ilogikal1

So that happened. Top left is G-Techniq G5, top right Nanolex Urban. Bottom left is PIAA Protect & bottom right is Car Chem Glass Seal v2. All four have been on for 8/9 days now. Nanolex is consistently considerably clearer of rain than all the others which suggests it works better (initially at least). Other than that, the actual beading is very similar between Nanolex, G-Techniq and Car Chem, whereas PIAA's beading is somewhat poorer which is consistent with the previous test (which is still going on by the way). In an attempt to no overdo the pictures (again ) here's one picture showing the beading better (the sections are in the same order as above). And for the really geeky bit; all four panes of glass are the same size (615 x 520 mm for those counting). Glass was cleaned with Autobright Hellshine Pain and two microfibres just before applying the sealants. The sealants were applied in the order of Urban, G5, PIAA, Car Chem, each with their own cotton make up pad, and allowed 15 minutes to cure with all four being timed separately. A second coat of each was applied after about an hour, in the reverse order but otherwise following the same procedure. Now, as far as measuring usage went I chose the easy route and and went for the weight (largely because it was easier than measuring ml of these things!) of each before, after the 1st coat and finally after the 2nd coat. Nanolex started at 4.6g. After the 1st coat it was 4.3g, after the 2nd it was 4.1g. Total usage = 0.5g. G-Techniq started at 68.9g. After the 1st coat it was 68.2g. After the 2nd is was 67.6 g. Total usage = 1.3g. PIAA started at 106.1g. After the 1st coat it was 104.2g. After the 2nd is was 103.4g. Total usage = 2.8g. Car Chem started at 100.9g. After the 1st coat it was 100.1g. After the 2nd is was 99.2g. Total usage = 1.7g. My first observation is how consistent my layers are. My second being, strictly on a per use basis; although Urban (£22/100ml) is twice the cost of G5 (£10/100ml), it's actually marginally more economical. PIAA (£5/150ml) is more economical still per use, but there's no doubt you'll be using it more than either G5 or Urban (once the durability has finally been determined, I'll quantify that statement). And Car Chem (£7/100ml) is marginally less economical than Urban but ever so slightly more economical than G5. So there you have it, durability aside (for now) that will hopefully help people make their own decisions. Out of these glass sealants at least.

On paint, it's bad. As I understand it, the softer the paint the more likely you are to damage/weaken it with a strong mix of IPA. I'm not so sure on plastics or rubber, although I'd imagine there's a fair chance of damaging older, more degraded surfaces with neat IPA. Glass, however, is fine at any strength. Not so much making unsustainable claims, but rather aiming products at a market with different weather. There are certain parts of America where rain is as much a novelty there as sun is here, in such cases using it as on the exterior isn't so much of an issue. After all, it's completely unheard of for companies marketing to exceed the products real-life abilities of course. Because that's the same thing.

As Lexx said, any cheap All Purpose Cleaner will do the job. Just use the liquid stuff, the cream versions aren't so good for this. If you wanted to use an IPA you can get it from chemists - it needs to be diluted (usually 3 or 4:1 for the 90%+ stuff but you can get different strengths) with water, so you don't need all that much of it really, they'll likely sell IPA swabs (those pre-injection wipes) - but you can use panel wipe or something equivalent instead, basically anything that'll remove any trace of oils or grease on the surface. If you haven't got anything like that lying around already I wouldn't bother buying any just for this one job though, to be honest.

303 is water based. Whilst it is great for interior trim and under the bonnet, it simply washes off as soon as it gets wet so it's virtually useless on exterior trim in this country.

Yeah, probably too much product. Shake the bottle to mix it up before each use too, it separates quite quickly. Polished Bliss recommend buffing no more than one minute after applying and by following their method I've not had any greasiness (or streaking as some people seem to complain about) with it at all - although I've found even if you slap it on you can buff it back and then buff again shortly after (about 30 seconds ish) to get the same finish.

