Brembos cooked after 20 mins on track - help pleas

[chris24jt]

Hi guys,

 

i had my first track day on sunday at Cadwell which is a fantastic track! i have an 06 non facelift convertible with the brembo brakes. was ok in the morning session i didnt have a huge amonunt of track time it was mainly my dad driving and going easy. i went out straight away for the afternoon session and completely cooked the brakes after only 20 minutes! the brake pedal would go right to the floor and i had to pump i to get any resistance and had very little stopping power. i did a slow cooling down lap and when i pulled off some idiot infront of my stopped on the pit exit to speak to a marshal! if you know cadwell its a pretty steep hill - i couldnt hold the car still with either hand brake or foot brake and had to sit spinning the clutch and hold it on the engine til he moved. spent a few mins driving round the car park to try and cool them abit when i finally stopped and looking the discs had a blue/purple colour and smelled, could tell they were v hot as well.

 

so my questions are:

1) should i abandon the z as an occasional track car (its my daily driver)

2) have i done any permenant damage (brakes are ok today although the pedal seems a little longer)

3) are the brembos any good? can i just get new pads/brake fluid and use on the track?

4) how much am i looking for a decent upgrade calipers/pads/disks and what should i get? (very subjective i know)

 

thanks very much guys!! oh as far as i know its completely stock brembo brakes likely on original pads as car has only done 14k miles. and its standard alloys rather than rays if that makes any difference to airflow/cooling.

[Wasso]

I had the same issue at the Nurburgring - brakes went after 10 mins, but then I didn't have a clue where I was going and had to brake more than normal.

 

At the time I had performance friction pads and oem disks and of course brembo calipers. What I didn't change was the brake fluid which apparently was the main cause of the problem, with the fluid overheating.

 

Changes I've made since then is improved brake fluid and braded lines. I'm yet to test this new setup, although I'm sure there will be others along soon with more track experience to confirm if your problem was the same as mine and to provide a solution?

[Vik54]

Hi guys,

 

i had my first track day on sunday at Cadwell which is a fantastic track! i have an 06 non facelift convertible with the brembo brakes. was ok in the morning session i didnt have a huge amonunt of track time it was mainly my dad driving and going easy. i went out straight away for the afternoon session and completely cooked the brakes after only 20 minutes!20 mins without any stopping?! At Cadwell - not surprised you cooked them the brake pedal would go right to the floor and i had to pump i to get any resistance and had very little stopping power. i did a slow cooling down lap and when i pulled off some idiot infront of my stopped on the pit exit to speak to a marshal! if you know cadwell its a pretty steep hill - i couldnt hold the car still with either hand brake or foot brake and had to sit spinning the clutch and hold it on the engine til he moved. spent a few mins driving round the car park to try and cool them abit when i finally stopped and looking the discs had a blue/purple colour and smelled, could tell they were v hot as well.

 

so my questions are:

1) should i abandon the z as an occasional track car (its my daily driver)- Nooooo - never!! mine is daily and track slag

2) have i done any permenant damage (brakes are ok today although the pedal seems a little longer)- prolly need new fluid as a minimum

3) are the brembos any good? can i just get new pads/brake fluid and use on the track? if you haven't b*ggered the rotors then new pads and fluid will do fine

4) how much am i looking for a decent upgrade calipers/pads/disks and what should i get? (very subjective i know)very subjective yes.... what's your budget?

 

thanks very much guys!! oh as far as i know its completely stock brembo brakes likely on original pads as car has only done 14k miles. and its standard alloys rather than rays if that makes any difference to airflow/cooling.

[SteveW]

Hi mate as Vik has said 20 mins is a long time without a break on a track.

 

I've done a few trackdays and I feel ten - 12 minutes is an absolute max, I did 15 at Oulton and the brakes started to go away from me, before you need to do a cool down lap and come in for twenty to thirty mins to give everything a good chance to cool down. As long as you give everything a good chance to cool the Zed is an excellent track car, there isn't much stuff that will be quicker than you.

 

I run EBC Turbogrooves, EBC Yellowstuffs and Motul RBF 600 Fluid and have no brake fade issues unless I stay out over 15 mins (depends on track but I stick to 10 - 12 as a max per session). A lot of people have complained in the past about EBC Turbogrooves warping but I have had no such issues and I wonder if it is really DTV that people have suffered with due to not checking runouts when installing the disks. This is a critical step! Any runout over spec will be exasabated after a few thousand miles, I didn't check mine and luckily only needed to get the rears skimmed and I have had no issues since, Mine was caused by a failing wheel bearing.

 

Make sure when you change your discs you use them carefully to begin with and slowly build up the heat cycles to fully stress relieve them before going on a track therwise they will warp due to residual stress from machining. If you have boiled your fluid it will need changing even though it probably feels OK now.

[greasemonkey1234]

Ouch!! You will know if you have warped the discs as the brake pedal will vibrate loudly when you apply them. I am surprised you have had such major problems at Cadwell as this is not as demanding on the brakes as say Snetterton or the Hateful Aerodrome.

