StevoD Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 In an odd example it's much like someone driving a car through your house, would you blame the car or the driver? tyres 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 religion was certainly responsible for a lot of wars a few hundred years ago, but as religion has lost power, the reasons for wars has moved on, now its politics and economics. I don't see how religion can be responsible for anything, the individuals that have used it as a weapon are responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I find it funny that as soon as anyone mentions that religion's could be responsible for an conflicts there are always defenders, I base my opinions on my history lesson's and whether I believed or not I would still hold the same opinion, but I guess I must have been misinformed. If people didn't fight over religion they would fight over something else, to suggest religion is responsible is a bit silly in my opinion. Religion is a tool people use as an excuse to perpetrate the things they do. There are plenty of people that practice the same religion in a peaceful manner as well as the ones that use it to go to war or start a conflict. In a world without religion do you really think those people would suddenly become sedate and mild mannered? Nope, they will find another excuse to inflict pain and suffering on others. In an odd example it's much like someone driving a car through your house, would you blame the car or the driver? Personally I think that's just another example of spitting heirs, I never said that religion is the sole cause of anything, mealy that its been made responsible for some of the bloodiest conflicts in history, of course people will find any excuse to justify conflicts and wars, but are we not discussing lack of belief v religious belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I certainly am not religious, so am not defending religion as a basis of conflict because I refuse to see it. But looking at the numbers (and thats what Atheists do right?) religion accounts for less than 10% of all deaths in all known recorded conflicts. If I were to use the word 'lots' then it would be in a context of Atheists causing conflict and not the other way around. I am not defending religion by any means, I am hoping that people who use this as an argument, do not, as it simply isn't true. Yes people hundreds of years ago used religion to fill the gaps because odd stuff happened and didn't have the science to explain it, but, this did not cause conflict. More often than not it was ideology and a powerful and/or mad person executing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 religion was certainly responsible for a lot of wars a few hundred years ago, but as religion has lost power, the reasons for wars has moved on, now its politics and economics. I don't see how religion can be responsible for anything, the individuals that have used it as a weapon are responsible. oh absolutely, its always an individual person pulling the trigger that kills someone, I mean that if you asked that person why they pulled the trigger, religious beliefs would be one of their reasons. There would be no wars at all if people would stop shooting at each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) religion was certainly responsible for a lot of wars a few hundred years ago, but as religion has lost power, the reasons for wars has moved on, now its politics and economics. I don't see how religion can be responsible for anything, the individuals that have used it as a weapon are responsible. oh absolutely, its always an individual person pulling the trigger that kills someone, I mean that if you asked that person why they pulled the trigger, religious beliefs would be one of their reasons. There would be no wars at all if people would stop shooting at each other! I see your point but i disagree There religious beliefs will 9/10 be an 'Extremist belief' Where they read 1 paragraph of a religious book and not the rest, Like people have said take that away from them they will just find something else there just as much conflict in sports, just it doesnt get blown up by the media, But because supporting Chelsea or arsenal isnt a religion it doesnt get glorified Is religion the cause of Conflicts, no, do people use it as an excuse to be extremists yes If you believe there is a god or gods and that they demand you do x,y,z thats fine and your right, just do not force you beliefs and what you believe to be correct way of life on others Edited November 11, 2014 by StevoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I agree and i disagree, i believe that in todays world, religion has caused alot of conflict, but i also disagree that it would stop if religion was banished, we're human, its in our nature to be a bigger/better than someone else, have more money etc.. want to achieve more than others.. so as mentioned, we would get bored as a race and someone would find something else to start a war over. be it oil/fuels/ wealth etc.. it would happen. However i do feel that as a human race we are way behind on evolution due to the fact of religion, if people put that book down reading about myths 2000+ years ago.. and picked up a book on how to's then we'd be alot more advance than where we are today. we have kind of failed as humans, we have enough rocket power to send spaceships etc to other planets to explore but instead we use this power to blow eachother up.. its baffling as to why. i read on here somewhere before, i really hope there is another form of life out there somewhere who has done a much better job than us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 There conflicts through out time are extremist trying to demand there way of live on others on a do it or die basis, So yes if it was there they wouldn't do it but like you said they will do it for something else, Ford vs Chevy, Football vs rugby, north vs south But this does not mean that these people are operating under religion it off there own back To quote Fast and furious lol 'You make choices and you don't look back' The people causing conflicts are doing it off there own choice nobody has controled them to do it, no religion says kill all who say no to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I suppose why some people may believe that religion is responsible for war may come from past conquests. Today, many countries are run and managed under a heavy influence of religion, so when one country goes to war with another, perhaps for them, an intrusion into their lifestyles and traditions is seen as a "holy war" where to the other country it may be seen as to bring down an oppressive regime. Whatever that reason is, it probably won't be religion, but how the oil is controlled in the dollar and so on and so fourth. Saying that of course, doesn't make it any more plausible, yet it's motivation isn't religious. I'm sure this is probably well trodden ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all effectively Atheists pushing their agenda that turned out really well. Anyway, the idea that a religion free world would be a peaceful one is fanciful in the extreme - and that the belief that religion is the cause of 'lots of' wars is also. Its amazing what the media will have you believe, I saw on this forum something the other day (think it was here) but the media would have you believe that the UK is over run with Islamic followers, actually just 5% of the UK's population follow Islam, I am guessing but I bet there is a higher % of catholics in India or something than Islamic followers in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveyboy11 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm more baffled by how sooooo many people can be that thick to believe in something that clearly doesn't exist or is from a book written thousands of years ago.... I mean come