Yep, that. C4 is good and will last a while in itself - although care needs to be taken when applying it to textured plastics as it wants to fill the gaps between the high points of you're a bit hamfisted with the application, you need to work it into those gaps. Nanolex is, IMHO, better though and it's easier to apply particularly to textured trim and can be slapped onto anything with just a foam applicator. It's got a slightly longer flash time over C4 so it's easier to spread. You shouldn't have too much issue with either, to be honest, but to get the best durability the plastics need to spotlessly clean, so spend a bit of time on them with an APC and if you've got any an IPA wipe down just before applying the LSP would help (it's not essential though). Cheers Stu, Both C4 and the Nanolex provide UV protection so it's not essential to top either - I'm not sure much would bond to either anyway actually but not sure on that.

Your wheels are painted. Paint can be waxed. Or sealed. Or coated. You'll need something designed to withstand the higher temperatures than your average car wax, mind you. If you want to do a bit of reading, entertain yourself; clicky. But in short, get yourself some FK1000P, clean the wheels thoroughly, wax the clean wheels with the FK, then you can clean your wheels with nothing more than water and shampoo for the next few months.

At this point I wouldn't be able to chose just one. I could rule a couple out but to chose just one I'd still be very torn between Poorboys and Nanowax. If Nanowax justifies the cost over Poorboys in the long term I'd chose that, if there's not much in it then Poorboys simply due to cost although Poorboys is also easier to use, especially outside. Quite literally the only reason why I wouldn't choose the EcoTouch at this point is purely for the application method. I very much prefer the hands on approach - something that I typically miss when I switch to sealants in the winter so if I had to chose just one product I'd opt for a paste wax. If I were looking for a spray wax I'd certainly chose this - again depending on the ultimate durability, I may even consider it for winter protection but it would have to compete with sealants then. The ones I would rule out already are Hard Shell (I just didn't get on with it at all), the #17's and possibly Desirable (not bad waxes but not better than what I have already). For the most part, application of all four let them down a lot and, with the potential exception of Desirable, it's almost not worth the effort. Desirable gets the benefit of the doubt at this point only because of it's claimed 6 month durability; the longer it actually lasts the more likely I am to reconsider that.

I can't help but feel there's a simple solution to this problem...

There's a massive debate over Fairy Liquid. One the one hand it's a degreaser by design so it should but on the other hand many people with much more (and some with much less) scientific knowledge than I have claimed that the surfactants in Fairly Liquid merely alters the behaviour of LSP's rather than remove them at all. A couple of hits with neat APC will eventually remove it but it's not the most effective method. Something solvent heavy like Tardis (as mentioned) or any solvent based tar remover (AutoGlym, for example) or specialised shampoo as mentioned will do it. Failing that, any abrasive polish or clay will remove it too, as will IPA/Eraser/Panel Wipe.

