ATTAK Z Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Consider a lift (for example) with doors in a cascading telescopic configuration. The doors run on independent tracks so that while open, they are tucked behind one another, and while closed, they form cascading layers on one side of the opening. The door in the clip has three sections The leading edge of the last section travels three times the distance of the first section in the time it takes for the door to close; so it is travelling at three times the speed. My question is: If I built a door with enough sections, could I get the last section to travel at the speed of light and if not, why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacW Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Interesting question Try asking it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I phoned a friend but he was too busy to answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Interesting question Try asking it here I have already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmJak Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Interesting I've had a think and these are my thoughts. Part of the issue is the logistics. It would be ideal for this event to take place in a vacuum to prevent air resistance etc, so we need to do this in space. At least doing this we wouldn't need to consider the curvature of the earth or planning permission. Presuming the first door moves at 5mph (reasonably quick for a lift door, 5mph is 2.25 metres per second) the second would move at 10mph, the 3rd at 15mph etc. For the final door to move at the speed of light (671,000,000mph), and assuming the lift doors are 1 inch thick (like mine at work) you would need 134,200,000 lift doors. The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. The engineering feat required is beyond even British Leyland when they were in their prime. I know the theory of relativity is in question at the moment due to some neutrinos, but if we belive it to be true for arguments sake then mass is relative to energy. The faster something travels the more mass it has. To make something travel at light speed, you would need infinate energy, and due to them being linked the 'something' would have infinate mass. To travel faster than the speed of light, you would need more than infinate energy, which we dont have. We don't even have infinate energy in the universe, so it will never happen unless Einstein is wrong. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Interesting I've had a think and these are my thoughts. Part of the issue is the logistics. It would be ideal for this event to take place in a vacuum to prevent air resistance etc, so we need to do this in space. At least doing this we wouldn't need to consider the curvature of the earth or planning permission. Presuming the first door moves at 5mph (reasonably quick for a lift door, 5mph is 2.25 metres per second) the second would move at 10mph, the 3rd at 15mph etc. For the final door to move at the speed of light (671,000,000mph), and assuming the lift doors are 1 inch thick (like mine at work) you would need 134,200,000 lift doors. The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. The engineering feat required is beyond even British Leyland when they were in their prime. I know the theory of relativity is in question at the moment due to some neutrinos, but if we belive it to be true for arguments sake then mass is relative to energy. The faster something travels the more mass it has. To make something travel at light speed, you would need infinate energy, and due to them being linked the 'something' would have infinate mass. To travel faster than the speed of light, you would need more than infinate energy, which we dont have. We don't even have infinate energy in the universe, so it will never happen unless Einstein is wrong. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong Well Chris, infinite thanks for your answer ....... I can argue with only part of your hypothesis but can't decide which part, so for the meantime let's just say that I think you are right but not totally right ............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmJak Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Maybe I'm right in this universe, but not some or all of the parallel ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Interesting I've had a think and these are my thoughts. Part of the issue is the logistics. It would be ideal for this event to take place in a vacuum to prevent air resistance etc, so we need to do this in space. At least doing this we wouldn't need to consider the curvature of the earth or planning permission. Presuming the first door moves at 5mph (reasonably quick for a lift door, 5mph is 2.25 metres per second) the second would move at 10mph, the 3rd at 15mph etc. For the final door to move at the speed of light (671,000,000mph), and assuming the lift doors are 1 inch thick (like mine at work) you would need 134,200,000 lift doors. The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. The engineering feat required is beyond even British Leyland when they were in their prime. I know the theory of relativity is in question at the moment due to some neutrinos, but if we belive it to be true for arguments sake then mass is relative to energy. The faster something travels the more mass it has. To make something travel at light speed, you would need infinate energy, and due to them being linked the 'something' would have infinate mass. To travel faster than the speed of light, you would need more than infinate energy, which we dont have. We don't even have infinate energy in the universe, so it will never happen unless Einstein is wrong. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong Well Chris, infinite thanks for your answer ....... I can argue with only part of your hypothesis but can't decide which part, so for the meantime let's just say that I think you are right but not totally right ............ I would say he's bob on. As your later lift doors approach the speed of light, they would grow to infinite mass, and therefore require the infinite energy to accelerate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantone Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong It's definately wrong! Surely the circumference of the Earth is approx. 24,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong It's definately wrong! Surely the circumference of the Earth is approx. 24,000 miles. Yep, 2000 miles would only get you to about Dubai from the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong It's definately wrong! Surely the circumference of the Earth is approx. 24,000 miles. Yep, 2000 miles would only get you to about Dubai from the UK ~Imagine he meant to say Diameter there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantone Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong It's definately wrong! Surely the circumference of the Earth is approx. 24,000 miles. Yep, 2000 miles would only get you to about Dubai from the UK ~Imagine he meant to say Diameter there It's still way wrong, the diameter of the Earth at the equator is just short of 8,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 this is the only lift you need to think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 What if you hooked up the door to a Federation Class E Warp Core? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 the answer is no. you wouldn't get the last door to light speed. the mechanism is actually set up that panels 1 and 2 actually move at around the same speed. and the third panel chases a bit quicker. panel 2 has a slight pull head start as panel 3 gives some of its momentum to panel 2. (similair technique to how slow release tech works in mechanisms to stop you slamming a cupboard door. so basically regardless of how many panels you had. they would all move roughly at the same speed apart from the last 1 which would be chasing them closed. so you'd only actually have 2 speeds. so regardless of how many doors you added it would still move at the same speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 What about a Transwarp core used by The Borg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Interesting I've had a think and these are my thoughts. Part of the issue is the logistics. It would be ideal for this event to take place in a vacuum to prevent air resistance etc, so we need to do this in space. At least doing this we wouldn't need to consider the curvature of the earth or planning permission. Presuming the first door moves at 5mph (reasonably quick for a lift door, 5mph is 2.25 metres per second) the second would move at 10mph, the 3rd at 15mph etc. For the final door to move at the speed of light (671,000,000mph), and assuming the lift doors are 1 inch thick (like mine at work) you would need 134,200,000 lift doors. The width of this contraption would be over 2000 miles, more than half the circumference of the world. The engineering feat required is beyond even British Leyland when they were in their prime. I know the theory of relativity is in question at the moment due to some neutrinos, but if we belive it to be true for arguments sake then mass is relative to energy. The faster something travels the more mass it has. To make something travel at light speed, you would need infinate energy, and due to them being linked the 'something' would have infinate mass. To travel faster than the speed of light, you would need more than infinate energy, which we dont have. We don't even have infinate energy in the universe, so it will never happen unless Einstein is wrong. Hope this helps, even though it's probably wrong I enjoyed reading that even with the circumference mistake have some internet rabbits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 the answer is no. you wouldn't get the last door to light speed. the mechanism is actually set up that panels 1 and 2 actually move at around the same speed. and the third panel chases a bit quicker. panel 2 has a slight pull head start as panel 3 gives some of its momentum to panel 2. (similair technique to how slow release tech works in mechanisms to stop you slamming a cupboard door. so basically regardless of how many panels you had. they would all move roughly at the same speed apart from the last 1 which would be chasing them closed. so you'd only actually have 2 speeds. so regardless of how many doors you added it would still move at the same speed. Yes maybe, but the spirit of the original question was about if each following door was faster than the one before. Consider a lift (for example) with doors in a cascading telescopic configuration. The doors run on independent tracks so that while open, they are tucked behind one another, and while closed, they form cascading layers on one side of the opening. The leading edge of the last section travels three times the distance of the first section in the time it takes for the door to close; so it is travelling at three times the speed. My