A grammar question for Hugh

[Ekona]

This caught me out earlier, and tbh I still don't know what the answer is. Which of the following sentences is correct?

 

1: The new Star Wars film has an Xmas release window.

2: The new Star Wars film has a Xmas release window.

 

 

Now I think it's the first, as in my head I pronounce Xmas as Ex-Mass, however clearly it's just a shortening of the word Christmas so really I should be writing it as 'a Christmas window'. Obviously this is a moot point if you never ever use the word Xmas, however that would be nice and simple, two words which have never applied to me

 

 

I shall leave this entirely in your hands, my friend.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Ekona

[ZMANALEX]

I always use: "a Xmas".

[Stutopia]

1, The a/an consonant/vowel rule is all about the sound, not the actual leading letter.

 

We can demonstrate this with 'h' words, where you would only ever say "see you in an hour" (vowel sound) but you would also say "this book is a history of rubber" (consonant sound).

[Ekona]

So which would you use?

[Stutopia]

Still 1.

 

Check the first character of previous post

[-G-]

Stu is correct - if the word starts with a distinctive vowel sound, you use an. "An honourable" mention would be "an NHS" nurse.

[-G-]

Depends on what your brain says when you read Xmas. I read "Ex-mas" so I habitually use an. If you read Criss-mas then you would be using a.

 

Is it a XR2 or an XR2? Is it a RX8 or an RX8?

 

an both times for me.

[coldel]

I read Xmas as Christmas - I have never heard anyone say happy exmas to me before

[Stutopia]

You can't just make up words! Xmas is exmuss and Christmas is crissmuss

 

Once you start reading Xmas and saying crissmuss you may as well be reading Diesel and saying petrol, or ordering a pizza and getting a curry, it's words gone mad

[Ekona]

@Col: So you'd use a rather than an?

 

See, I never ever say Ex-Mass out loud, but I always read it that way. Odd.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Ekona

[coldel]

Xmas can be read either exmas or christmas according to the dictionary - however who says exmas out loud.

 

The X is an abbreviation of the greek word for Christ the letter X which is pronounced Chi (anyone done the Chi-squared test in statistics its written X² ) - it was done as slang hundreds of years ago its just that over time people have forgotten it was called Chi-Mas in slang and called it Ex-mas.

[brillomaster]

seems fairly straightforward to me. all to do with a vowel sound. however, whilst thinking about a slightly ambiguous letter H... would you say:

 

I have a HSBC bank account.

I have an HSBC bank account.

 

cos surely it depends if you pronounce 'H' as 'aitch' or haitch', which is still widely debated as which way is correct!

[BobbyZ]

seems fairly straightforward to me. all to do with a vowel sound. however, whilst thinking about a slightly ambiguous letter H... would you say:

 

I have a HSBC bank account.

I have an HSBC bank account.

 

cos surely it depends if you pronounce 'H' as 'aitch' or haitch', which is still widely debated as which way is correct!

 

Absolutely no debate there - people who say 'haitch' are wrong'uns.

[Ekona]

Poll added, go go go!

[AliveBoy]

Poll added, go go go!

 

100% say An, end it now! (1 vote )

[Rock_Steady]

if you say the beginning of a word with a vowel then the article is "an", no mater what the first letter is i.e. consonant of course

Edited December 19, 2016 by Rock_Steady

[Rock_Steady]

You can't just make up words! Xmas is exmuss and Christmas is crissmuss

 

Once you start reading Xmas and saying crissmuss you may as well be reading Diesel and saying petrol, or ordering a pizza and getting a curry, it's words gone mad

the "mas" in Christmas is just pronounced with the schwa /É™/ it's the most common sound in English Edited December 19, 2016 by Rock_Steady

[coldel]

if you say the beginning of a word with a vowel then the article is "an", no mater what the first letter is i.e. consonant of course

 

So go wish someone near you right now a merry xmas, how do you say it

[Aashenfox]

Doesn't need a poll, there';s a right way, though neither is actually 'wrong'. In the original post, it's not an acronym, it's a colloquialism, which is read as the full word christmas. Number 2 is correct, number 1 is wrong. You can say what you like, but that's it. Nobody says 'Exmass' as someone else pointed out.