Update on the waxes, three weeks on. These were all taken on Friday, when the car was dirty - the weather here seems to be alternating between a day of rain followed by a day of blazing sunshine for the last week or so; Friday it was raining so I got some beading pictures, yesterday was sun-soaked so I washed the car and true to form it's raining again today so I might get some beading pictures on a clean car. Or I might not. Depends how much arsed I find today. Anyway, compromised beading on the dirty car; Waxybox #17's; Severely deteriorated beading. After yesterday's wash, it was restored somewhat but it was clearly weaker than 3 weeks ago. It was a similar story with the sheeting which was still there but much slower. On a side note, there seems to be no difference at this point between the areas with the staggered curing times towards the back of the roof. There also appears to be no difference between the areas with/out the glaze underneath either. AF Tripple; Similar story here, when dirty it's severely compromised. Once cleaned it revived both beading and sheeting slightly but this doesn't have much longer left in it, in my opinion. To be honest, 3 weeks from an AIO is about what I was expecting, so I'm not surprised by this. Britemax AIOMax; Same again here really, compromised when dirty, restored to a degree when clean. Not much more to add really. Side note; AF Revive is still going strong on the trim in both of the last two pictures, even when dirty it's still beading well, and on the that topic Nanolex Trim Rejuvinator is still doing it's job - although to be fair it's currently applied in a place that doesn't get particularly dirty as a rule but nevertheless; EcoTouch Quick Wax; This has surprised me. I was actually expecting this to be struggling by now considering it's a spray wax with no curing time, however not only has it lasted this long, there's no visible signs of it giving up yet either. It's kept the bumper remarkably clean - the unprotected number plate will attest to the mass cull of the local insect population, very few signs of which were visible on the surrounding bumper. This is worth keeping an eye on. Car Chem Hard Shell; The beading's not great, but even when dirty the sheeting isn't really compromised much at all. When it's clean again, the beading's so-so - it's better than this but not all that impressive. I must admit I'm quite disappointed by this, it doesn't seem to live up to the rest of Car Chem's excellent products and whilst it's not the worst I've used I can't help but feel there are so many others that are easier to use and give better results. Such as the Poorboys Red & Blue shown on the wing in the above picture. Nanolex Nanowax; Clean or dirty, it doesn't make much difference to Nanowax; it'll bead well and it'll sheet well regardless. It's self-cleaning abilities are very good too, the door was noticeably cleaner than both the sill below it (wearing FK1000P) and the wings in front and behind (wearing combinations of Poorboys Red, Blue, EX-P and Dodo Juice Hard Candy & Blue Velvet). Although the sheeting is somewhat slower than both the Poorboys and Dodo Juice topped panels when everything is clean. FK2685, Poorboys Blue, DJ Blue Velvet, DJ Purple Haze, AW Desirable & AF Desire; Beading wasn't hugely affected by the 3 weeks worth of filth on the car for any of these to be honest, sheeting was somewhat slower on all but the Desirable sections but as that was the worst sheeter out of the lot it just brought the others closer to that - none were actually any worse that Desirable were to be honest. All sections were still quite clean barring the FK & Desire sections (I'll come back to that shortly), whether that's more to do with the panel itself not getting exposed to much dirt or the waxes doing a good job of protecting it I couldn't say, although it's probably worth mentioning that there was no bug splatter even on the lower, leading edge of the bonnet. The FK & Desire sections were targetted by a member of the local aves population, mostly on the FK section but when this was washed off (using just a spray bottle with filtered water) I obviously failed to rinse the area fully as the following day's bright sunshine showed some marks left on the paintwork. These were largely washed away with the rain the day after that, however due it being baked on the day prior it wasn't completely removed by the rain - easily removed during the wash routine though and both FK & Desire resisted the birds "present" well and no etching was left. Dodo Juice Blue Velvet; Sheeting was not only restored when cleaned but actually improved over when it was freshly applied. Nothing else has changed though, the beading's just as it was, as is the finish it produced. Dodo Juice Purple Haze; Again, sheeting has improved since it was cleaned which suggests (to me at least) that DJ waxes would benefit from being left a while after buffing to cure fully. Angelwax Desirable; The sheeting is just slow when it's clean as it is when dirty. Or, if you prefer to look at it the other way, the sheeting is no worse when it's dirty. The beading is compromised when dirty but readily restored once it's been geven a wash. Poorboys Natty's Blue; The beading is slightly compromised when dirty, sheeting too, both of which are restored post-wash. Unlike the DJ panels, the sheeting hasn't got any better but similarly it's not got any worse at all either. FK2685; The beading is comprised ever so slightly, but not as much as the others (despite bign the dirtiest section as mentioned before), sheeting is slightly comprosed but again not by much. Both were restored to their original state with the wash. AF Desire; Although the beading is largely compromised, the sheeting isn't affected as much. As with (most of) the others, everything is restored by the wash to it original state. Overall, sheeting for both BV and PH (and the Hard Candy one too) have now caught up with that of the Poorboys panel(s), Poorboys is still marginally quicker though. FK, Desire and Nanowax are slower to sheet than the DJ and Poorboys with EcoTouch sitting nicely between them, however Nanowax leaves a much drier panel, followed by Poorboys, then EcoTouch, then Dodo Juice, Desire and FK all being roughly the same. Desirable sheets very slowly and leaves a (comparitably) wet panel, however it's now just marginally better than both #17's which have dropped off considerably. Hard Shell sheets about the same rate as Desirable but leaves a slightly drier panel. Both Tripple and AIOMax have dropped off considerably but are still just about sheeting the same as the #17's. You might remember that there's a tape's width of a single layer of each wax on the bonnet. Well (after the wash and in terms of water behaviour) there was a clear and distinctive line where where the waxes met each other, there was a small difference on both of the Dodo Juice sections between one and two layers - beading was no different, but when sheeting the water seemed to want to run along the line rather than over it, moreso between waxes (as I would expect) but also between layers of the same wax. Sheeting was also marginally slower over the single layer - although this could be due to the water not running over the line and down the panel but rather along it. This was only evident on the Dodo Juice sections, the rest only seemed to differ at the line between the different waxes rather than between the layers of the same wax. And some other stuff... Firstly, in case anyone was interested, I used Glacier Wax Pure 001 shampoo. As the name suggests, it has no wax/gloss enhancers and claims to be "wax safe", hence the chosing this shampoo (and avoiding the use of any drying aids/QD's/anything else that might affect the results of this wax test). It's a really nice shampoo, very lubricated, quite sudsy without being overly so, a pleasant hint of mint scent (which seems to remain just as strong after it's diluted in a bucket of water as it is in the bottle. Witchcraft I tell you!) and cleans well. Costs a f**king fortune though - usually £35 for 500ml (currently £20 though) - and even at a claimed 1:2000 dilution rate there's absolutely no chance of me buying this - I used it at 1:1200 this time, but will be playing with the dilution rates with the rest of my sample. Dr Beasley's Wheel Seal - I'm not convinced by the durability of this to be honest. Washed the wheels (using Britemax CleanMax, in case you're interested) and found plenty of brake dust in the corners of the spokes and tar firmly stuck to the inside barrel. Considering it's ease of application, this hasn't surprised me a great deal. It would probably be sufficient if you wash & top up weekly, but I've got plenty of this left to try both this as multiple layers. CarPro Perl - used on the tyres, the Michellins on the fron have stood up quite well with this. They needed a wipe over to clean them but there's clearly still something on them. It might not last much longer though as it's clearly deteriorated since application. The Falkens on the back however didn't fare so well. It lasted about a week on them and that was all. Nanolex Urban - still going strong. Nothing sticks to the windscreen at the moment, even baked on bug splatter is removed by rain (let alone having use the wipers), even snow foam & shampoo struggles to stick to it. And that's your lot. I think. I've probably forgotten something though, so feel free to remind me.

