Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 All people need to know is that if you are looking for a good street coilover, anything over 700 quid will be decent, BOOM! And there you have it. They can sell you any old sh1t but as long as it's priced at ~£700, you'll all be happy. I rest my case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Not familiar with the basics of free market economics either. Oh well. /shrug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 You were the one asking whether you'd get a better ride from KWv3. I said yes you will. Everyone else thinks not. Yup, and I've zero problem with that, it's great to get a confirmation from people with them on the cars. I just pointed out that it seemed fruitless to compare what you'd suggested as that is highly suggestive to say that all of the MeisterR models are the same, that's not on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Not familiar with the basics of free market economics either. Oh well. /shrug. You were the one asking whether you'd get a better ride from KWv3. I said yes you will. Everyone else thinks not. I work for a reseller. Sometimes we make 5 points, sometimes we make 100 points. But if you think that because something at a certain price point means you get a certain quality...come on You were the one asking whether you'd get a better ride from KWv3. I said yes you will. Everyone else thinks not. Yup, and I've zero problem with that, it's great to get a confirmation from people with them on the cars. I just pointed out that it seemed fruitless to compare what you'd suggested as that is highly suggestive to say that all of the MeisterR models are the same, that's not on. No, I can't comment on GT1s, I haven't experienced them. They could be the best damper in the world ever and I could very well be blown away by them. The coatings could resist corrosion better than stainless steel. What I did say was that my experiences with them (MeisterR dampers) wasn't good thus I wouldn't buy them again (once bitten, twice shy and all) and that the KWv3s were better than the ones I used. That's it. I totally understand that it may come as no shock because the KWv3s are twice the price. Yep, agree. Having said that, it shocked (no pun intended ) me how much better they were. I was genuinely NOT expecting it. Edited January 9, 2017 by Rocket_Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 All people need to know is that if you are looking for a good street coilover, anything over 700 quid will be decent This is something I want to bring up to attention that it isn't true. One have to remember that a suspension is only going to perform as well as it's setting. The best suspension in the world with the incorrect setting / setup will still perform poorly. Just because a suspension is expensive, it doesn't make it any better if the suspension setting was wrong to begin with. Spending £3000 for some race suspension and putting it on a road car, will yield poorer performance than a £700 suspension that were designed for road use to begin with. Many have fallen into the idea that expensive must be better, and you get what you pay for. And while sometime it is true, the idea that more expensive must be better, or that all equal price item must equally perform similar is incorrect. Especially in the suspension world, because it cost the exact same amount to build a damper with the incorrect specification vs building a damper with the correct specification. OBJECTION: Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Stop confusing these people with your psuedo science. I am still waiting for your REAL science. And while we are on science, let me ask you a VERY BASIC questions. All vehicle dynamics start with a single point, and that is 100% critical damping force (specifically critical rebound force). At what adjustment does your beloved KW V3 reach critical rebound force? Because without knowing that adjustment point, it is literally impossible to tune a dampers. That is just pure science, something that is calculate-able and presentable on a piece of paper. So please let us know about REAL science on your KW V3, because we are all waiting Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) All people need to know is that if you are looking for a good street coilover, anything over 700 quid will be decent This is something I want to bring up to attention that it isn't true. One have to remember that a suspension is only going to perform as well as it's setting. The best suspension in the world with the incorrect setting / setup will still perform poorly. Just because a suspension is expensive, it doesn't make it any better if the suspension setting was wrong to begin with. Spending £3000 for some race suspension and putting it on a road car, will yield poorer performance than a £700 suspension that were designed for road use to begin with. Many have fallen into the idea that expensive must be better, and you get what you pay for. And while sometime it is true, the idea that more expensive must be better, or that all equal price item must equally perform similar is incorrect. Especially in the suspension world, because it cost the exact same amount to build a damper with the incorrect specification vs building a damper with the correct specification. OBJECTION: Jerrick Fair comment, I'm well aware of this, and stand by what I wrote for the layman. Again, let's not get bogged down in deep technicalities, you all know the price range and even specific products to which I am referring (BC, HSD, D2, some others). Of course I'm not suggesting that if a set of 200 quid coilovers was sold for 700 quid that somehow they would magically suddenly be good, as Mr Rabbit is trying to suggest. And of course ANY suspension is only as good as the person who set it up. Both of those go without saying, hence I did not say them. Edited January 9, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snjur Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 So far I haven't manage to find any bad reviews on Meister Gt1's out there from various users on various cars. And have been looking for last day or two. A guy who is lapping Ring 08:25 with Ep3 has only words of praise for them and that result I think speaks for it self. So either Meister is putting a lot of effort in propaganda or actually this coilovers are doing a good job Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just because a suspension is expensive, it doesn't make it any better if the suspension setting was wrong to begin