 

Therefore A Xmas Hamper, not An xmas hamper. Although, nobody will give you a problem, as I say, it's not technically wrong, as it's a modernisation, who's to say it will not later be adopted fully and then be the more correct way. If that happens at any time in the future, it renders this discussion moot.

 

For the HSBC example, 'AN' HSBC account, the AN is correct, as it's an acronym and acronyms go by sound of the first character. The fact that H is a semi vowel does not play a role as it does in words like hotel. (An Hotel is correct, A Hotel is wrong).

 

For interest value, another one which is counter intuitive like these, is the word judgment. I just spelled it correctly. It is wrong to use an E after the G. Another one is fish vs fishes, many believe that fishes is not a word and wrong. They are wrong. Fishes is actually correct, but using just 'fish' for the plural has become commonplace. The best usage example of this is 'little johnny brought some fish back from the shop for his aquarium' is fine in all but the most formal English, but more correct would be 'there were several species of fishes in the aquarium'. I could go on all day, I really love this stuff...

 

I am a grammar nazi supreme, of all my many talents including being an arrogant ass, this is my superpower. (Modesty is for the average)

 

Sources: Never ever made an English spelling mistake that wasn't a typo, IN MY LIFE. And...learned Greek fluently in 3 years. Seriously, I'm a super weirdo when it comes to spelling and grammar, I can look at an A4 word document with 600 words plus, and the spelling and grammar errors might as well be highlighted in red, I can spot them straight away with jut an eye scan, I'm almost the Rain Man. I will write sci fi books when I retire.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Aashenfox

[brillomaster]

I say xmas. if someone writes xmas, I read xmas. same with lol and even omg. I've even been known to say the word 'Omafffga' before now.

 

ps constantly evolving grammar besides, whats the current correct pronounciation of 'schedule'? with a k sound, or a slurry mess that sounds like you've had a few too many whiskeys?

[brillomaster]

pps its definitely 'a hotel'. and 'a hospital' and 'a historian' about the only exception for 'h' when its not an abbreviation is 'an hourglass'

[Aashenfox]

If you're British it's the slurry mess. If you're American you will more commonly hear skedule. Neither are technically incorrect in speech, and obviously both are written the same way so no issue

[coldel]

As an interesting aside HSBC is not an acronym, it an initialism, acronyms can only be an acronym if they are pronounceable. NASA is an acronym HSBC isn't.

 

So. Christmas was always called Christmas. In the 18th century the first letter for the Greek word for Christ which looks like a capital X (Chi, pronounced Kai as in chi-squared the stats test also written X²) is put before -mas (Latin for Mass) for a shortened way of writing Christmas. The pronunciation never changed to ex-mas.

 

Since which some people started mistakenly calling it ex-mas when it was never actually meant to be said in that way. But, that's now popular language. So. Its originally said Christmas, but more recently its read Xmas although there is the odd Brillomaster out there who says it how it is

[Aashenfox]

pps its definitely 'a hotel'. and 'a hospital' and 'a historian' about the only exception for 'h' when its not an abbreviation is 'an hourglass'

 

This is dependent on whether you prefer the old ways or the new. Up until the mid 19th century most words with H but not all, we're used with an. In modern English we have slowly switched to A for words where the H is pronounced, like horrible, and an for words where the H is not pronounced, such as heir. The H of hotel was not pronounced by the well spoken, back in the day, hence the predisposition I and others have for using an in some cases.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Aashenfox

[Aashenfox]

The differences in handling between acronyms and initialisms is another conversation all of its own. I didn't want to introduce the concept of initialisms vs acronyms at this point, but it's a point well made, as genuine acronyms largely follow the colloquialisms rule.

 

Truth is its getting more and more acceptable to just be understood, nobody cares to be right any more, I blame the Internet

Edited December 20, 2016 by Aashenfox