Kids

[Kraziekatz1]

Hey folks

Been really nice chatting to you all for the past couple of years but I feel it's time to move on to another forum!

Good bye & good luck

KK

[Zeezeebaba]

I never wanted children at all. I had plenty of money and errrm that's about it.

My oldest is 18 and self sufficient my youngest is 10 and takes after me to the point it's scary.

I'm 42 now so will still a have plenty of years of reasonable health once she flies the nest.

In hindsight I never really matured as a person until they arrived. I think it's the sense of responsibility that really makes you grow up fast. Strange really as I suppose if I never had them I would be harking on about how cool it was to have loads of cash and living care free.

In reality I don't regret it at all, being a parent has enriched my life beyond words.

If people don't want children that's fine, some can't have them which is sad and some regret not having them when it's to late. The risks of genetic disorders etc increases the older you get too.

I never wanted them but seeing them pop out was the most joy filled and enriching experience of my life and I realise my younger self was just a shadow of what I have become as a parent.

 

[sipar69]

Hmmm that last sentence risks sounds ever so slightly patronising, but perhaps you're just saying that for you personally you weren't a complete person without kids? If the latter, then that's great for you, but I for one would never accept that having kids is a prequisite to being a complete person. I don't doubt I could be a better, more productive, person (couldn't we all!?), but producing children wouldn't be my route to achieving that.

 

Money and freedom to do what you want keeps being mentioned but it's more than that for me - I just don't want them, Kids actually irritate me and I never get on with adults who seem to be obsessed with being parents and talk about nothing else. I don't wish kids any harm and if I encounter them I'm nice to them (I let our neighbour's youngster sit in the Z and start her up because he likes cars and chats to me) but I generally I avoid them (especially in pubs and restaurants!). So I would make me a poor candidate for parenthood. The additional money and freedom is a welcome side effect, but it had nothing to do with my decision whatsoever. Another side effect is that not having kids more than offsets the environmental impact of having a big thirstly car!

 

This thread has surprised me actually. I don't know if its the media or the fact that in SW London if you've haven't got a pushchair attached to you or a couple of scooter riding infants in tow, you don't seem to quite fit the profile of the area. But it seems I'm not quite as unique as I thought I was in not wanting them and having actually managed to find a significant other who feels exactly the same. I'm pleasently surprised.

Edited March 24, 2016 by sipar69

[coldel]

I think SW London thing is the other way around, it has great schools, lots of green areas and is easy access into London for commutes so attracts that type of person.

 

In terms of social stigma, it also goes the other way around, I find it interesting how people treat me when I am with my 4 year old. Its so polarising. I have had comments when I am sat on the train to 'control your child' - like he is some sort of robot with a controller attached to him you ***king moron, I haven't actually switched him into 'loud mode' on purpose. I have also had people who quietly lean over and whisper 'I totally understand' when he has the occasional strop and suddenly all the pressure just goes away and I could honestly hug that complete stranger.

 

Funny as well, when my wife was pregnant people couldn't have been more helpful on public transport, the second that kid is out and in a pushchair she was tutted at, commented at, told to do this and do that - disgusting behaviour if I am quite frank.

 

Sorry, it turned into a bit of a rant...back to my Little Book Of Calm...

[Flex]

Hey folks

Been really nice chatting to you all for the past couple of years but I feel it's time to move on to another forum!

Good bye & good luck

KK

 

You'll be back!!

[Flex]

I have also had people who quietly lean over and whisper 'I totally understand' when he has the occasional strop and suddenly all the pressure just goes away and I could honestly hug that complete stranger.

 

 

 

You, should and just start sobbing on their shoulder.

[sipar69]

Just playing Devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion Coldel, could it be that you're experiencing the backlash resulting from parents who don't do even try to be considerate to people around them?

 

I get that it can't be easy to keep a bored or excitable youngster quiet, but it does sometimes seem that there are parents who don't understand that we don't all find their kids as charming and interesting as they do. I experience this quite a lot in pubs - kids running around like mad making a racket while their parents pay no attention to them drives me nuts. Perhaps part of the problem is that we don't really seem to have places that are solely for adults any more. As you will know, the vast majority of pubs in Richmond, Twickenham etc let children of all ages in now so it's really difficult for those of us who want to relax in an adult environment to do so. Serious question - do people not use babysitters anymore?