on science has shown us the way and in this day and age it's actually quite scary. It's like me living my life according to The Lord of the Rings books or something, it's really that pathetic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all effectively Atheists pushing their agenda that turned out really well. Anyway, the idea that a religion free world would be a peaceful one is fanciful in the extreme - and that the belief that religion is the cause of 'lots of' wars is also. Its amazing what the media will have you believe, I saw on this forum something the other day (think it was here) but the media would have you believe that the UK is over run with Islamic followers, actually just 5% of the UK's population follow Islam, I am guessing but I bet there is a higher % of catholics in India or something than Islamic followers in the UK. Don't forget that atheism is a lack of belief in something. Aethism has no doctrine or core set of values; for example, not every aetheist will be a strong believer in the power of science like Richard Dawkins. All organised religions have some form of doctrine, so it would be very diffiucult to argue that Hitler, Stalin were defined or motivated in any way by aetheism (I appreciate you were being humerous). They wanted people to put all their faith in them and the vision they were peddling - The Reich etc. They didn't want people to be distracted by other influences such as religion. So aethism / secularism was useful to them, rather than motivating their actions. And of course there have been many dictators who were openly religious and many Kings, Queens etc who have used their 'divine right' to do very bad things to many people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm more baffled by how sooooo many people can be that thick to believe in something that clearly doesn't exist or is from a book written thousands of years ago.... I mean come on science has shown us the way and in this day and age it's actually quite scary. It's like me living my life according to The Lord of the Rings books or something, it's really that pathetic. Again, it's comments like this that don't help situations. I feel like it's okay to have an opinion but you need to at least have an open mind. This is where religion pisses me off, one track minded and can't see something from a different point of view. Science can't prove everything, I'm not a religious man - If I had to choose, I'd pick the Matrix theory The universe is to small to make such claims. It's like saying Aliens don't exits....and we are the center of the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Just Because you wanna live in a time of WoW grund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Just Because you wanna live in a time of WoW grund I already am in an alternative universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 science does prove stuff though. lol, bible people think the world started 6000 odd years ago.... scientist have proven dinosaurs where around alot longer before that lol.. Just think a guy can flood a whole planet, but needs one man to save all the animals cmon this is childrens book level stuff.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveyboy11 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) I'm more baffled by how sooooo many people can be that thick to believe in something that clearly doesn't exist or is from a book written thousands of years ago.... I mean come on science has shown us the way and in this day and age it's actually quite scary. It's like me living my life according to The Lord of the Rings books or something, it's really that pathetic. Again, it's comments like this that don't help situations. I feel like it's okay to have an opinion but you need to at least have an open mind. This is where religion pisses me off, one track minded and can't see something from a different point of view. Science can't prove everything, I'm not a religious man - If I had to choose, I'd pick the Matrix theory The universe is to small to make such claims. It's like saying Aliens don't exits....and we are the center of the universe. No fair enough, Aliens could potentially exist I'm not saying we are centre of the universe but like Bradders says these religious people think that Dinosaurs didn't exist, despite it being proven... And yeah the fact they believe these stories in the bible, clearly all made up. Yeah course they lived to 900 years old... Also here's one, the bible says insest is a sin right? Even though the story goes that it was Adam and Eve and they had kids and then everyone else was created? How did they do that then.. Edited November 11, 2014 by Daveyboy11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Most 'stories' in written text though has a real basis - it is commonly accepted that he didn't walk on water but a person called Jesus was around at the time said events took place. Agreed the argument from religious people that 'prove us wrong' is a bit weak when science can prove it is right, that said, science just 50 years ago 'proved' many things, many of which have been disproven over time as we have gotten better at understanding the world etc. To say that science is right because its proven is a bit short sighted and hanging a belief in a very transient set of rules - given scientific 'proofs' are being disproven all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 There is so much rubbish being thrown around in this thread that it just shows how stupid and gullible the public are. People hear of one group of a religion believing something and therefore think that they all think that way. And just to throw a spanner in the works here, evolution, the big bang etc etc are all theories, not fact. Guess what else is a theory. Religion. Those people calling those who have faith, those who are believers, idiots/stupid/thick etc need to take a long hard look at themselves and get off their "superior" high horse. By the way, i'm not a believer, I have no faith in a religion, but I respect those who do because it's their choice, not yours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Im no way on any kind of high horse, i just think in this day and age i thought people would have realised that miracles, rising from the dead, 72 virgins in heaven etc.. is a bit far fetched.. i blame the parents. I think in the time that we are in currently all you need to do is have morals, common sense and respect for others. religions like a penis, yeah you got one but don't go waving it about in my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I only believe in one god, Godzilla. I want to be his friend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveyboy11 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Science, bitch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 There are lots of people in my office who are religious, and I didn't know it until long after I first met them. You get the door knockers and leaflet wavers outside of stations in London but most religious people I know keep it to themselves and accept me for not being religious. To tar all religious people in this way because of a few that shout it out in the street is not fair in my mind. You say its easy to just have morals, common sense (ironic term if ever there was one) and respect but many people don't religious or otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I'm just saying thats what you need in this day and agfe not saying everyone got them lol. i blame the parents, like i said lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well for everyone in the world to be honest, have morals, common sense etc is about as likely as god actually existing... Do we have any religious followers on here to comment, or are they scared off by some of the aggressive posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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