The 2016 F1 chat thread

[brillomaster]

but F1 are trying all sorts of crazy stuff as well, double points for the final race, weird elimination qualifying format, completely meaningless 70-place grid penalties for component changes... at least the BTCC is consistent, the format hasn't changed for the last 5-6 years.

[docwra]

What are the rule changes that might change the situation and to play devils advocate, isnt it all the rules and regs thats killing it in the first place?

 

I supply into F1 (and WEC, and DTM) so have a little more insight than most, Im also lucky enough to regularly talk to people that do this for a living ............ but the biggest problems are obvious to me without expert input.

 

The Mercs are all beating and unstoppable? Not if they arent in clean air .......... and this is the biggest change that has to be made, less reliance on Fancy Dan aero. Make it a single plane front wing and the same at the back and ban CFD and FEA research and presto-hey, cars can run effectively in dirty air and youve reduced each teams annual budget by about 30%. If more downforce is needed reintroduce ground effects that arent affected by turbulence.

 

The cars need to be difficult to drive as well, less downforce will help this but why not go to 1000hp as well? Now that teams will actually be competing against each other without aero getting in the way you can remove the synthetic "tactical" element of tyres and just give them something that will work all race - this will also reduce costs.

 

Finally, run it like an actual business and not some evil dwarf's plaything. The media rights are massive, so why arent more of them goin to the teams - see also prize and overall sponsorship money. Why should there be a net cost for places like Monza, Silverstone and Monaco money to run races, why should fans have to part with a weeks wages to see a race? These circuits and these fans are what keeps F1 alive, not Bernies ever increasing bank account.

 

There are some other things Id like to see (low grip just outside of track limits to dissuade drivers from trying to gain unfair advantage, free TV coverage, less penalties) but simply sorting the aero and adding some power would make it a much better spectacle.

[Ekona]

but F1 are trying all sorts of crazy stuff as well, double points for the final race, weird elimination qualifying format, completely meaningless 70-place grid penalties for component changes... at least the BTCC is consistent, the format hasn't changed for the last 5-6 years.

Oh I agree, F1 did try some silly things but then realised how duff they were and changed back. BTCC still haven't realised that yet I dunno, I get why people find it exciting but for me it's just far too random, and to me that's not racing: That's a lottery.

 

In fairness I dislike WEC when they try and faff around with the BOP rules as well, like this year when they wrecked the Aston and Porsche GT cars just so that there would be a Ferrari vs Ford battle in GTP. That's also stupid fiddling nonsense.

[Bandit]

For all those who don't have a Sky F1 subscription get a Kodi Box.

[Ekona]

And probably soon, since there's a court case going on now to determine their legality and you can guess which way that's going to end up.

 

Trouble with those boxes, and indeed all those internet-based things, is that the quality is dreadful compared with the real thing. I've yet to find a stream that's HD and stable, and whilst SD is fine on a phone when you put it on a TV it looks shocking.

[Bandit]

Well worth a watch.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Bandit

[Bandit]

And probably soon, since there's a court case going on now to determine their legality and you can guess which way that's going to end up.

 

Trouble with those boxes, and indeed all those internet-based things, is that the quality is dreadful compared with the real thing. I've yet to find a stream that's HD and stable, and whilst SD is fine on a phone when you put it on a TV it looks shocking.

 

Ive got Sky and Kodi. I use Kodi for Indi and NASCAR racing always get a perfect picture. No interference or breakup think it depends on your broadband speed. Also its great for Sky rip off Pay Per View and films.

[Ekona]

Define perfect?

 

For me, it'll be stable up until the point it disappears completely, but in terms of quality it's SD at best. And no 5.1 either! This is all on 40meg.

[Bandit]

Define perfect?

 

For me, it'll be stable up until the point it disappears completely, but in terms of quality it's SD at best. And no 5.1 either! This is all on 40meg.

 

Have you done all the firmware updates on the Kodi Box. I have Sky + HD and I agree its not as good obviously, but its not bad either and I don't get picture breakup or loose the link, I agree some addons are better than others, its a question of been patient and finding them, then noting where they are.

