chubbster Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ...What I do think is intriguing is the question of the ethics of someone leaking potentially sensitive and offensive outtakes outside an organisation that employs them. With respect, I think that argument's already been won - whistleblowers rule and so they should. The important challenge (and the theme of this thread) continues to be racism. Let's not get diverted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ...What I do think is intriguing is the question of the ethics of someone leaking potentially sensitive and offensive outtakes outside an organisation that employs them. With respect, I think that argument's already been won - whistleblowers rule and so they should. The important challenge (and the theme of this thread) continues to be racism. Let's not get diverted. The thread subject is Clarkson. The original post links to an article which clearly states that this is "unseen footage". The OP has specifically asked, "So what's peoples thoughts on this topic after today's news from the mirror?" The Public Information Disclosure Act (whistleblowers) not only goes in to the type of disclosures under which people are protected, but also the method that the disclosure is made, with specifc reference to the press, and what recourse should be taken before disseminating information to them. Given those things, I fail to see why what I've written is not relevant to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I wrote the word nigger. Does that make me racist too? FFS folks, get a grip. As has already been said, why is it okay for black Americans to use nigga as freely as I would use the word mate? Yes, there's a certain amount of trying to reclaim the word, and I get that totally, but it's hardly conducive to making a world where either version of the word is unacceptable to be used. @Chubbster: What would you arrest him for? And what should his punishment be? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sailing close to the wind as ever and in reality, probably loosing no sleep over it! Its not the first time he has been controversial and sure it wont be the last, however ignorant and stupid some people might think he is, he certainly isnt stupid enough to repeatedly walk the line and risk his job! Is he racist, i wouldnt care to comment as i know him as well as probably anyone on here However, i do think he believes in freedom of speech, something that is being slowly erroded due to being the political correctness this country seems to have embraced with open arms. Am i a racist, do i dislike someone solely because of their race, no of course not, but am I getting sick to death of being told what i can and cant say in my country of birth by minorities and foreign cultures who settle here, absolutely! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemansim Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sailing close to the wind as ever and in reality, probably loosing no sleep over it! Its not the first time he has been controversial and sure it wont be the last, however ignorant and stupid some people might think he is, he certainly isnt stupid enough to repeatedly walk the line and risk his job! Is he racist, i wouldnt care to comment as i know him as well as probably anyone on here However, i do think he believes in freedom of speech, something that is being slowly erroded due to being the political correctness this country seems to have embraced with open arms. Am i a racist, do i dislike someone solely because of their race, no of course not, but am I getting sick to death of being told what i can and cant say in my country of birth by minorities and foreign cultures who settle here, absolutely! +100 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbster Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I wrote the word n****. Does that make me racist too? FFS folks, get a grip. As has already been said, why is it okay for black Americans to use nigga as freely as I would use the word mate? Yes, there's a certain amount of trying to reclaim the word, and I get that totally, but it's hardly conducive to making a world where either version of the word is unacceptable to be used. @Chubbster: What would you arrest him for? And what should his punishment be? The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so. What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge. The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one. I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side. ...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemansim Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I wrote the word n****. Does that make me racist too? FFS folks, get a grip. As has already been said, why is it okay for black Americans to use nigga as freely as I would use the word mate? Yes, there's a certain amount of trying to reclaim the word, and I get that totally, but it's hardly conducive to making a world where either version of the word is unacceptable to be used. @Chubbster: What would you arrest him for? And what should his punishment be? The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so. What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge. The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one. I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side. ...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done? Get a life man 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Clarkson. he should know better. He has been in hot water before. It is the original rhyme, but he could've chosen a better one. Of course, it was never intended to be on camera as part of the show. We all make mistakes hence why there are rubbers on the end of pencils. I don't believe he is a screaming racist just because he said the N word. I don't think it's a good enough reason to turn someone into a human punch bag. Edited May 2, 2014 by Rock_Steady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I wrote the word n****. Does that make me racist too? FFS folks, get a grip. As has already been said, why is it okay for black Americans to use nigga as freely as I would use the word mate? Yes, there's a certain amount of trying to reclaim the word, and I get that totally, but it's hardly conducive to making a world where either version of the word is unacceptable to be used. @Chubbster: What would you arrest him for? And what should his punishment be? and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done? Clarksons apology was about as meaningful as his use of the word nigga, he apologised merely as that is what he was told to do! You want to have a think about why Ukips popularity is snowballing, its not because they are racist Edited May 2, 2014 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Every other rap song has the N word in it now. I imagine they write/rap songs so they get popular and they make money. When a song becomes popular you usually hear it on the radio, at festivals, in a club. So its gets stuck in your brain and they you start singing it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 i like clarkson, it just a big fuss made by a crap paper 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny cobra Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think its a lot of bo##cks that we cant just speak without some tosser jumps on you ... JC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so. What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge. The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one. I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side. ...