adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I do hope someone can help in solving this problem which has been on-going for some 4 months. The car - 2004 model fitted with APS twin turbo, plenum and s/s exhaust; 400fwhp; up to August 36,000 miles of faultless, powerful performance. Car cut out going up a hill in Durham and took some 20 attempts to restart. Limped to the kerb, phoned breakdown, arrived 45 minutes later. Started car - no problem no fault codes. Drove 200 miles back to Dundee without a hitch. Drove around for another 2 weeks - no problem. Car cut out, probably died is a more accurate word! Into my local excellent garage and he got the diagnostic chap to the rescue. No fault codes. Running slightly lean was the verdict. Replaced maf sensor with known good unit - no difference, still "hunting" at idle. He parked it up and I collected the car - ran perfect for a week. Problem started again - no throttle response (intermittent), cutting-out, difficult to start, very rough idle. Back to the garage - recorded dreaded "random cylinder missfire" code. Replaced spark plugs - no improvement. He left the car and restarted it 2 hours later - no problem. I picked the car up, drove home, car cut out 3 times. Back to garage. Replaced fuel pump. Test drive - no problem. I drove the car home - no problem. Went for Sunday drive - car cut out at end of Tay Bridge. Restarted on 3rd attempt. Drove 6 miles home - no problem. So! Any thoughts or words of wisdom. I will happily take the car to any garage to solve the problem. As far as i can ascertain the missfire/cutting out/lack of throttle response is not weather or temperature dependant. The fault can just disappear or reappear at any time. Maf sensor, plugs and fuel pump have been eliminated. So what's left? Crankshaft sensor, camshaft sensor, O2 sensors, ECU? I would be grateful to take the car to or discuss the problem with absolutely anyone. I live in Broughty Ferry just east of Dundee. Any comments gratefully received . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I had a similar problem once. It was when the car was hot. One of the coil packs was dodgy but only when hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Power cut straight away, no dodgy running beforehand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Thanks for the replies. Dblock - intermittent fault whether car hot or cold. Ekona - car cut out when coasting up to halt on 1 or 2 occasions. No problems starting, and often no problems at all. Discussed possible faulty coils with mechanic but he was doubtful this is the problem. I just don't understand how it can run perfectly for a few days then be absolute nightmare then be fine again and yet nothing has been changed!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Sounds like an electrical issue to me, possibly either cutting all fuel or all spark. What ECU are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I have the oem ECU with a piggy-backed APS programmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 What garage do members local to Dundee take their cars to for repairs and tlc? Hopefully someone with knowledge as replacing bits is starting to get expensive. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What garage do members local to Dundee take their cars to for repairs and tlc? Hopefully someone with knowledge as replacing bits is starting to get expensive. Cheers! Maybe try Checkpoint in arbroath. But they couldnt get my steering wheel straight when they did the 4 wheel alignment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a set procedure for tracing a fault like this? Seems crazy given all this techno and fault codes in modern cars that it still seems to get down to "a feeling". Aah - how I long for the days of plugs, points, distributor and pump. When the modern motor screws up you really are screwed! By the way, I had a chat with the chap from Horsham Dev. - what a nice guy! It was him that suggested the crankshaft sensor, but without seeing and testing the car difficult to say. Sod's Law - if I drove it to Horsham (350miles) the car would be running perfect. Halfway up the M6 it would kick off again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a set procedure for tracing a fault like this? Seems crazy given all this techno and fault codes in modern cars that it still seems to get down to "a feeling". Aah - how I long for the days of plugs, points, distributor and pump. When the modern motor screws up you really are screwed! By the way, I had a chat with the chap from Horsham Dev. - what a nice guy! It was him that suggested the crankshaft sensor, but without seeing and testing the car difficult to say. Sod's Law - if I drove it to Horsham (350miles) the car would be running perfect. Halfway up the M6 it would kick off again! You must live real east of Dundee as its more like 450miles. I'd maybe try the cranksensor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a set procedure for tracing a fault like this? Seems crazy given all this techno and fault codes in modern cars that it still seems to get down to "a feeling". Aah - how I long for the days of plugs, points, distributor and pump. When the modern motor screws up you really are screwed! By the way, I had a chat with the chap from Horsham Dev. - what a nice guy! It was him that suggested the crankshaft sensor, but without seeing and testing the car difficult to say. Sod's Law - if I drove it to Horsham (350miles) the car would be running perfect. Halfway up the M6 it would kick off again! You must live real east of Dundee as its more like 450miles. I'd maybe try the cranksensor? Took a punt on the distance! I'd just like a 350Z expert to take a look at my poor wee car - the fun snow time will soon be here! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is there a set procedure for tracing a fault like this? Seems crazy given all this techno and fault codes in modern cars that it still seems to get down to "a feeling". Aah - how I long for the days of plugs, points, distributor and pump. When the modern motor screws up you really are screwed! By the way, I had a chat with the chap from Horsham Dev. - what a nice guy! It was him that suggested the crankshaft sensor, but without seeing and testing the car difficult to say. Sod's Law - if I drove it to Horsham (350miles) the car would be running perfect. Halfway up the M6 it would kick off again! You must live real east of Dundee as its more like 450miles. I'd maybe try the cranksensor? Took a punt on the distance! I'd just like a 350Z expert to take a look at my poor wee car - the fun snow time will soon be here! Cheers I know what its like when you cant just get it fixed. As you said as its intermittent its more annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Update on car running issues. I have now rep;aced plugs, fuel pump (new walboro very noticeable whine), crankshaft sensor. Have cleaned throttle body, maf sensor (temporary replacement unit made no difference), checked grounds. Sunday morning car would fire but not run; eventually (after 30 attempts!) got engine to run roughly by working throttle pedal but would die otherwise. Monday morning car started first time, warmed up, slowed to normal idle - revved up, back to normal idle. Car running perfect. Tuesday morning car started first time, warmed up drove it for approx. 