question is: If I built a door with enough sections, could I get the last section to travel at the speed of light and if not, why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yes maybe, but the spirit of the original question was about if each following door was faster than the one before. The leading edge of the last section travels three times the distance of the first section in the time it takes for the door to close; so it is travelling at three times the speed. yes but what i'm saying is that the original question was written wrongly as it doesnt travel 3 times faster therefore the question is null and void. he also asked would the third door move at the speed of light i answered that it didn't; doesn;t mean my answer isn't valid just becuase i applied engineering to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yes maybe, but the spirit of the original question was about if each following door was faster than the one before. The leading edge of the last section travels three times the distance of the first section in the time it takes for the door to close; so it is travelling at three times the speed. yes but what i'm saying is that the original question was written wrongly as it doesnt travel 3 times faster therefore the question is null and void. he also asked would the third door move at the speed of light i answered that it didn't; doesn;t mean my answer isn't valid just becuase i applied engineering to it? OK guys let's puts some figures to this and assume: the opening is 1800 mm wide the door is in three sections the door closes in 10 seconds OK let's now do the maths; the leading edge of the first section travels 600 mm in 10 seconds = 0.06 metres/second the leading edge of the second section travels 1200 mm in 10 seconds = 0.12 metres/second the leading edge of the third section travels 1800 mm in 10 seconds = 0.18 metres/second all relative to the lift of course which is stationary so if I built a door that had 3000 sections in an opening 1800 metres wide the leading edge of the first section travels 600 mm in 10 seconds = 0.06 metres/second the leading edge of the second section travels 1200 mm in 10 seconds = 0.12 metres/second the leading edge of the third section travels 1800 mm in 10 seconds = 0.18 metres/second ..... the leading edge of the 3000th section travels 1800 metres in 10 seconds = 180.0 metres/second again relative to the lift of course which is stationary Now the speed of light = 299 792 458 metres/second so let's put that into round figures 3,000,000 metres/second so in theory my speed of light door would need to be: 3,000 x 3,000,000/180 = 9,000,000,000/180 = 50,000,000 sections each of 600 mm operating over an opening width of: 50,000,000 x 0.6 = 30,000,000 metres E&OE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH 370z Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yes maybe, but the spirit of the original question was about if each following door was faster than the one before. The leading edge of the last section travels three times the distance of the first section in the time it takes for the door to close; so it is travelling at three times the speed. yes but what i'm saying is that the original question was written wrongly as it doesnt travel 3 times faster therefore the question is null and void. he also asked would the third door move at the speed of light i answered that it didn't; doesn;t mean my answer isn't valid just becuase i applied engineering to it? OK guys let's puts some figures to this and assume: the opening is 1800 mm wide the door is in three sections the door closes in 10 seconds OK let's now do the maths; the leading edge of the first section travels 600 mm in 10 seconds = 0.06 metres/second the leading edge of the second section travels 1200 mm in 10 seconds = 0.12 metres/second the leading edge of the third section travels 1800 mm in 10 seconds = 0.18 metres/second all relative to the lift of course which is stationary so if I built a door that had 3000 sections in an opening 1800 metres wide the leading edge of the first section travels 600 mm in 10 seconds = 0.06 metres/second the leading edge of the second section travels 1200 mm in 10 seconds = 0.12 metres/second the leading edge of the third section travels 1800 mm in 10 seconds = 0.18 metres/second ..... the leading edge of the 3000th section travels 1800 metres in 10 seconds = 180.0 metres/second again relative to the lift of course which is stationary Now the speed of light = 299 792 458 metres/second so let's put that into round figures 3,000,000 metres/second so in theory my speed of light door would need to be: 3,000 x 3,000,000/180 = 9,000,000,000/180 = 50,000,000 sections each of 600 mm operating over an opening width of: 50,000,000 x 0.6 = 30,000,000 metres E&OE I hate maths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You know your door can't reach the speed of light... so the whole thing is wrong... And You rounded the speed of light...... upward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 You know your door can't reach the speed of light... If I could get close I'd be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 More importantly is their an equation in the world that could get Angelina Jolie, Scarlett Johansen and Megan Fox in bed with me at the same time??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Angelina in mr and mrs smith with her leather suspenders ... Droooool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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