[Ekona]

I don't have a separate Kodi box, I use the software on my full PC. Maybe it's just the links on mine then, but they're nothing more than acceptable and in SD.

 

Do you have links for a full HD stream then?

[Bandit]

I don't have a separate Kodi box, I use the software on my full PC. Maybe it's just the links on mine then, but they're nothing more than acceptable and in SD.

 

Do you have links for a full HD stream then?

 

Yes bought a proper Kodi Box separate not just just downloaded the software, Get full HD and also set up for 4K.

Not expensive about £40 for a full access one, but you need to keep the firmware up to date.

[Ekona]

Horsepower isn't the issue (i7, 12GB, 980 on my main PC!), after all it's just an internet link to a stream.

[Bandit]

Horsepower isn't the issue (i7, 12GB, 980 on my main PC!), after all it's just an internet link to a stream.

 

Sorry Ekona, don't know the answer then as to why yours is poor quality and dropping out.

Watched a few films over the weekend on it superb quality, its connected up to my Sony Bravia big screen TV via HDMI.

[Jetpilot]

What are the rule changes that might change the situation and to play devils advocate, isnt it all the rules and regs thats killing it in the first place?

 

I supply into F1 (and WEC, and DTM) so have a little more insight than most, Im also lucky enough to regularly talk to people that do this for a living ............ but the biggest problems are obvious to me without expert input.

 

The Mercs are all beating and unstoppable? Not if they arent in clean air .......... and this is the biggest change that has to be made, less reliance on Fancy Dan aero. Make it a single plane front wing and the same at the back and ban CFD and FEA research and presto-hey, cars can run effectively in dirty air and youve reduced each teams annual budget by about 30%. If more downforce is needed reintroduce ground effects that arent affected by turbulence.

 

The cars need to be difficult to drive as well, less downforce will help this but why not go to 1000hp as well? Now that teams will actually be competing against each other without aero getting in the way you can remove the synthetic "tactical" element of tyres and just give them something that will work all race - this will also reduce costs.

 

Finally, run it like an actual business and not some evil dwarf's plaything. The media rights are massive, so why arent more of them goin to the teams - see also prize and overall sponsorship money. Why should there be a net cost for places like Monza, Silverstone and Monaco money to run races, why should fans have to part with a weeks wages to see a race? These circuits and these fans are what keeps F1 alive, not Bernies ever increasing bank account.

 

There are some other things Id like to see (low grip just outside of track limits to dissuade drivers from trying to gain unfair advantage, free TV coverage, less penalties) but simply sorting the aero and adding some power would make it a much better spectacle.

 

Interesting, so if that is the answer, surely its easy to implement, so why dont they? I am guessing the manufacturers?

 

Last year Ducati started adding winglets on their MotoGp bikes, they have gotten more elaborate this year and other manufacturers started following suit, however, they have been banned from the end of this year. The winglets are only said to keep the front end down and obviously are have nothing like the aero advantages that an F1 car achieves, bikes dont sit in a static position obviously. The main reason was purely to keep development costs down, so it does follow your points above.

[docwra]

My feeling is its in no small part to the "old guard" protecting their positions, the same as the way the money is split - if they continue using high levels of nearly unobtainable engineering then it makes it harder for a Haas or Manor to break in and actually be successful.

 

I also think there is an element of them having to be seen to use "bleeding edge" technology in order to maintain the position as the number 1 series in the world, but the tech has overtaken the spectacle though and thats pretty unsustainable .......... but it does keep McLaren, RBR, Ferrari and Mercedes at the top, and their sponsors getting all the coverage. someone needs to challenge the status quo but I dont know who would be big enough to.

[Jetpilot]

I guess that time will come when its on its knees as a series and judging by peoples attitude on here and from devoted (not so now) F1 fans i know, i cant help but think its not that far away.

[Ekona]

I also think there is an element of them having to be seen to use "bleeding edge" technology in order to maintain the position as the number 1 series in the world, but the tech has overtaken the spectacle though and thats pretty unsustainable .......... but it does keep McLaren, RBR, Ferrari and Mercedes at the top, and their sponsors getting all the coverage. someone needs to challenge the status quo but I dont know who would be big enough to.