Edited March 24, 2016 by sipar69

[Kraziekatz1]

Hey folks

Been really nice chatting to you all for the past couple of years but I feel it's time to move on to another forum!

Good bye & good luck

KK

 

You'll be back!!

No I won't!!!

 

Well, not until the kids go back to school and I need some adult conversations again lol

[coldel]

Just playing Devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion Coldel, could it be that you're experiencing the backlash resulting from parents who don't do even try to be considerate to people around them?

 

I get that it can't be easy to keep a bored or excitable youngster quiet, but it does sometimes seem that there are parents who don't understand that we don't all find their kids as charming and interesting as they do. I experience this quite a lot in pubs - kids running around like mad making a racket while their parents pay no attention to them drives me nuts. Perhaps part of the problem is that we don't really seem to have places that are solely for adults any more. As you will know, the vast majority of pubs in Richmond, Twickenham etc let children of all ages in now so it's really difficult for those of us who want to relax in an adult environment to do so. Serious question - do people not use babysitters anymore?

 

Happy to discuss.

 

Actually I had that exact issue with parents before I stepped into their shoes.

 

We have a babysitter, we use occasionally if we want to say go watch a movie at the cinema, a quick drink beforehand, ticket prices, babysitter cost and you are looking at a £100 night out to watch a film. Yes I understand I took on that cost when having a child, but you can excuse people for not defaulting to them as much as non child owning adults would like.

 

Actually parents who are perceived as 'ignoring' their kids that run around are generally all over it but because they are not doing the same thing i.e. chasing after them or shouting at them to behave doesn't mean they do not care or are not being considerate to other people in the venue. What do you think will happen if you tell a 5 year old not to do something, or if you got up and ran after them, it will only exacerbate the situation and become a bigger 'game' to a 5 year old. Parents also naturally understand how and when their child genuinely needs attention vs unnecessarily demanding attention, often you will see a parent almost ignoring a child but this is deliberate and its part of the long game i.e. if you run to their aid every time they cry out it only gets worse. Most adults without experience of their own children will not understand the psychology or day to day learning that goes on, perception is everything and unfortunately it leads to lots of assumptions that are quite untrue.

 

I agree in Richmond, hardly anywhere for adult only, but they are there. I do not spend all my time with my kid, I have plenty of time where I go off and do my own thing childless, and there are plenty of places because I have deliberately looked. I could name 5 or 6 bars in Richmond which are my adult places. That then brings its own social issues, as much as some people don't like kids running around being noisy equally I don't like adults who talk loudly, slurp when they drink, push in at the bar, are rude, smell bad and clearly don't shower, etc. and all behaviours much worse than the odd kid making a noise.

 

I guess the upshot is if you don't like kids, you will spot the times when they annoy you and ignore things which clearly would annoy other people but have no effect on you.

[Ekona]

What I don't get is why some people who have kids feel the need to drag them everywhere. This is what grandparents and other child-owning friends are for, palm the noisy f*ckers off to them for an evening!

[sipar69]

Just playing Devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion Coldel, could it be that you're experiencing the backlash resulting from parents who don't do even try to be considerate to people around them?

 

I get that it can't be easy to keep a bored or excitable youngster quiet, but it does sometimes seem that there are parents who don't understand that we don't all find their kids as charming and interesting as they do. I experience this quite a lot in pubs - kids running around like mad making a racket while their parents pay no attention to them drives me nuts. Perhaps part of the problem is that we don't really seem to have places that are solely for adults any more. As you will know, the vast majority of pubs in Richmond, Twickenham etc let children of all ages in now so it's really difficult for those of us who want to relax in an adult environment to do so. Serious question - do people not use babysitters anymore?

 

Happy to discuss.

 

Actually I had that exact issue with parents before I stepped into their shoes.

 

We have a babysitter, we use occasionally if we want to say go watch a movie at the cinema, a quick drink beforehand, ticket prices, babysitter cost and you are looking at a £100 night out to watch a film. Yes I understand I took on that cost when having a child, but you can excuse people for not defaulting to them as much as non child owning adults would like.

 

Actually parents who are perceived as 'ignoring' their kids that run around are generally all over it but because they are not doing the same thing i.e. chasing after them or shouting at them to behave doesn't mean they do not care or are not being considerate to other people in the venue. What do you think will happen if you tell a 5 year old not to do something, or if you got up and ran after them, it will only exacerbate the situation and become a bigger 'game' to a 5 year old. Parents also naturally understand how and when their child genuinely needs attention vs unnecessarily demanding attention, often you will see a parent almost ignoring a child but this is deliberate and its part of the long game i.e. if you run to their aid every time they cry out it only gets worse. Most adults without experience of their own children will not understand the psychology or day to day learning that goes on, perception is everything and unfortunately it leads to lots of assumptions that are quite untrue.

