Ekona

4 doors, 4 seats, new or 1yr old, power, ability to make you smile... VXR8 is the only thing I can think of. Everything else is either well over budget (M, AMG etc) or dull as dishwater (diesels). That'd be a great car to own, I think.

Think about how much the bare materials cost. Then think about the labour to make it. Then think about the tooling required. Then think about the manufacturer making a profit. Then think about the seller making a profit. Then think just how little all of those sums have to be to make the price what it is. Is cheaper always good? Or to put it more simply, it's like a £5 bottle of wine compared with a £10 bottle of wine. Ultimately they both do the same thing, but when you factor in profit you realise just how cheaply made the £5 must be, which is why you put up with it rather than savour it. That said, sometimes I've come across cheap wines that were actually pretty good for what they are, so it can be done but it's the exception rather than the rule. Dare you take a punt?

Blimey, didn't see that one coming. Shame as you loved that car, but like you say we all to move on at some point.

Polish, or wax?

Ekona, next time you speak to them ask when customers will be able to order them from, the dealership I am using seem to know sod all Will do matey

Saw that earlier, why on earth would you lean your arm on the door mid-corner?! Depressing that the marshals let him carry on overtaking under braking and in the corners.

This is a time for work-ah!

I dunno, I'm so lost! Why on earth are we talking about VQ engines in an LS thread anyway??!!

Are you actually trying to compare a boosted VQ to an LS? In terms of power delivery, they couldn't be any different. I'm not even sure what you're arguing for any more mate.

No-one said forged engines are unreliable. What we're saying is that modifying anything (engines, phones, whatever) from their original spec to massively increase performance is very likely to make it less reliable than stock. I would not avoid a forged 500bhp VQ. I just would never have the expectation that it would then be as reliable as a 276bhp VQ.

And the one thing in common is you? Right, no-one ever hand Steve your keys

*sigh* Okay, you win. If you genuinely believe that a stock engine tuned for maximum reliability to make sure the multi-billion pound car company don't get stuck with a load of warranty issues is less reliable than an engine taken apart and put back together by a man in a shed and tuned for MAXIMUM POWAAAAHHHH, then I'm fine with that. Some engines are weaker than others, that happens. As a genuine rule, the very vast majority of stock engines are much more reliable than those that are built up by tuners.

*facepalm* When run as per the factory, they don't fail with any regularity to be able to say they're 'made of chocolate'. If you start turning up the wick, then of course they're more prone to failure! If a manufacturer builds a bombproof engine then they have to charge much more for that, and then everyone complains it's too expensive and no-one buys one. Does that make sense?

Thing is, would you be prepared to pay £10K more on a car for a built engine from factory?

@StevoD: From the factory, yes. From a third party engine builder, possibly. Again though, how many of these cars are being run as stock, or with mild performance increases? Turbocharged cars naturally end up with about 50-100bhp more than they were designed for, but NA engines with only a few percent extra bhp are usually fine. In stock form, all those engines that Doc mentioned are pretty solid, as is the Subaru 2.5L and the Mini engines (not sure if you mean the SC lump or the turbo one).

I like Motul stuff, but it's pricey and probably only for those who regularly explore the limits of their cars. I've also used Fuchs Titan too which I was very happy with on my Zed, and would definitely recommend.

Which engines in particular?

Having seen first hand how incredibly thin Magnatec goes when warm, it's not something I would ever use again. Yes, it meets all the specs and I agree that it should be of an equal standard, but my own eyes do not deceive me and it's not a risk I'm prepared to take. I've seen incredible wear on engines that have been run with Magnatec, and it was horrendous to witness. Ultimately if it's in budget and it's the only thing you can find then it's clearly better than no oil at all, and better than a mineral oil, but I still would only use it in an emergency.

Then I'd definitely have one

It's also more complicated. By increasing the strength of the engine via engineering stronger parts you need to do more testing to prove that you're on the right track, and at big power levels that's neither cheap nor easy for long-term usage. I'd have no issue at all running a built engine carried out by someone else, but I'd also accept that having someone else fiddling around rather than a computerised factory robot doing it is likely to cause more weak points. Human error and all that. But yes, cost is the primary issue.

Now that's a good looking race car

Sorry man but it makes perfect sense - a VQ running anything above standard power is more likely to go bang than an LS running standard power, and its pretty fair to say theres a lot more to go wrong with an FI setup than with NA as well, regardless of how well it was built. You were unlucky, but relatively speaking there arent a lot of engine failures on here, which would suggest the VQ is a pretty solid lump, EJ20's, RB26 and CA18's are all much, much worse and can you guess what they all have in common? So you reckon a built Forged engine wont outlast a stock engine when driven hard ?? I'd put money on it. Manufacturer designed and built OEM engine with £M development costs behind it vs Engine massively modified by someone for much less? Of course, you have exceptions, but as a rule an OEM engine will always be more reliable than any boosted lump, built or not.

How on earth does that make any sense at all? Swapping one DE car for another?

That's a good point, ta

Best move I reckon, get the most out of it