A grammar question for Hugh

[sipar69]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

 

Surely, lower case 's' and 'c' for sports centre?

[Irn Bru]

This is making my brain bleed, thank god I speak Jockaneze, it's much simpler

[Strudul]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

 

Surely, lower case 's' and 'c' for sports centre?

The only honourable thing to do here is step down

[ATTAK Z]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

 

Surely, lower case 's' and 'c' for sports centre?

 

You are of course correct, but I often put capitals at the beginning of words I wish to emphasise

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... words such as 'Bollox'

 

 

Anyway, please answer my question

[Strudul]

Either dig it all out or sell it as a "feature".

[Aashenfox]

This is making my brain bleed, thank god I speak Jockaneze, it's much simpler

 

I knew I was forgetting another language I speak, lol. I'm 1/8th Jock myself, in fact, I'm clan Maclaine (my father's side got morphed into Maclean over the years, but we are directly descended apparently) of Lochbuie for whatever that's worth. *pulls out his bagpipes and rattles out 'Celebrate'*

 

To be honest, I haven't spent any amount of time in Scotland despite the roots (I'd like to, one day), just a few days on visits here and there, but I do actually speak Jockinese, my mum had a Scots husband for a while back in the day, the tight-arsed belligerent git. You know, he used to make me buy him back a whole pack of fags if I asked for just one.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Aashenfox

[ATTAK Z]

Best suggestion I've had yet is bouncy castle lol

[Rock_Steady]

This skill of language construction 'appears' to be less important in the UK compared to living on the continent, happy to be proven wrong though.

 

i'd say it's a bit casual compared to other languages, but construction rules are there such as verb patterns, question forms (QASI) or the opposite which would be indirect question forms. There are also dependent prepositions with verbs and adjectives, adjective order to describe someone or something, gerunds and infinitives, passives, adverbial clause, conditionals etc. They form a type of construction in the English language, if it were said wrong, we could understand an utterance, yet it wouldn't sound good.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Rock_Steady

[coldel]

I meant in terms of learning at school - I don't remember being taught the structure of language, but then my school was one of the worst in the south east. When I was living in France, the ability of even very young children to understand how language is constructed and the rules behind it all just seemed head and shoulders above kids in the UK.

[Rock_Steady]

I meant in terms of learning at school - I don't remember being taught the structure of language, but then my school was one of the worst in the south east. When I was living in France, the ability of even very young children to understand how language is constructed and the rules behind it all just seemed head and shoulders above kids in the UK.

Ah! apologies. Then yes you're right, i don't think grammar has been taught in schools in the UK for a long long time hence some pretty shoddy grammar spoken by natives. I wasn't taught grammar at school either. As you said, they are taught it on the continent though. Whether they stick to it or not is another question.

[Ekona]

Grammar is definitely taught at schools, it's just done in a completely different way to how us older generation (30+) are used to expecting it. Certainly at KS1&2 anyway, which in fairness is when the basics are set. The bigger issue is lack of stability in the curriculum to enable cohesive teaching: Every time we get a new government in we get a new SoE, and then everything changes again. Even worse when we get an entirely different party and the whole ethos flips around.

 

What it needs is cross-party support for a 10-20 year curriculum that doesn't get altered. It gives the kids stability so they get used to learning a certain way, it gives teachers stability so they can concentrate on teaching not figuring out how to please Ofsted, and it gives parents stability so they can see that all their children are learning the same way and can track progress. Sadly, there's too much point scoring out there right now to make that a viable idea.

[Stutopia]

It's more important to have League tables than stable curriculum. Life's a competition, we need to know who to write off by the time they're 10 yrs old.

 

[Ekona]

Sadly it's scarily easy to see, even from a young age, which kids just aren't going to go anywhere in terms of schooling. And it's not because of the natural intelligence of the child, it's down to how moronic the parents are. Honestly, I'd no idea that parents feel the need to fuss over their kids so much when they're best off just leaving them alone.

 

One parent was handed back her child at the end of school (properly, officially, here's your child into your arms kinda thing), and then turned to gossip to another parent outside the playground. Lets go of her kid's hand, kid walks off, parent goes mental wondering where the kid is (in a bush about 10m away, in the end). Parent makes complaint to Ofsted about the school because she lost her own child! :bang:

[coldel]

Its pronounced Chris-mas by the way...

[Ekona]

Surely it should be pronounced Kryst-Mass, given the religious backstory

[Aashenfox]

Sadly it's scarily easy to see, even from a young age, which kids just aren't going to go anywhere in terms of schooling. And it's not because of the natural intelligence of the child, it's down to how moronic the parents are. Honestly, I'd no idea that parents feel the need to fuss over their kids so much when they're best off just leaving them alone.

