Wasso Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Okay, here's my summary: Why do a LS swap. Easy simple power in OEM format Tune-able and can produce silly power without spending a complete and utter fortune to get there Sounds epic Comparing like for like, slapping a SC on a stock VQ you are held back by limitations. The LS, you have greater scope to increase power. The VQ needs a wealth of supporting modifications and there's a lot more to maintain. Forge the VQ, you are opening yourself up to potential issues. The builder, the parts, the tune are 3 elements in which you trust will continue to run safely. Add to this the additional add-ons to make all this work, you're looking at a heavy 5 figure sum, including the SC. These also need a lot of care, and you're likely to be listening out for the slightest whistle, knock, bang or anything. Ask all forged/FI'd car owners on here if they are on the lookout for that tell tale knock or bang. LS - Forged, and running immense power, because now you're winding up the Turbo or SC and you're looking at 800bhp+ that's not far from 3 times that of the VQ and just double that of the LS. If you're looking for silly power, LS all the way. If you're looking for an element of less risk the LS all the way. I've run NOS and was about to hit the SC route, but put off by the amount of cars I've seen on OE blocks dealing with little issues here and there. High intake temps, belts snapping, this doesn't work, or that doesn't work. It put me off. You've then also got only a small handful of tuners for the VQ and one of them would never see me at their establishment to tune my SC, or build me a forged block. So hitting the ground running the most enjoyable route, IMO and for ME is the LS route. Fit's my needs, and will be exciting to develop my car to the next level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Sorry mate, forgot you were the expert, Ive only been SXOC Chairman for 3 years and owned and run 10 different SR/CA engines, 3 of which were built from scratch. They were 3 modded CA's, not forged (although the 3rd was as it happens, built by a known builder but still broke), the point is that it can and does happen. Out of interest, who are the guys with the forged CA's that have done 25K? As for "Also you say upping the power will put strain on etc etc etc, well isnt that the point?" - no it isnt, not when you can buy a totally unstressed engine for less money that will give you the same return. Oh, and your engine builder from Liverpool will be charging you £100+ per hour if he works to that level of tolerance, making your built engine even more expensive than the crate LS. An LS will be a less expensive and more reliable way of getting 450hp when compared to a boosted VQ. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but if you disagree with that then you arent living in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ok do we forget the vq can still use the same gear box engine mounts and other ancillarys that the ls can't which do humor me but they cost money and a lot of which you seem to leave out of your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Are you actually trying to compare a boosted VQ to an LS? In terms of power delivery, they couldn't be any different. I'm not even sure what you're arguing for any more mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I cant read you doc I'm talking about forged engines you say I blew 3 up In 200 miles then turns out they wernt forged you do seem to only give part of a story so it suits your arguement LoL Edited October 16, 2014 by StevoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Are you actually trying to compare a boosted VQ to an LS? In terms of power delivery, they couldn't be any different. I'm not even sure what you're arguing for any more mate. Me ? I've never tried to compare them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I dunno, I'm so lost! Why on earth are we talking about VQ engines in an LS thread anyway??!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 My head hurts I'm going V-Tec! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Dunno people started saying there no way a forged engine could be as reliable as stock engine I disagreed and got told I'm wrong lol what happened there on in I thought was banter Edited October 16, 2014 by StevoD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think someone mentioned somewhere that Docwra is the chairman of the SXOC, is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dunno wouldnt think a chairman/expert would go threw so many engines mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIXXERUK Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Anyone in the UK done an LS conversion yet? page 7 !! isn't the answer to the op's question either yes or no really ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yea bizz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dunno people started saying there no way a forged engine could be as reliable as stock engine I disagreed and got told I'm wrong lol what happened there on in I thought was banter This is a time for work-ah! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Steve, I like you man but I sometimes get the feeling you are arguing for the sake of it, the MPSS thing springs to mind as well. I didnt say forged engines anywhere, I was talking about modified engines - the fact that they are forged doesnt make any difference to anything outside of the rods and pistons, they still fall into the "modified" category and they are still less reliable than OE. Sure, you can still use existing engine mounts and stuff but most of the cost of building a sweet engine is time, as I said much earlier on Ive costed both and the V8 install is less expensive than the forged build and thats before something goes wrong and you need to replace it. Think about it - an LS can be run on OE management with the simplest loom in the world, the management and mapping for an FI engine would be £2K or more alone ............ Wassos got it nailed, I dont think theres anything to add to that TBH. If you think differently then more power to you, go build a forged engine, have it eat itself at some point and then 10 years down the line you can come back and tell me I was right after all EDIT: And engines? I had 2 S12's, 4 S13's, 2 PS13's and an S14 and drifted for the last 8 or 9 years, not every engine I used blew up either. Id call that good experience rather than take the ****. Edited October 16, 2014 by docwra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) So all forged owners are driving ticking time bombs? Just to add, the original debate wasn't about costs vs reliability or cost vs power Was down to someone saying V8 was safer than FI'ing a VQ. I would just personally feel more comfortable with a Forged Built engine built by a reputable retailer over a shipped V8. (Don't get me wrong, I'd choose the V8 over FI, I'm just saying in terms of ME feeling safer) Edited October 16, 2014 by grundy225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 You like me ? Didn't think anyone did hahaha The MPss point I still stand by 100% tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So all forged owners are driving ticking time bombs? As I thought you would be the first to realise, all engines are ticking time bombs. Ones that have been opened, parts replaced and are running more powers just have shorter fuses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Brand new crate V8 > anything modified. It always will be. Ok, a V8 with 100,000 miles will be less reliable, but an engine running standard power will be more reliable than an engine tuned to the limit. Regardless of forged internals etc pushing a vq to 500bhp will be more risky than leaving a 500bhp engine alone. This is part of what bizz was saying the night before trax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Brand new crate V8 > anything modified. It always will be. Ok, a V8 with 100,000 miles will be less reliable, but an engine running standard power will be more reliable than an engine tuned to the limit. Regardless of forged internals etc pushing a vq to 500bhp will be more risky than leaving a 500bhp engine alone. This is part of what bizz was saying the night before trax. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So all forged owners are driving ticking time bombs? As I thought you would be the first to realise, all engines are ticking time bombs. Ones that have been opened, parts replaced and are running more powers just have shorter fuses True, as what I said to the guy who started this, the same thing that happened to me could easily happen to the V8. However if I had a baffled sump, I may still be here right now At the end of the day it all comes down to the owner and how they look after their car. Question then (No digs at anyone or aimed at docwra) So with the 'opened engines have shorter fuses etc' - by that standard it would be safer to just FI a stock VQ? Another question for people - If there were 2 engines up for grabs for free - which would you choose? Forged VQ or a untouched VQ? (And don't say Forged to then sell and make money ) because going by the current answers, most would choose the Untouched VQ as it would be a safer option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'd a buy a Honda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliveBoy Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Prime example is formula drift. The guys who run around like blue arsed flies with engines being replaced over the weekends are the ones running 2JZ's, VQ's, SR20's. the V8 guys may have problems, but way less of them, until they start throwing nitrous and chargers on engines which didn't have them from factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I don't think any fdcar is running a stock ls engine well not nowadays haha Anyway it's all about the coyote motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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