 

I agree in Richmond, hardly anywhere for adult only, but they are there. I do not spend all my time with my kid, I have plenty of time where I go off and do my own thing childless, and there are plenty of places because I have deliberately looked. I could name 5 or 6 bars in Richmond which are my adult places. That then brings its own social issues, as much as some people don't like kids running around being noisy equally I don't like adults who talk loudly, slurp when they drink, push in at the bar, are rude, smell bad and clearly don't shower, etc. and all behaviours much worse than the odd kid making a noise.

 

I guess the upshot is if you don't like kids, you will spot the times when they annoy you and ignore things which clearly would annoy other people but have no effect on you.

 

I don't agree with some of this but it's reasonably put. I don't know if you've ever been to the Dysart Arms in Petersham. It's a really nice pub (more of a restaurant really). It serves some of the best food in the area. They used to get some incredibly abusive reviews from people who were asked not to let their children run around the restaurant. Fortunately, they now do what I really like in a pub/restaurant - they put the families with young kids on one side of the building and the adults groups on another. That works well if the layout of the building allows it, because then those of who want to eat in a comparatively peaceful and adult environment can choose to do so.

Edited March 24, 2016 by sipar69

[rabbitstew]

Sorry to sound serious after some riotous posts but I think its worth mentioning like I did on the other thread, the idea that 'oh we will hit around 35 and have a kid then' will just happen, we were in that boat and took a fair bit of time for little 'un to announce himself on the coloured wee stick and for a while genuinely thought it wouldn't happen. Also have a few friends who are having children later in life and having similar issues...

 

On the other hand though, for both myself & 3 of my mates it literally happened straight away. We were all rubbing our hands in glee at the prospect of months of mega bedroom activities only to find literally after the very first night of action that the deed was done. We all were a bit gutted really as that meant any more bedroom activity was out of the window for a while.

 

So it can work both ways!

[Flex]

Poll added.

[coldel]

 

I don't agree with some of this but it's reasonably put. I don't know if you've ever been to the Dysart Arms in Petersham. It's a really nice pub (more of a restaurant really). It serves some of the best food in the area. They used to get some incredibly abusive reviews from people who were asked not to let their children run around the restaurant. Fortunately, they now do what I really like in a pub/restaurant - they put the families with young kids on one side of the building and the adults groups on another. That works well if the layout of the building allows it, because then those of who want to eat in a comparatively peaceful and adult environment can choose to do so.

 

Of course there are people with kids that are rude and refuse to cooperate, and rightly so you would get annoyed. There are plenty of adults who behave the same way who don't have kids, in fact many more of them than those with kids in venues, you have to deal with them all equally. Would you ask some who talks overly loud to leave the bar or talk quieter. Would you ask people to go sit back down if they push in at the bar.

 

My point is live the parents shoes, next time you see the situation check out the parent closely, yes they could just be ignorant and rude but its not always that, in most cases its that they are hugely stressed, really do not want their child to be causing all that fuss and would give the world for their child to sit and be quiet but just need a little understanding...I don't think for other people that is an unreasonable ask in the first instance. Remember, that screaming kid could grown up to a be doctor that one day saves your life on an operating table...give them a little slack

[sipar69]

Those questions are class.

[sipar69]

 

I don't agree with some of this but it's reasonably put. I don't know if you've ever been to the Dysart Arms in Petersham. It's a really nice pub (more of a restaurant really). It serves some of the best food in the area. They used to get some incredibly abusive reviews from people who were asked not to let their children run around the restaurant. Fortunately, they now do what I really like in a pub/restaurant - they put the families with young kids on one side of the building and the adults groups on another. That works well if the layout of the building allows it, because then those of who want to eat in a comparatively peaceful and adult environment can choose to do so.

 

Of course there are people with kids that are rude and refuse to cooperate, and rightly so you would get annoyed. There are plenty of adults who behave the same way who don't have kids, in fact many more of them than those with kids in venues, you have to deal with them all equally. Would you ask some who talks overly loud to leave the bar or talk quieter. Would you ask people to go sit back down if they push in at the bar.