 

One parent was handed back her child at the end of school (properly, officially, here's your child into your arms kinda thing), and then turned to gossip to another parent outside the playground. Lets go of her kid's hand, kid walks off, parent goes mental wondering where the kid is (in a bush about 10m away, in the end). Parent makes complaint to Ofsted about the school because she lost her own child! :bang:

 

In my version of the universe, there is a group of psychic beings (think Minority Report) who identify people like this to me, so my minions can execute them (or sterilise as required) and prevent further contamination of the gene pool.

[Strudul]

Grammar was taught a little bit in early primary school, but from what I remember the 2nd half of primary was all about story writing and descriptive writing.

 

Secondary school was just making up complete BS explaining what the author meant when he wrote X and Y. Apparently an author can't just write "the car was red" because it was red, oh no, it has to have something to do with how it was a fast, powerful car and red has connotations of fast angry things.

 

So what you end up with is a load of kids who can chat utter shite, but can't form proper sentences.

[ATTAK Z]

I learnt all my English grammar in Latin classes

 

armaco

armacas

armacat

etc.

[Aashenfox]

Grammar was taught a little bit in early primary school, but from what I remember the 2nd half of primary was all about story writing and descriptive writing.

 

Secondary school was just making up complete BS explaining what the author meant when he wrote X and Y. Apparently an author can't just write "the car was red" because it was red, oh no, it has to have something to do with how it was a fast, powerful car and red has connotations of fast angry things.

 

So what you end up with is a load of kids who can chat utter shite, but can't form proper sentences.

 

Rarely (actually never in creative writing) is an adjective chosen for such a simple reason, and certainly not when referring to the colour of something. If the colour of the car was meaningless it would not be referred to at all. That's technical though, not creative, any writer will tell you it's simply good policy to leave out details if they don't change anything in the story, this is because human beings naturally try to associate meaning with EVERYTHING, so if you refer often to things that are irrelevant, your audience compartmentalises the information (in anticipation of needing to recall it later) which is then never used. This is one of the phenomena that leads to a story feeling like it rambles. If I did go to the trouble of pointing out the colour of the car, you can be sure there's a complex reason for it, I would have decided the car was red because of some facet of the personality of the owner, but it would be a reason which will make sense when recalled at a later time by the reader. This is one of the most important things about good writing, you should have a fleshed out universe in which your characters live, where you know more than ten times as much as will be shared with the audience, this is how you create rich and believable interactions between characters). You'll find even the most 'pulp' style writing is this convoluted in the mind of the authors. So, to be fair, your teachers were right. The car is never red just because it is.

 

Doesn't change the fact that the kids still chat shite and can't form a sentence, jus sayin', lol

[Strudul]

There's probably better examples of times I though it was BS, but I hated it and didn't pay attention, so I can't recall them.

 

My point was that it's a waste of time and there are better, more important things to learn about in English. Good orthographic and grammatical skills are very important and you will use them every day. I can't remember the last time I used bloody story writing skills or had to analyse what an author meant (which just ruins the book afaic).

[Aashenfox]

True'nuff.

 

I've been writing a sci fi epic for about 15 years now yet I haven't actually put a single word down on paper, though I've written chapter 1 a few times over the years but always discarded it entirely. I realised every time that I need to know my universe more intimately before I can write authoritatively about it, so I spend a great deal of time sitting and thinking about the setting, the characters, and for example, what their childhoods were like, even minor characters, and building a universe in my mind. I reckon I need about another 15 years before I actually start writing, but basically when it's ready, I'll be able to pull stories out of it at will, they'll write themselves because I'll know how a character or faction would react to anything because I know everything about them. Large epic story arcs, with lots of subtle sub plots, etc. I want to write the next Lord of the Rings, but in space!

 

But that's about as likely as fulfilling another promise I made to myself aged 15, that I would own a Lamborghini by the time I was 40. I've got exactly 44 days left and I have to be honest, it ain't looking likely.

[coldel]

Spend every penny you got on lottery tickets...

[Aashenfox]

Don't say stuff like that, I'm liable to do it.

[Strudul]

What if I told you you could fulfil that promise by Friday if you order with 22 hours 17 mins?

[ATTAK Z]

True'nuff.

.................................

 

But that's about as likely as fulfilling another promise I made to myself aged 15, that I would own a Lamborghini by the time I was 40. I've got exactly 44 days left and I have to be honest, it ain't looking likely.

 

Sarnie (Liam), top poster on 350Z, made a similar promise to himself to own a Lambo before he was 30 ... he made it and I think he's got a McLaren now