with. Spending £3000 for some race suspension and putting it on a road car, will yield poorer performance than a £700 suspension that were designed for road use to begin with. Which is exactly what Shaikh proved in several of his videos, in particular Motons that were really intended for track use only, plus a heap of phase delay with ridiculously long piping for the external reservoir. That's obviously NOT to say they are poor quality but were used for the wrong application and were revalved. Just for an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 All people need to know is that if you are looking for a good street coilover, anything over 700 quid will be decent, BOOM! And there you have it. They can sell you any old sh1t but as long as it's priced at ~£700, you'll all be happy. I rest my case Why are you being such a knob? Thats not what he said at all. Similarly comparing £700 MeisterRs with £1700 KW's isnt valid, and then going on to repeatedly knock Jerrick and the GT1 despite never actually trying them out is just a massive dick move. Jerrick is undoubtedly one of the better traders in this scene, understanding his product and providing evidence and real world experience whenever anyone asks. The stuff he types is not copy and paste, the guy genuinely knows what he is talking about. Your bullshit about "fast road" not actually existing (Ive been using the term for 20 years without any misunderstanding) and avoiding direct questions isnt helping anyone, least of all yourself. FWIW Im 99% Ill be ordering some GT1's in the very near future, if they are rubbish youll be the first to know but I doubt they will be. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GappySmeg Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 So why not call it a tarmac rally setup? And I can absolutely promise you a road car DOESN'T want the same dynamics as a Tarmac rally car. This is before owner profiling has entered the equation. Stop confusing these people with your psuedo science. I don't know what your problem is mate but the majority of posts I've seen from you are overly aggressive and self righteous, there's no need to attack people because you disagree with them. Yep... and still no apology for claiming Meister's post was plagiarised. Are you on commission from KW or something? Nope. But Jerrick earns for his wares sold. Make of that what you will. And the stuff Jerrick posted is all available from the internet - nothing new there. https://www.qa1.net/...monotube-shocks https://www.tein.co....ecial/ni_toryu/ A couple of links out of the hundreds available Nope, I think you misunderstand... you accused him of "copying and pasting" his post, but now you're merely backing that up with "well it's public domain info"... that's not the same thing at all. It's been public domain info since Principia Mathematica, that doesn't mean all physicists are plagiarists! Have your winky and smiley back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 All people need to know is that if you are looking for a good street coilover, anything over 700 quid will be decent, BOOM! And there you have it. They can sell you any old sh1t but as long as it's priced at ~£700, you'll all be happy. I rest my case Why are you being such a knob? Thats not what he said at all. Similarly comparing £700 MeisterRs with £1700 KW's isnt valid, and then going on to repeatedly knock Jerrick and the GT1 despite never actually trying them out is just a massive dick move. Jerrick is undoubtedly one of the better traders in this scene, understanding his product and providing evidence and real world experience whenever anyone asks. The stuff he types is not copy and paste, the guy genuinely knows what he is talking about. Your bullshit about "fast road" not actually existing (Ive been using the term for 20 years without any misunderstanding) and avoiding direct questions isnt helping anyone, least of all yourself. FWIW Im 99% Ill be ordering some GT1's in the very near future, if they are rubbish youll be the first to know but I doubt they will be. Why can't you compare £700 MesiterRs to £1700 KWv3s? I just did and the result was what it was. You know, going back to the original post, it was about KWv3s. I never mentioned anything about GT1s other than I have had experience with MeisterR quality before and I found it poor. Because of that, I wouldn't buy the GT1s. Now, as I mentioned, the GT1's could be the best damper in the world ever and resist corrosion better than stainless steel. Brill, happy for them to be that way. I won't be taking that chance though because of afore mentioned reasons. Fast road is bullshit. When someone comes to me I do not tell them I have a Fast Road setup. I'll tell them Camber, Castor, and Toe values. Saying to someone you have a fast road setup on your Nissan 350Z is meaningless. Sounds good to the uninitiated, but tell you nothing. What tyres have you got on you car? Fast road tyres. What springs have you got? Fast road springs. I also have a fast road air intake and a fast road exhaust. Let's say I'm on a trackday at Oulton and someone comes over because they too have a 350Z. They ask what mods I have done. Then I say to them 'Yeah, it's got an Oulton Park setup on it' what have I actually just told him?! Well, more than fast road. Who knows what a fast road is? A road, B road, Motorway, whites???? I look forward to your review. I hope they're a good damper for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 So far I haven't manage to find any bad reviews on Meister Gt1's out there from various users on various cars. And have been looking for last day or two. A guy who is lapping Ring 08:25 with Ep3 has only words of praise for them and that result I think speaks for it self. So either Meister is putting a lot of effort in propaganda or actually this coilovers are doing a good job Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk What does that ring time tell you? It tells you nothing other than pub ammo. You don't know the driver experience, conditions, setup, mods, tyres or anything else. Like that Ring Banana MX5. Goes around sets a time. Sticks on MeisterRs, it's 25 seconds faster. ALong with tyres, geometry, and course familirasation plus who know what traffic was in the way. Just because a suspension is expensive, it doesn't make it any better if the suspension setting was wrong to begin with. Spending £3000 for some race suspension and putting it on a road car, will yield poorer performance than a £700 suspension that were designed for road use to begin with. Which