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done? Thanks for replying. So you believe he should be charged for inciting racial hatred, correct? But you decline to say what punishment you think he should get for that, why? Conviction is not a punishment. Should it be community service, jail, execution? You must have an opinion on this, I'm sure. I'm not defending his usage of the word, nor the phrase, what I am is against the witch hunt over nothing. At worst it's casual racism, but really I struggle to see why suddenly it's the biggest crime in the world and headline news. It wasn't broadcast, and I would imagine at least 10-20 people had seen that clip either when it was recorded or when the editing was happening, so are we to charge them with casual racism as none of them reported it? At what point do we all stop being offended on the behalf of other people? Ironically, and maybe it's because I don't read The Mirror, but I've yet to see a single black person complain about this. Should they not be the most offended here? If you genuinely believe that I'm a racist because I dared to write the word nigger when it is being used in the context of a debate, then I genuinely feel sorry for you. Would I use it in person? In the same context of discussion, yes. Would I use it in person in the rhyme? Well, no. Would I use it when singing along to a rap song (secret fact: I'm a massive Snoop Dogg fan!)? Yup. Would I ever use it casual conversation? Absolutely not. However, we shouldn't suddenly be afraid to ever use a word when there's legitimate use for it. English is a great language, and whilst we clearly have some words that are no longer used in their original meaning because they are offensive, that doesn't mean we should never write them down when having a reasoned debate, or for educational purposes. That applies to everything, not the specific term in question here, and is a personal viewpoint. So here's a very straightforward and direct question for you: Should the word be removed from society full stop? I'm including all art forms in that, so music & films. Should a black person be prosecuted for referring to a friend in the same manner? If not, why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny cobra Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Does this mean Honky will have to be removed also ........................ Come on guys this is going to far now .... JC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 and the Ossies calling us Pommies..!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny cobra Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Its words cant hurt you ....... JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so. What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge. The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one. I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side. ...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done? Should a black person be prosecuted for referring to a friend in the same manner? If not, why? And so you come full circle to the whole big media scandal that was Ron Atkinson using the very same word, there was even a programme made with big Ron where he looked back on the history of the word and asked varying black people (inc celebs, pop stars) why it was ok that they alone can use the word! Whilst ever people make a fuss, the word and its origins will live on, ignore it and it will go away and no longer be recognised! I would also like to ask Chubster, is it any worse than calling someone, baldy, fatty, ginge or any other insult or words like mentioned above, honky, whitey, pom etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Ironically, and maybe it's because I don't read The Mirror, but I've yet to see a single black person complain about this. Should they not be the most offended here? Sounds like the whole 'Slope' fiasco, the main woman complaining was Indian or middle eastern not asian, i dont see how you can get offended when it doesn't relate you, and all it is is people are 'Offended' it not causing them in distress in there life, i would say 99% of the people that are being offended are people who just hate clarkson anyway if it had been there own little superstar they like im sure it wouldn't be so and they would let it slide to quote Stephen Fry 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 My 350's VIN number actually contains the 'N' word, but in a slightly stylised way that a 90s West coast rapper might pronounce it. Does anyone else's Zed have this? With regards to Clarkson I'm quite ambivalent to him. The "Clarkson" we see on telly, is in my opinion, a character he's created and to love or hate him would be as daft as loving or loathing a character from a soap. I don't watch much Top Gear as it's just an ego show. Give me Wheeler Dealers any day! S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 My 350's VIN number actually contains the 'N' word, but in a slightly stylised way that a 90s West coast rapper might pronounce it. Does anyone else's Zed have this? With regards to Clarkson I'm quite ambivalent to him. The "Clarkson" we see on telly, is in my opinion, a character he's created and to love or hate him would be as daft as loving or loathing a character from a soap. I don't watch much Top Gear as it's just an ego show. Give me Wheeler Dealers any day! S. hang on ego show mike brewer, WWWHHHAAATTT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 For the record, I personally don't class whitey, honkey, pom or any other derogative term on anywhere near the same level as that other word which shall not be mentioned. The difference is very clear from the history books, and slavery has a massive contribution towards the reasons the magic N word (really, I find this very childish trying to avoid using the word itself) is massively more offensive. Trying to argue otherwise doesn't really do anyone any favours. How do people feel about the word Yid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Yid is pretty much forgotten these days, rarely hear it and was an example i was going to use, i used to hear it at school years ago. Sorry i dont buy the slavery thing, white people were also heavily used in slavery, in most instances long before blacks were Edited May 2, 2014 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Agreed, but it's modern history rather than hundreds of years ago. I guess that's why it's still a very sensitive term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackyWill Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Here is the Clarkson apology . http://news.sky.com/story/1253478/clarkson-begs-for-forgiveness-in-racism-row Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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