 

My point is live the parents shoes, next time you see the situation check out the parent closely, yes they could just be ignorant and rude but its not always that, in most cases its that they are hugely stressed, really do not want their child to be causing all that fuss and would give the world for their child to sit and be quiet but just need a little understanding...I don't think for other people that is an unreasonable ask in the first instance. Remember, that screaming kid could grown up to a be doctor that one day saves your life on an operating table...give them a little slack

 

I almost read the last few words as "give them a little smack"

[mouthwash]

Those poll questions

[nowhereboy]

Not a child friendly zone on here eh! haha.

 

As I said on the other thread, I'm a step parent so times any struggles a bio parent would have by ten and you get the idea.

 

All the difficulties, responsibility, financial and emotional work, with non of the real benefits, privileges or control a bio Parent would have. Teachers look at me like I'm some sort of stranger, I get ZERO recognition from anyone apart from my other half for the efforts I put in. It's hard but I'd never change it now I'm here.

[nowhereboy]

Oh and do I want my own? Not right now, maybe one day but by the time my step child is grown I'm not sure I could face doing it all again to be honest.

[ZEUS]

Hmmm that last sentence risks sounds ever so slightly patronising, but perhaps you're just saying that for you personally you weren't a complete person without kids? If the latter, then that's great for you, but I for one would never accept that having kids is a prequisite to being a complete person. I don't doubt I could be a better, more productive, person (couldn't we all!?), but producing children wouldn't be my route to achieving that.

 

Money and freedom to do what you want keeps being mentioned but it's more than that for me - I just don't want them, Kids actually irritate me and I never get on with adults who seem to be obsessed with being parents and talk about nothing else. I don't wish kids any harm and if I encounter them I'm nice to them (I let our neighbour's youngster sit in the Z and start her up because he likes cars and chats to me) but I generally I avoid them (especially in pubs and restaurants!). So I would make me a poor candidate for parenthood. The additional money and freedom is a welcome side effect, but it had nothing to do with my decision whatsoever. Another side effect is that not having kids more than offsets the environmental impact of having a big thirstly car!

 

This thread has surprised me actually. I don't know if its the media or the fact that in SW London if you've haven't got a pushchair attached to you or a couple of scooter riding infants in tow, you don't seem to quite fit the profile of the area. But it seems I'm not quite as unique as I thought I was in not wanting them and having actually managed to find a significant other who feels exactly the same. I'm pleasently surprised.

 

It's funny how very similar our views are to children

[rabbitstew]

My point is live the parents shoes, next time you see the situation check out the parent closely, yes they could just be ignorant and rude but its not always that, in most cases its that they are hugely stressed, really do not want their child to be causing all that fuss and would give the world for their child to sit and be quiet but just need a little understanding...

 

I agree with this. I remember screaming children used to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and id want to just strangle them or give the parents a slap. But, once you have your own kids you get used to it and it doesnt seem to affect you as much. Kids have a very low attention span usually and it takes a lot of hard work to get them to sit anywhere and be quiet for any length of time. They also like to play games and want you to join in (hence running about a busy pub if you dare take them there for a meal - hence most parents would take them to a pub with a kiddies soft play area so the kid can run about in that whilst you get chance to half eat a meal)

 

Another couple of things I dont think people have mentioned on this thread yet is.

 

1) Having to put up with mental mood swings and emotions for 12 months from the mother as she goes through the whole pregnancy thing. Sometimes even longer if it takes longer to conceive and even longer if she suffers from post natal depression afterwards. So you could end up with 18 months or more of living in hell. (cant be much fun for the woman either)

 

2) What happens if things go wrong at any stage during the pregnancy or even during/after birth. Having been through both of these its again, a hugely emotional and stressful experience which isnt nice and can take a years for things to get remotely back to "normal". (not that they ever do).

 

So deciding to have kids shouldnt be taken lightly!

Edited March 24, 2016 by rabbitstew

[Ekona]

When we have them, I'm pretty sure we're going to adopt. Jo wants a baby, I'd rather have a two-three year old that I can at least vaguely start communicating with. Babies hold no interest for me at all: They're all fat, ugly, smelly and make the most annoying noises in the world. No, I'll take my child a little older thanks.

[MrsNiki]

Dan, boy babies do not grow out of most of the above

[Ekona]

But at least you can take them to the football*!

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, I know girls can like football too

[Flex]

Someone's voted that it's selfish not to have them! Shame on you