10 minutes, 3-4 miles then engine cut out. Re-started, working throttle drove to next junction - cut out. Re-started, very rough then drove home working throttle all the time. Started 5 minutes later - runs perfect. So any ideas what to try next? No fault codes. Any thoughts on garage services in Scotland who would have a look. Two local Nissan dealers not interested as car fitted with APS twin turbo kit. Do I continue to replace parts - coils, camshaft sensors, O2 sensors? My local mechanic is at a loss as to the problem, as am I!! All help appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 OK Here I go foot in mouth probably wrong but I'm going with ....... Electrical ... APS ECU .............. Why cause thats what mine did when I had a problem (pre Haltech) To prove - remove piggy back ECU, I assume this is safe I've done it with all mine, disconnect battery undo the harness from the APS ECU then the APS ECU from the OEM ECU and connect the OEM plug to the OEM ECU - reconnect battery and start car - if it runs lumpy like it does when you're having problems (which is my guess) then I would think the APS is kicking in and out if it won't start at all without I'm probably barking up the wrong tree again, however as long as you don't fry the ECU it won't cost anything to try....??? Just a suggestion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubapics Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's nothing crazy like a leaky hose causing the inlet manifold to vent to atmosphere? This will kill an engine instantly. If the leak is small it could explain the idle problems and lack of power under load. When warming up, if the leak gets bigger it will suddenly just die. So leaking hoses, leaking inlet manifold etc? Probably not much help just trying to think of something not yet covered and also doesn't involve parts necessarily at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's nothing crazy like a leaky hose causing the inlet manifold to vent to atmosphere? This will kill an engine instantly. If the leak is small it could explain the idle problems and lack of power under load. When warming up, if the leak gets bigger it will suddenly just die. So leaking hoses, leaking inlet manifold etc? Probably not much help just trying to think of something not yet covered and also doesn't involve parts necessarily at this point. The mechanic and I have checked all induction and exhaust system for leaks without finding anything. No go I'm afraid. Many thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 OK Here I go foot in mouth probably wrong but I'm going with ....... Electrical ... APS ECU .............. Why cause thats what mine did when I had a problem (pre Haltech) To prove - remove piggy back ECU, I assume this is safe I've done it with all mine, disconnect battery undo the harness from the APS ECU then the APS ECU from the OEM ECU and connect the OEM plug to the OEM ECU - reconnect battery and start car - if it runs lumpy like it does when you're having problems (which is my guess) then I would think the APS is kicking in and out if it won't start at all without I'm probably barking up the wrong tree again, however as long as you don't fry the ECU it won't cost anything to try....??? Just a suggestion This sounds like the way I am thinking. Any chance we could have a chat? So much better than bloody typing! Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 OK Here I go foot in mouth probably wrong but I'm going with ....... Electrical ... APS ECU .............. Why cause thats what mine did when I had a problem (pre Haltech) To prove - remove piggy back ECU, I assume this is safe I've done it with all mine, disconnect battery undo the harness from the APS ECU then the APS ECU from the OEM ECU and connect the OEM plug to the OEM ECU - reconnect battery and start car - if it runs lumpy like it does when you're having problems (which is my guess) then I would think the APS is kicking in and out if it won't start at all without I'm probably barking up the wrong tree again, however as long as you don't fry the ECU it won't cost anything to try....??? Just a suggestion This sounds like the way I am thinking. Any chance we could have a chat? So much better than bloody typing! Cheers. PM On it's way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsclan Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 OK Here I go foot in mouth probably wrong but I'm going with ....... Electrical ... APS ECU .............. Why cause thats what mine did when I had a problem (pre Haltech) To prove - remove piggy back ECU, I assume this is safe I've done it with all mine, disconnect battery undo the harness from the APS ECU then the APS ECU from the OEM ECU and connect the OEM plug to the OEM ECU - reconnect battery and start car - if it runs lumpy like it does when you're having problems (which is my guess) then I would think the APS is kicking in and out if it won't start at all without I'm probably barking up the wrong tree again, however as long as you don't fry the ECU it won't cost anything to try....??? Just a suggestion This sounds like the way I am thinking. Any chance we could have a chat? So much better than bloody typing! Cheers. PM On it's way Many thanks for your time chatting tonight. I shall investigate further tomorrow. Hopefully a solution is imminent! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Good work Chris, well hopefully. Might need to call you soon too :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 i was going to say the ECU piggyback, but as Keysers already said it and helped you out i think you're on the right track now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Could it be a fuel contamination problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Could it be a fuel contamination problem? Hmm, I had something very similar to this, car cutting out and missing then running fine for a few days. In the end it turned out that somewhere along the line I had a tank full of petrol contaminated with fine particles of rust. This was a long time ago and not that uncommon back then (as was water in your petrol). I haven't heard of this happening for 30 odd years though as I'm pretty sure that fuel storage tanks are now lined with a non corrosive material, A lot the independent petrol stations back then just had mild steel tanks. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think Keyser is on the right track, and i would go a bit further and hazard a guess that the APS being a piggyback and used for the VQ will be intercepting an altering the lambda feedback thats sent to the ECU, i suspect that its this that screwing up the feedback signal to the ECU and causing your problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 either get the stock ECU remapped for it or run a standalone ECU, piggybacks are never the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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