't seem to sit in line with the governments plans on energy provision?