is exactly what Shaikh proved in several of his videos, in particular Motons that were really intended for track use only, plus a heap of phase delay with ridiculously long piping for the external reservoir. That's obviously NOT to say they are poor quality but were used for the wrong application and were revalved. Just for an example. Nitron and AST will customise for your application. So why not call it a tarmac rally setup? And I can absolutely promise you a road car DOESN'T want the same dynamics as a Tarmac rally car. This is before owner profiling has entered the equation. Stop confusing these people with your psuedo science. I don't know what your problem is mate but the majority of posts I've seen from you are overly aggressive and self righteous, there's no need to attack people because you disagree with them. Yep... and still no apology for claiming Meister's post was plagiarised. Are you on commission from KW or something? Nope. But Jerrick earns for his wares sold. Make of that what you will. And the stuff Jerrick posted is all available from the internet - nothing new there. https://www.qa1.net/...monotube-shocks https://www.tein.co....ecial/ni_toryu/ A couple of links out of the hundreds available Nope, I think you misunderstand... you accused him of "copying and pasting" his post, but now you're merely backing that up with "well it's public domain info"... that's not the same thing at all. It's been public domain info since Principia Mathematica, that doesn't mean all physicists are plagiarists! Have your winky and smiley back Yep, you're absolutely right and it was a poor choice of words from me. I apologise. Please see those links for advantages and disadvantages of each system and not just the disadvantages for twin tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Did you watch the videos I put up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Did you watch the videos I put up ? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Replies #29 & #31 Take some time to look through his channel IF you are interested in suspension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Rabbit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Replies #29 & #31 Take some time to look through his channel IF you are interested in suspension. Haven't seen him before - yeah, I'll have a look Interested in his review of aftermarket vs OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 After reading this topic and few PM exchanged with Jerrick I have dedicated to give a try to Meister R Gt1's. Originally I set my mind on Tein Monoflex so Gt1's are little bit over budget and in price range of Kw 3. Due to my job time when I'm at home I tend to spend quality behind the wheel. Car is twin turbo suspension has already upgrades in terms of toe arms front and rear, energy suspension bushings and so. I did tried my share of various coilovers on my rides as well others from Chinese all the way to Kw Clubsport. So how it look by the end February begging March it should Gt1's should be on the car and will writte a review. My test route is 420 km from capital to sea side. Mixture of everything fast section, curvy one's, over the mountain where the rod is quite bumpy due to temps in winter which cause tarmac to crack. And of course track day event on Grobnik race track Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk I look forward to reading the update in your epic build thread. Keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Who knows what a fast road is? A road, B road, Motorway, whites???? Fast road is not 100% track focused and too aggressive to use on the street, but also not focused at comfort, economy or tyre life either. Simply put, a setup thats optimised to be as fast as possible on roads, from bumpy B Roads to sweeping Autobahns. The fact google returns 589,000 hits for "Fast Road Setup" suggests Im not alone on understanding this. As for the rest of it, you can see it any way you like but there is more than an element of trolling to some of your posts on this thread dude. Edited January 9, 2017 by docwra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Like that Ring Banana MX5. Goes around sets a time. Sticks on MeisterRs, it's 25 seconds faster. ALong with tyres, geometry, and course familirasation plus who know what traffic was in the way. The Ring Banana set the base lap time of 9:21 around the Nurburg Ring. That was driven as the car was purchased, unknown suspensions and unknown alignment with 10 years old tyres. They then installed the MeisterR coilovers and re-do the alignment (something you have to do when installing new suspension anyways). The MX5 then pull a 8.54 lap on the same 10 years old tyres, a 27 seconds improvement with only suspension and alignment difference. The Driver was Gabriele Piana, a driving instructor at RSR Nurburgring, and a GT4 Race Driver. He doesn’t need to learn the Nurburg, he pretty much knows all about it. Traffic differ, and that is an uncontrolled factor. That is why this isn’t a scientific test. So viewer can decide how much difference traffics made out of that 27 seconds, I never tried to hide the fact. This car have been doing countless lap at Nurburg over the past 12 months. And just did another feat not long ago by Completing a full 24 hours endurance race at Circuito Ascari in Spain! This is on the same set of suspension, it have not been rebuild, I haven’t seen the suspension since it left our workshop back in 2015. Again, take it as what you will because this isn’t a scientific test. These are just pure result from a fun project that MeisterR got involved in, and are proud to be a part of. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Edited January 13, 2017 by RobPhoboS 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Happy parts day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Nice one. Will be interested to hear what you think of them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 I'll make another thread specifically to the GT1's but link to this one too as it has great info. A busy weekend ahead, these and cleaning injectors And just to note, Jerrick has been utterly sublime with emails back and forth between us, don't get me wrong there are plenty of great traders on here too, just that this was different 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snjur Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Waiting on a lot of pictures and feedback 😀 Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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