No just no!

[coldel]

You cannot argue it didnt sell because of what it is now and that it would have sold by more by giving it more power though. So, you add 100bhp, you need better transmission, brakes, suspension, better engine etc. which probably puts it up to £35k instead of £25k - this puts it in a different bucket completely and a different market. Would you then buy this over a 370z at £35k?

 

I can see the sales arent high relatively, but I am not sure what the sales targets were for the car? If someone has those to hand (maybe the internet can provide)

[Aashenfox]

Would you then buy this over a 370z at £35k?

 

 

Yes, I would.

 

1) Even after upgrades it would be lighter

2) It;s much prettier (subjective, but hey, that's what I believe)

3) It's a nimble sports car by nature, not a semi muscle/GT car like the Zs.

4) If they did give it 300hp, they'd probably do that with a turbo on the existing 2.0 powerplant. For me this would be epic, it would HALVE my tax compared to the 350Z and be less than 1/3rd of what I would pay for a 370Z in administrative costs/tax alone, solely due to displacement.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

If you want something that entertains, you buy a BRZ86. If you want something that has oodles of grip and a much more powerful platform, you buy something else.

 

In all honesty part of the reason it hasn't sold is because of the perceived lack of power, no doubt about that.

[coldel]

Would you then buy this over a 370z at £35k?

 

 

Yes, I would.

 

1) Even after upgrades it would be lighter

2) It;s much prettier (subjective, but hey, that's what I believe)

3) It's a nimble sports car by nature, not a semi muscle/GT car like the Zs.

4) If they did give it 300hp, they'd probably do that with a turbo on the existing 2.0 powerplant. For me this would be epic, it would HALVE my tax compared to the 350Z and be less than 1/3rd of what I would pay for a 370Z in administrative costs/tax alone, solely due to displacement.

 

If it has a V6 in it like a 370z its heavier, bigger brakes etc all add weight.

 

With a 300bhp 2 litre you are now entering VW R territory (entry level Scirocco R £32k ish?) where your BRZ is less practical, maybe better looking (subjective), probably better handling (which would have to be revised to cope with different drive/power/torque etc).

 

On the face of it, you get a fair bit of drivers enthusiasts car for the money - its not 300bhp but then neither is the price. Should Toyota sink another £10m+ or whatever sunk cost it needs to into making this faster?

 

Interestingly, based on said internet search, Subaru claims that sales are bang on what they expected and Toyota say sales (via Scion in the US) are also bang on target its just some markets including the UK it hasnt sold as well as they thought.

[Stutopia]

The "more power" Clarkson thing goes hand in hand with it, the MX5 and MR2 also. Sure in a straight line I'd prefer not to have to shift down on the motorway, but hey ho, that's me being lazy. I could have bought an auto barge to save shifting and feel like you're doing 50 when you're doing 100 (see recent XKR thread!). I'm enjoying feeling like 100 when it's 50, like my first car, drove the wheels off it and never made progress. When I don't notice the power is corner to corner, carrying the speed and being in that top 2k rev band. Brrrrrrrrmmmm!!! Just in case though, I've been researching the FI options. Cheaper than I expected.

 

In answer to your question Ashenfox about target audience, I can only say who's buying them from the owners I've met on the web, there's a few track day people who want a comfortable daily too and low consumable bills. Some younger ricers. Toyota anoraks. I bought it for the colour and the superb seats

 

PS I don't think it's a Toyota, I believe Subaru manufacture, developed and tested them all, Toyota lead on design and planning. This is somewhat confused by Toyota owing a 16% share of Subaru

[Aashenfox]

The "more power" Clarkson thing goes hand in hand with it, the MX5 and MR2 also.

 

And I'd agree with him on those two cars as well, I'd even give the S2000 40-50 more.

 

I'm enjoying feeling like 100 when it's 50, like my first car, drove the wheels off it and never made progress. When I don't notice the power is corner to corner, carrying the speed and being in that top 2k rev band. Brrrrrrrrmmmm!!! Just in case though, I've been researching the FI options. Cheaper than I expected.

 

Yeh, I definitely agree on that front, the BMW 335 I had was just too 'comfortable' to be fun, whereas thrashing the tits off a supercharged mini cooper S was much more rewarding, no doubt.

 

In answer to your question Ashenfox about target audience, I can only say who's buying them from the owners I've met on the web, there's a few track day people who want a comfortable daily too and low consumable bills. Some younger ricers. Toyota anoraks. I bought it for the colour and the superb seats

 

Cheers for the info

 

PS I don't think it's a Toyota

 

:O sacrilege, surely?? I didn't know that though, again thanks for the info.

 

I knew one of you guys had one, couldn't remember who

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[coldel]

I have the faster Toyota

[Aashenfox]

<snip>

 

If it has a V6 in it like a 370z its heavier, bigger brakes etc all add weight.

 

With a 300bhp 2 litre you are now entering VW R territory (entry level Scirocco R £32k ish?) where your BRZ is less practical, maybe better looking (subjective), probably better handling (which would have to be revised to cope with different drive/power/torque etc).

 

On the face of it, you get a fair bit of drivers enthusiasts car for the money - its not 300bhp but then neither is the price. Should Toyota sink another £10m+ or whatever sunk cost it needs to into making this faster?

 

Interestingly, based on said internet search, Subaru claims that sales are bang on what they expected and Toyota say sales (via Scion in the US) are also bang on target its just some markets including the UK it hasnt sold as well as they thought.