Audi If they leave WEC next year and let Porsche fly the VW brand, then they could definitely shake things up IF they buy the right team. I wonder how close they were to buying RBR when that team were struggling to find an engine for this year?

 

F1 definitely needs a structure change. Not getting rid of Bernie as he's done so much good to the sport (genuinely, go read No Angel by Tom Bower), but those that run it alongside him. The new owners could be very good for the sport. Half the issue is the teams themselves, under the Concorde agreement that does nothing but line the pockets of Ferrari and, to a lesser extent, McLaren. Really F1 could do itself a huge favour by refusing to pander to the Prancing Horse, let Maranello leave and carry on without them. Ferrari need F1 as much as the reverse is true, but no-one has ever had the balls to test them.

[marzman]

What are the rule changes that might change the situation and to play devils advocate, isnt it all the rules and regs thats killing it in the first place?

 

I supply into F1 (and WEC, and DTM) so have a little more insight than most, Im also lucky enough to regularly talk to people that do this for a living ............ but the biggest problems are obvious to me without expert input.

 

The Mercs are all beating and unstoppable? Not if they arent in clean air .......... and this is the biggest change that has to be made, less reliance on Fancy Dan aero. Make it a single plane front wing and the same at the back and ban CFD and FEA research and presto-hey, cars can run effectively in dirty air and youve reduced each teams annual budget by about 30%. If more downforce is needed reintroduce ground effects that arent affected by turbulence.

 

The cars need to be difficult to drive as well, less downforce will help this but why not go to 1000hp as well? Now that teams will actually be competing against each other without aero getting in the way you can remove the synthetic "tactical" element of tyres and just give them something that will work all race - this will also reduce costs.

 

Finally, run it like an actual business and not some evil dwarf's plaything. The media rights are massive, so why arent more of them goin to the teams - see also prize and overall sponsorship money. Why should there be a net cost for places like Monza, Silverstone and Monaco money to run races, why should fans have to part with a weeks wages to see a race? These circuits and these fans are what keeps F1 alive, not Bernies ever increasing bank account.

 

There are some other things Id like to see (low grip just outside of track limits to dissuade drivers from trying to gain unfair advantage, free TV coverage, less penalties) but simply sorting the aero and adding some power would make it a much better spectacle.

 

[docwra]

I also think there is an element of them having to be seen to use "bleeding edge" technology in order to maintain the position as the number 1 series in the world, but the tech has overtaken the spectacle though and thats pretty unsustainable .......... but it does keep McLaren, RBR, Ferrari and Mercedes at the top, and their sponsors getting all the coverage. someone needs to challenge the status quo but I dont know who would be big enough to.

 

Audi If they leave WEC next year and let Porsche fly the VW brand, then they could definitely shake things up IF they buy the right team. I wonder how close they were to buying RBR when that team were struggling to find an engine for this year?

 

VW is the obvious choice (until the emissions thing anyway) ........ I think I can actually say this now .......... VW were seriously looking at buying Toro Rosso and running it as Lamborghini a few years ago. Anyone care to hazard a guess where Stefano Domenicali ended up after Ferrari as well?

 

Its only a matter of time IMO, I dont think Sauber can run as an independent indefinitely either.

[Ekona]

Hah, suddenly the Domenicali thing makes perfect sense! Always felt he got a bum steer after being booted from Ferrari.

 

I'm not sure the Lambo brand is entirely suited to F1, but then it's definitely more suited than Audi is! Sauber are running on peanuts I think, and Manor aren't exactly stable either. Force India too to a lesser extent, and you have to wonder if Haas have the guts to run for a few more years if they don't get any further forward.

[docwra]

After I got burnt on Caterham we wont even approach Sauber, Renault, Manor, Force India or Haas as its too risky

[Ekona]

Not surprised at all, I can't see anyone without unlimited funds taking a risk on any of them.

[Bandit]

Great Japan qualifying SOOOOO close. Should be a good race. Whose getting up to watch it live..??

[Bandit]

Fernando Alonso new girlfriend Valentino Rossi's Ex Google, Linda Morselli, some nice photos of her I couldn't possibly post on here..!

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Bandit

[Ekona]

Lewis has lost it. Not just the championship, but the entire plot.