It could do with a polish, Stu.

Yeah, looks alright on black I guess... The Mini looks great considering it wasn't polished. I know what you mean about the texture.

As above, chances are the G3's gone by now however, either way, general rules of polishing apply; always start with the least aggressive option and work your way up until you achieve the cut you want, not the other way around.

That. Plus, Tough Coat is quite solvent heavy so the chances are that it's weakened the wax beneath it and durability will be massively compromised. That said, TC is quite glossy so if it's removing some of the gloss, you're probably using too much product and/or buffing before it's fully cured, at a guess (it's difficult to be certain without seeing it).

No worries, it gave me an excuse to give an update.

Speaking of which, Ricey, how did you get on with R222? I'd be interested in hearing your views?

It depends on what you're ultimately aiming to achieve with the finish; wet look/depth/flake pop/gloss? Budget? Are looks or durability more important? That said, from the keyboard of a man with experience; On a black car for concours, it's amazing! It's probably their best wax in terms compromise between looks and durability, however as appearance is very much subjective it's impossible to say one way or the other, and both PH Pro and BV Pro will give Hybrid a run for it's money in terms of durability... but all three would left for dead by FK1000P. Second to none? I wouldn't agree with that, personally. It's good, but it's not the pinnacle of all things wax (or hybrids, because I know someone reading this is going to bring that up!).

