UPREV & insurance question

[Dicky]

From what I've read the 350z engine leaves the factory with the bhp output set to some arbitrary value but by no means optimised. If we later perform an UPREV we can achieve a bhp gain in some cases but not in all, being dependant upon how the engine left the factory. Also bhp can be lost as the engine ages, in this case the UPREV would at least return some and possibly approach the optimum.

So now to my question!

If I tell my insurance Co I've had the UPREV done can I argue that the engine performance has not been improved only optimised and as it should have been when it left the factory.

They seem to accept some changes, typically with my cars new st st exhaust (made locally) without any penalty, so if the above reasoning holds should I be paying more for my insurance or not because of the UPREV?

[Ekona]

It's a remap. If you do not obtain any dyno numbers for it then you can legitimately claim you do not know if the power has increased or not. However, we all know you will so only if you can get the dyno sheet to state less or equal to OEM power can you say that it's been optimised rather than improved. And if you did that, getting an Uprev would be pointless!

 

I wouldn't risk it. Tell them you have a remap up to 10% of the original bhp (that's usually the first bracket they offer) and see what they say. If it's too much, then change insurer.

[Dicky]

That's interesting about the 10% bit, didn't know that. I've got the plenum spacer, but having to change Ins Co is a bit of a pain as mine won't insure you if the engine' s been tuned. I just thought that if the remap only achieved the oem figure then you should be Ok

[Stutopia]

As per above when I enquired with Elephant they use 10% as the first stage of BHP gains, IIRC they quoted something like £80 increase in premium. That will no doubt include an admin fee so best to get all your mods declared in a batch if you can.

 

Obviously I'm not advocating you wait to tell them until you've done everything

[skyinsurance]

As far as we're concerned, a remap is a remap. We may ask for customer's view on BHP increases but you have to take these views (no offence intended) with a pinch of salt. Eg, I've done this remap only to increase fuel economy.. or I've fitted this 100 shot of NOS but I promise not to use it on the road etc

 

Some insurers ask for BHP increases and base the premium on these, I find this a little backward personally, are they going to rolling road the car to check the BHP increase when it's stuck halfway up a tree after an RTA?!

 

Ollie

Sky Insurance

Edited November 19, 2013 by skyinsurance

[skyinsurance]

I just thought that if the remap only achieved the oem figure then you should be Ok

 

I'd be very careful with that.

[Dicky]

Thanks for your input guys

[Ekona]

I've got the plenum spacer

Since that increases power, and you've told them about it, then a remap isn't going to add much (if anything) to the premium.

 

 

Also, Sky are ace for stuff like this.

[KyleR]

Uprev does more than just change a few timings etc to up the power, response times etc are reduced in the first 3 gears for example.

[Richie-B]

I wouldn't bother to tell them. Never seen or heard of anyone having an accident and the assessor using a laptop to look at the software on the ecu! I think they care more about wheels, brakes, suspension etc etc than whats on the ecu. It would be very difficult to see the map even if they did, remember a map it a tweek on timing and fueling etc in the old days it was called a tune up.... I would have no issues failing to tell the insurance company that my standard car has been tuned up that now adays gets a fancy name like uprev..

[Ekona]

Yeah, don't do any of that if you like being insured.

 

 

Look at it like this: You have an accident and end up piling into a load of people waiting at a bus stop. They all survive, but all need special care for the rest of their lives. The bill is going to be in the region of £10,000,000. Do you not think the insurer might spend another £200 getting the ECU checked? I agree that if it's just a minor ding then no, they probably won't check, but I wouldn't want to stake every penny I own on it.

 

Not telling your insurer about every single mod is just dumb. Read the contract.

[Will370z]

Agree with dan here. If you have anything modified and don't tell the insurance company and something happens and they investigate......it's just not worth the risk, and they do investigate. Ultimately it's a risk you have to decide on but if you chose to keep quiet then on your head be in.

 

I'm jamming and raring about the up rev. Contacted my insurance company and they want a 25% increase on the premium which seems steep so I will wait until renewal! it's not as if I will get the benefit of it in this weather.

[r37]

You should definately tell your insurance company about the remap. Since it adds very little by itself you can probobly get away with a 10% power increace (i gained about 40BHP with plenum, HFC's exhaust and a remap combined so it wont be far off anyway)

 

Im insured with sky insurance and if anything have over declared my mods, mainly just so i dont get admin fees later down the line but better to be safe than sorry if i do bin it.

[ilogikal1]

Also bhp can be lost as the engine ages

 

Does that mean my insurance should go down with the bhp if I DON'T get an Uprev?

Edited November 19, 2013 by ilogikal1

[Ebized]

Fact is the majority of the Insurance companies do not have a clue what an uprev is and resort to the question about power increase, which less face it is why the majority of us have it done.

 

Would they know if you didn't say you had one done? Maybe not, but as they ill do their best to avoid payments and they do find out it that it hasn't been declared following a claim that is your insurance voided, something I would not want with the subsequent consequences.

 

Someone I know is employed in an insurance company to check this stuff and that includes what they find on public internet forums....so not declaring it is stupid, IMO.

[Dicky]

If I get my car remapped and say the initial run indicates 276bhp and the final dyno run matches the published oem figure 287bhp (I think that's what it is for a 2004 car) then is it fair to say there has been no gain?

[AliveBoy]

If someone goes missing and I get done for their murder, they then turn up 15 years later after I've been released from prison and I murder them for getting me put away for so long. Do I go back to prison? As technically I've already done the sentence for it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh sorry, thought we were just making up pointless what if's. You've modified the ecu, it's that simple. Your ecu isn't standard and the insurers can find that out very easily, you need to tell them. You can go through all the "but the power has just been returned to normal" and they can judge it how they like, at the end of the day you've had the engine map changed from standard.