 

I have braided lines, Motul RBF 660 fluid and DS2500 pads and DBA discs and these make a difference of about 2 laps more before the beiging of fade sets in, So around 4 / 5 laps.

 

Personally, I only limit myself to one warm up, 5 flying and a cool down lapout of sympathy for the car. The cool down is critical to ensuring you don't get excessive heat soak in the car.

[MrLizard]

i think 10 minutes is about right for the zed as standard, bare in mind that you could do a couple of slow laps within your track time, then push on again, replacing the pads and the fluid and the lines would be a good start and not too expensive to acheive.

 

Something you could do yourself or get abbey to do etc...

 

i used to use ferodo ds2500 for track use and found the lasted much better than the ebc pads and still bit nicely from cold for daily use... not cheap but then you get what you pay for,

[Neilp]

I originally ran standard fluid and discs with ebc yellowstuff pads and I never had any issues doing 10 laps at a time. I now have motul rbf660 fluid and braided lines but haven't tested yet. The ebc pads will be going in the bin as they're not great. Probably Change to ferrodo's for next year. Defo sounds like you have boiled your fluid. The key to it is regular brake fluid changes. I never managed to overheat the standard stuff buy have upgraded just as a precaution as I slowly get faster. The zed is a great track car and built well for it.

[M13KYF]

reminds me of Greekmans Brembo problems

 

 

see here viewtopic.php?f=59&t=27824&hilit=cooked&start=60

[chris24jt]

thanks for the replies all, i am a bit suprised to hear 20 mins is too long a stint though. i was actually planning to stop anyway when i felt the brakes had gone so i guess if i had taken a lap off i wouldnt have know. i thought cadwell would be a hard circuit on the brakes? 1 big stop from over 100 and then another big stop down hill and then straight away another stop from about 80ish? how does cadwell compare to croft or oulton park for brakes? (only other two tracks ive been on and want to do)

 

i think i will need brakes than can stand more use if i go back on track - the reason being i will always be sharing with my dad and even though he wont be as hard on the brakes i would like more of a buffer. baring this in mind should i be looking just new pads/fluid or bigger disks/calipers? really not sure of the best option?? the disks i've got do seem to be fine today - was 100 mile drive home from track and driven about 20 miles today. no vibration detected.

 

Cheers!

[Neilp]

Brembos will be fine! Uprate pads to ferodo's and change fluid to rbf600 or rbf660 and fit braided lines.

[trackpig]

I have had the same problems-

 

change your brake fluid and your clutch fluid while you are on. I've had my brake and clutch pedals go to the floor (not at the same time!) due to old fluid, boiling.

 

On the 350, I run standard discs, ebc yellow, ATE super blue fluid and some cooling ducts to cool the front brakes. This setup works for me on track.

 

P.S I saw you and your car at Cadwell on Sunday, I was in the orange R1 kit car. I might have some on track footage of you, I'll Check.

[greasemonkey1234]

Oulton is awesome, a bit like cadwell with long sweeping curves where you can carry a lot on entry speed if you trn in nice and early.

 

I have not done Croft but I know it has a tight hairpin so that could be a killer, but I would say stay away from the Autodrome its artificially slow and does kill the brakes and not particularly flowing. I don't particularly like it as you can probably tell. I went through a set of 2000 mile OEM brembos here

[andlid]

I have had the same problems-

 

change your brake fluid and your clutch fluid while you are on. I've had my brake and clutch pedals go to the floor (not at the same time!) due to old fluid, boiling.

 

On the 350, I run standard discs, ebc yellow, ATE super blue fluid and some cooling ducts to cool the front brakes. This setup works for me on track.

 

P.S I saw you and your car at Cadwell on Sunday, I was in the orange R1 kit car. I might have some on track footage of you, I'll Check.

^ think the bolded line there is very important for the Z if you don't have a setup that can take a lot of heat... still planning my attack on that one...

 

Go with uprated pads first and fluid and work it from there. Braided lines are simple to install so that might be the third option then go for uprated discs... get ducting done for sure. How long does a lap take around that track?

[ZMANALEX]

reminds me of Greekmans Brembo problems

 

 

see here viewtopic.php?f=59&t=27824&hilit=cooked&start=60

 

 

And guess who fixed that Mike

[ZMANALEX]

You have PM Chris.

 

I have the perfect fix for your brake issues.

 

Alex.

[andlid]

Mind sharing it with the brady bunch?

[1973safc]

i bet its pricey.... keep em cool, its the way forward,

[Stew]

I'm going to guess titanium shims, new pads and fluid!

 

Fluid and pads are a must in the Zed.

[trackpig]

i bet its pricey.... keep em cool, its the way forward,

 

Naah,

 

floating discs, 8 pot calipers and the most expensive pads and fluid is the way forward. There is nowt like talking a fast lap!