 

Ah, there's the thing, it wouldn't have a V6...(I guess), this is exactly what I meant when I said it would still be lighter, due to smaller engine. If they did put a V6, then yeh, there wouldn't be much point. I think I'd go for a roots type supercharger on the 2.0, give it that S2000 feeling (lots up top).

 

The R32 is haldex 4wd :puke: and only available in flappy paddle mode, afaik :puke:. No Jap RWD sports enthusiast would look twice at them, and I love VW as a marque (I've owned 8 VWs in my career, all old ones (pre 1995) except a 6N2 Polo gti) plus, I don't care about practicality (I own a Zed ).

 

I think the price is too high for what you do get, my opinion (they're even more expensive over here, by the way), and as for development costs, I dunno, you really think so much would be needed? Plenty of people put 500hp into their 350Zs using parts from companies that spent nowhere near that on R&D. I realise a company like Toyota has higher standards and a lot of paperwork and safety boxes to tick, plus retail level reliability is something totally different to the reliability you can reasonably expect from a Vortex kit, but still...

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

Back in my MR2 days, we had a pretty close relationship with TTE, and even managed to get them to bring over from Germany the development mule for the turbo kit they eventually brought out for the car to JAE one year (can you imagine that now, a major manufacturer bringing a test car over to a jap show just to stick on a tiny club stand?!), so had a good chat with the engineers about the dev process. I can't say too much, as some of them still work there, but suffice to say that there is a significant cost in both money and time to developing any upgrades for cars. It shocked the hell out of me the lengths they went to, and this was only on an MR2 that sold about 27 cars a year!

[StevoD]

i would love a gt86 as a daily when the time comes to going to a single car i think there awesome cars for someone like me.

 

although if this is true i will be amazed at the Top gear times

Edited April 6, 2017 by StevoD

[Stutopia]

I thought it might do a bit better in the TG lap times compared to the reasonable, but not huge differences in times, except Sir Chris

 

https://www.topgear.com/show/lap-times

 

Reckon the rear wheel drive makes it harder or easier if you're unfamiliar with it?

[StevoD]

I thought it might do a bit better in the TG lap times compared to the reasonable, but not huge differences in times, except Sir Chris

 

https://www.topgear.com/show/lap-times

 

Reckon the rear wheel drive makes it harder or easier if you're unfamiliar with it?

 

did about the same time as a 996 turbo and vx220 turbo apprently

Edited April 6, 2017 by StevoD

[Ekona]

Anyone else notice that all the other celebs had TCS on for their laps, but Sir Chris clearly had his off? Nice to know they're happy to let the proper drivers have full control, fairness be damned!

[sipar69]

I love the Z for many reasons and still get a heck of a kick out of mine, but when I look at the sort of finance deals Porsche offer on the new Cayman S it's hard not to be tempted (especially by one in Miami blue).

Edited April 6, 2017 by sipar69

[nissanman312]

I love the Z for many reasons and still get a heck of a kick out of mine, but when I look at the sort of finance deals Porsche offer on the new Cayman S it's hard not to be tempted (especially by one in Miami blue).

 

Porkers have never done it for me but the new ones look so good

[sipar69]

I've never been bothered about them either but my resistance is weakening!

[nissanman312]

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/04/nissan-says-successor-to-370z-is-not.html?m=1

 

Looks like dan could be right......again lol

 

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/04/nissan-says-successor-to-370z-is-not.html?m=1

[Ekona]

Sadly

[Aashenfox]

Not to worry, it's typical 'don't confirm anything until it's lapped the nurburgring faster than competitor x' . I believe that there's a small team working on it and they'll have something ready when the boss finally comes along and says 'so hows the new z coming along?'

[Jetpilot]

There is a waiting list for the Nsx, order book is closed and a premium if you want one now, how is that not selling?

 

 

Interesting thread though, being there are two dudes on the forum who have recently bought 370z Nismo's and one sharing his purchase price, £37k, I dont think anyone can assume, people will be rushing to a different dealer to buy the "better" car, whatever that might be, its just opinion and choice.

 

 

I do appreciate manufacturers will want to hit certain sales targets though, so a good example of that and discussed is the Gt86, I guess we will never know what their target numbers were but if you believe the motoring press and the purists, thats what everyone wanted, a lightweight dynamic rwd chassis with a manual box, well I am with the fox, I dont want that and I cant see the sales figures suggested that either.

 

 

Give five members on here 37k and they probably spend it on 5 different cars.

 

 

Ekona would buy a Porsche

 

Gman would buy a Mustang

 

Mike would buy a 370z

 

Someone would buy a Gtr

 

Someone would buy a Merc amg whatever/Audi Rs or R8/Bmw M something

 

 

I do hope the Japanese start giving us some alternatives soon as we all wouldnt be on here if they didnt.

 

 

new supra will be in the region of 50k easy and like the NSX it wont sell as everyone looking for a car in the relevant price brackets will turn to a premium german brand

Edited April 17, 2017 by Jetpilot

[Jay84]

Put me down for the GTR

[nissanman312]

Put me down for the GTR

+1

[Aashenfox]

I think unless you already own a 911, you're not a true car enthusiast if your first '50 grand car' isn't a decent 2nd hand one. (tongue in cheek, personal opinion)

 

I'd like a GTR one day, but I'd like to drive a more raw purist car before sampling the computer enhanced goodness of a GTR.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Richf]

I like the GTR just dont think I'd like a £37k one . LOL

[Jetpilot]

I like the GTR just dont think I'd like a £37k one . LOL

 

Agreed a little on the low side, but still, would prefer a £37k Gtr to a £37k 370z