[KyleR]

If someone goes missing and I get done for their murder, they then turn up 15 years later after I've been released from prison and I murder them for getting me put away for so long. Do I go back to prison? As technically I've already done the sentence for it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh sorry, thought we were just making up pointless what if's. You've modified the ecu, it's that simple. Your ecu isn't standard and the insurers can find that out very easily, you need to tell them. You can go through all the "but the power has just been returned to normal" and they can judge it how they like, at the end of the day you've had the engine map changed from standard.

 

Although you said the first part in jest, the answer is no, you won't go back to prison, at least thats the way it is in US law anyway.

[rabbitstew]

Speak to your insurance company and see what they say is the easy answer to this one as it varys so much from company to company.

 

As an example, I fitted an after market stainless steel exhaust to one of my cars once. I explained to my insurance company at the time that it didnt give any performance enhancement and that I had fitted it simply because it was cheaper than OEM and looked prettier. They were perfectly happy and didnt increase my premium. However come renewal time, other companies went from refusing point blank to insure me, to jacking the premium up sky high as they saw it as a modification which meant higher risk to them of me crashing for some reason..

 

Even though the mod may not increase performance some companies take the view that if you have "modified" your car in any way you are more likely to crash and make a claim. - another classic example of this was back when i was 19 and had a 1971 850cc Mini which had about 18bhp as standard. (seriously, 18bhp). A mate of mine did some rallying and sold me his old roll cage, so fancying the rally look, I fitted it to my mini. It weighed a ton, and as a result the 0-60 dropped from 20 seconds down to more like 30 seconds and about 70mph flat out. I phoned up my insurance company and they refused to insure me. In the end the only company who would touch me was Adrian Flux who quoted me double what my previous premium was simply because of the roll cage. Apparently it meant i was very likely to try and deliberately roll the car to see if it worked - even though the car was now slower and safer.

Edited November 20, 2013 by rabbitstew

[AliveBoy]

Speak to your insurance company and see what they say is the easy answer to this one as it varys so much from company to company.

 

As an example, I fitted an after market stainless steel exhaust to one of my cars once. I explained to my insurance company at the time that it didnt give any performance enhancement and that I had fitted it simply because it was cheaper than OEM and looked prettier. They were perfectly happy and didnt increase my premium. However come renewal time, other companies went from refusing point blank to insure me, to jacking the premium up sky high as they saw it as a modification which meant higher risk to them of me crashing for some reason..

 

Even though the mod may not increase performance some companies take the view that if you have "modified" your car in any way you are more likely to crash and make a claim. - another classic example of this was back when i was 19 and had a 1971 850cc Mini which had about 18bhp as standard. (seriously, 18bhp). A mate of mine did some rallying and sold me his old roll cage, so fancying the rally look, I fitted it to my mini. It weighed a ton, and as a result the 0-60 dropped from 20 seconds down to more like 30 seconds and about 70mph flat out. I phoned up my insurance company and they refused to insure me. In the end the only company who would touch me was Adrian Flux who quoted me double what my previous premium was simply because of the roll cage. Apparently it meant i was very likely to try and deliberately roll the car to see if it worked - even though the car was now slower and safer.

 

It's also that a modified car is more likely to be stolen, as the parts will have a higher resale value than standard. A rollcage in a mini would suggest that the car is faster than it is, a thief isn't going to know that you've put the rollcage in for looks and not because its your road car that you take to a small race series at the weekend.

 

A couple of months ago there were loads of drift cars being stolen, the thieves were even turning up with keys for the battery cut-off as they knew they would have been removed.

 

If you had the option of two 350z's; one with several grand spent on it and one completely standard - both for "free" and you were going to break the car to sell in bits. The one with the possibly rare after-market bits would be the one to choose.

[rabbitstew]

It's also that a modified car is more likely to be stolen,

 

True but on the other hand, a modified car is more likely to be owned by an enthusiast who loves his car more than his wife and will take painstaking care to treat it well, never park it anywhere dodgy and look after it.

[AliveBoy]

It's also that a modified car is more likely to be stolen,

 

True but on the other hand, a modified car is more likely to be owned by an enthusiast who loves his car more than his wife and will take painstaking care to treat it well, never park it anywhere dodgy and look after it.

 

I forgot to mention before, it might also be because insurance companies make little sense haha.

[rabbitstew]

It's also that a modified car is more likely to be stolen,

 

True but on the other hand, a modified car is more likely to be owned by an enthusiast who loves his car more than his wife and will take painstaking care to treat it well, never park it anywhere dodgy and look after it.

 

I forgot to mention before, it might also be because insurance companies make little sense haha.

 

Well it's another example of how they use something to load a premium bit don't take into account something which might reduce it.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

 

[skyinsurance]

In the end the only company who would touch me was Adrian Flux who quoted me double what my previous premium was simply because of the roll cage. Apparently it meant i was very likely to try and deliberately roll the car to see if it worked - even though the car was now slower and safer.

 

Copy and paste over from another forum:

 

And when the 'caged car is crashed, the cage spreads the energy of the collision around the chassis resulting in more damage, therefore increased repair costs to the insurer, not to mention PI claims from body parts connecting with the cage.

Edited November 20, 2013 by skyinsurance

[AliveBoy]

In the end the only company who would touch me was Adrian Flux who quoted me double what my previous premium was simply because of the roll cage. Apparently it meant i was very likely to try and deliberately roll the car to see if it worked - even though the car was now slower and safer.

 

Copy and paste over from another forum:

 

And when the 'caged car is crashed, the cage spreads the energy of the collision around the chassis resulting in more damage, therefore increased repair costs to the insurer, not to mention PI claims from body parts connecting with the cage.

 

Now you say that it makes perfect sense!

 

A head on a steel support will do a LOT of damage!