No glass cleaner test, no, but I can tell you what I've used and how I rate them. Megs NXT Glass Cleaner - it's okay, cleans well, but takes a bit of effort to get it streak free every time. PIAA Vision Screen Cleaner - easier to use than the Megs, cleans okay but well enough to remove lighter water spots with some elbow grease. AutoGlym Fast Glass - it's adequate but nothing special, similar to the Megs. 50Cal 20:20 (version 1 - I've got version 2, the retail version, from the branded Waxybox but not used it yet, apparently it slightly different to version 1 from a previous Waxybox) - cleans very well, the flash time is a little short (version 2 is supposed to be better though) so it's not the most economical. Does smell nice though. Autobrite Direct Hellshine Pain - excellent cleaning, good flash time, easy to get a streak free finish. Also smells quite nice. Car Chem Glass Cleaner - cheap & effective, cleans very well, perfect flash time, perfect finish every time. The only downside to this is Car Chem's flat postage rates which are excellent if you're ordering a lot from them (and there's no reason why you shouldn't... just follow the instructions to the letter with Hard Shell ) but make buying single, small items from them a bit hard to swallow. Auto Finesse Crystal - only used it once so far on fairly clean glass, so I've not really formed an opinion of this yet, but it did the job at the time. GTechniq G6 - Excellent cleaning ability, perfect flash time, perfect finish without any real effort. G6 is my 'go to', but I've also bought the full size bottles of Pain and Car Chem after trying samples, so for me it would come down to which one of those three is most readily available to you. I will offer this bit of advice though; whichever one you buy, I've found that the trigger spray heads that come with the full size bottles tend to spray too much product on the side windows, so I usually decant some into a Waxybox bottle and use it with one of those spray heads instead. Glass sealant test though, I've started one of those; http://www.350z-uk.c...40#entry1289288 and as you've asked, there is a little update to that. Basically, the PIAA has given up a couple of weeks ago now (8 weeks since it was applied, we're now on 10 weeks), there's no noticeable difference between that and the untreated areas now in either beading or sheeting but both Car Chem and G5 are still going strong. I have a couple of pictures from the last time it rained (before today) which I've not uploaded yet though, but they're essentially no different to when it was all applied as PIAA didn't bead well anyway. Also, I've currently got Nanolex Urban on my car (as mentioned somewhere in the wax test stuff, I think), which I'm very impressed with so far but just testing the durability. So far it's been quite comparable to G5 in terms of how it works - beads very well, sheets exceptionally well - and rain rolls off at speeds as low as 19/20mph. Application is much easier with a much better working time than G5 but not quite as easy as Car Chem with it not being a spray on job. Ultimately only the durability, which remains to be seen, will determine if I ever buy any more of this. Nanolex is by far the most expensive at £22 for 100ml (compared to £5, £7 & £10 for PIAA [150ml], Car Chem and G5 respectively). However if it's applied correctly you're going to be using around 3ml to do multiple layers on all the glass on a Z, whereas you'll probably end up using more than that doing 2 layers just on the windscreen alone with G5 (I'd guestimate probably 10-15ml for equivalent coverage), Car Chem quote "100ml bottle will treat at least 3 cars twice a year" (but also suggest re-applying every 6-8 weeks!) so that's 16ml - looking at what I've used from my bottle I'd say it's ~10ml though. So it may seem expensive, but it's actually not that bad in real terms. I've got a bit of Urban left, so I may do a similar durability test on a different window of the house with all four of them at some point (and because that last paragraph has got me thinking now, I'll even measure the actual usage of each product when applied to a given, measured surface area.).

I got that. I was employing reductio ad absurdum.

Ill supply the rope then, you go ahead and find yourself a nice tree. Try as I might, I've not been able to find a tree on another planet. Certainly not one within a ropes length.

I don't even want to share a planet with him/her/it.

That's basically Liverpool's grievance. They've stated that he wasn't banned from Uruguay matches when he did that in a Liverpool shirt so why should Liverpool "suffer" for something he did in a Uruguay shirt. However they're not currently appealing, the Uruguayan FA are. FIFA have clarified they will not prevent any transfer. The only question is whether anyone will be interested in paying £80m for someone who can't play until the end of October. Liverpool are too stubborn to sell him for less and they've been here before. I almost guarantee that if he does stay at Liverpool all those fans you mention will miraculously forgive and forget (again) as soon as he's scored a goal or two upon his return.

Which wasn't the question, nor an option and over a week late. Thanks for playing though.

As far as I'm aware, they're a darkly kept secret (like Volk paint codes), your best bet is to locate a McLaren authorised repairer and ask them nicely to mix you some up, but even then I'm not sure of your chances of them agreeing.