rothers2901 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I dont know the whole in's and out's of the working of the internal combustion engine, but how the hell has the type of fuel used got any bearing on the bottom end going. Surely it's more to do with neglect of the oil supply to the working parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Haha, I must admit, from time to time I rag the sh*t out of the zed. That's what it's for, the rev limiter is there to be used - to protect the engine from danger-revs. Having said that, 90% of my mileage is pottering around the UK's fabulous motorway system with one eye on the MPG gauge, and driving to and from meetings (I work for a finance company and travel to visit various companies). Also, I do enjoy dropping a gear or two and sticking my foot down, but it's the clutch/gearbox that has to cope with that, not the bottom end. I ride an R1 and I'm currently using a Ducati multistrada 1200s when my car is waiting for R55LEE's magic hands on Saturday, and the engines of each bike behave completely differently. An inline 4 loves abuse, it almost asks for it, whereas the V-twin 'feels' more delicate, so I apply throttle/engine breaking differently. The zed seems to beg for big revs and dropping cogs, I do bean it every now and then, but I like to think it's done with at least a degree of compassion for the thing. I've been rebuilding bike engines since I was 10 and have ridden bikes for 21 years, so I do know how to look after an engine and know what can happen if you don't. It just shocks me that two engines have gone within a week. I can't help wondering if there's a local petrol station to blame for this, because a Japanese V6 should be bomb proof, not sh*t itself when running on 95 Octane unleaded. Rothers - if the top end goes (where that magic spark happens and directly linked to the fuel used) it can upset the bottom end, causing it to eat itself. I've seen little 2 stoke bike engines with a top end seizure damage the big end bearing, f**k the crank and turn itself inside out. That's a single cyliner, so with 6 the forces are much greater and the risk to the bottom end are increased. Saying that - my first thought was oil starvation - so I'm with you on your logic. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 get that petrol checked... do you know someone having a test kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothers2901 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Haha, Rothers - if the top end goes (where that magic spark happens and directly linked to the fuel used) it can upset the bottom end, causing it to eat itself. I've seen little 2 stoke bike engines with a top end seizure damage the big end bearing, f**k the crank and turn itself inside out. That's a single cyliner, so with 6 the forces are much greater and the risk to the bottom end are increased. Saying that - my first thought was oil starvation - so I'm with you on your logic. Stu Question answered thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Scary stuff, I must admit I hate putting normal unleaded in mine as she definitely feels different and twice I've had a misfire/power loss when accelerating on normal unleaded. Its always a last resource as tescos seems to run out quite a bit of the good stuff. Do you and your bro fill up at the same station? Perhaps the petrol quality is an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I've spoken to big bro and he hasn't used a particular petrol station, I do a lot of miles and normally fill up at motorway services, so it's a long shot. A guy at work suggested my ex tampered with both cars on my drive because she didn't know which is which! Amusing but unlikely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 ex stuck sugar in both of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 that's mad... you're avatar with knee down doesn't help me thinking that you must have been giving the car abit of stick from time to time If you look carefully that motorbike is practically vertical, its hardly leaning over at all! On my bike, I lean it over so far the exhaust is scraping the ground, so i dont have to hang off it at all - just stick knee out and there you go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It might be worth creating some form of sticky for new owners about correct fuels and regular oil checks, as I've bought 3 of these cars now and never been told to use super Having a sticky for the blatantly obvious does seem a tad overkill in my most humble opinion. Also, is your car one of the super limited editions that doesn't come with a 98 RON sticker inside the fuel cap? As much as I'm clearly taking the mick here, I do genuinely feel sorry for any car enthusiast who has an engine go pop on him as it must be one of the worst experiences you can possibly have and I'd be gutted. That said, there has to be a certain amount of common sense used when owning a car, and certainly a little bit more when owning a performance one you admittedly drive the ass off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Ekona - this is part of the fun of being a petrol head. You crash things, things break - it happens. I buy cars and bikes to use and enjoy, not to polish rabbitstew, the esses at Donington are particularly slow and tight - I wrote one of Ron Haslam's CBR600RRs off on that very corner. I find that loading the front end with my bodyweight and gunning it the throttle, particularly on a little 600, gets me through as quickly as possible. Scuffed engine cases and elbows on leathers prove how hard you lean, but you don't always have a photographer on hand do you? How's this? Or this? Or this? Some kids collect corgi cars and keep them in the box. Some kids play with them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 3 photos of you hanging off and all on different bikes Funny that my 350Z doesn't have the 98 sticker inside it's fuel cap... also funny that you CANNOT get that stuff over in Ireland, best bet is E10. (10% Ethanol mix). I don't believe for a second that Nissan Ireland took in a car that the country don't have petrol for. My current car with APS TT and Forged engine is TUNED for 95 so I'm happy enough now Maybe just get the cars tuned with Uprev for 95 and be done with it. take it back on the lean angle on the avatar pic, my misstake should know better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 take it back on the lean angle on the avatar pic, my misstake should know better Haha. It's common in the biking community - everyone is better than everyone else. I've been doing it for a few years, finally got to ride the Norton Commando (UK- Non-Interstate) when I was 18. What can i say, my Dad brought me up right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 +1 I run super unleaded 95% of the time and never fill completely with unleaded when I have to buy it, having said that spursmaddave is approaching 100k and I think he uses regular most of the time but I'm sure he'll be along soon to confirm or deny As far as I recall I think the handbook recommends 98 octane. Can running unleaded really do this? It's a bit scary if it can I hope you both get sorted ASAP Dave is apparently on 98K!! I'm hoping all these stories of engines going bang isnt down to running normal unleaded as theres a lot of people out there that do. I assume you both checked and topped up the oil regularly? I use Sainsbury's Super which I understand it 97 ron or thereabouts never used a single drop of BP ultimate or suchlike.... Never had any issues and it certainly didn't stop my old girl getting sone good results at Abbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 just as an FYI I used to track on my bike, hoping to get together with a mate and do full tracking next year with a decent pure trackbike. Using the bike for commuting now so don't want to bin it, and you do on track... in the biking community it's not IF you'll bin it... it's WHEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Was it Carl Fogarty that said ' if you don't crash, you're not trying hard enough'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Was it Carl Fogarty that said ' if you don't crash, you're not trying hard enough'? Something that Haga used to practice quite often in his WSB days, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 +1 I run super unleaded 95% of the time and never fill completely with unleaded when I have to buy it, having said that spursmaddave is approaching 100k and I think he uses regular most of the time but I'm sure he'll be along soon to confirm or deny As far as I recall I think the handbook recommends 98 octane. Can running unleaded really do this? It's a bit scary if it can I hope you both get sorted ASAP Dave is apparently on 98K!! I'm hoping all these stories of engines going bang isnt down to running normal unleaded as theres a lot of people out there that do. I assume you both checked and topped up the oil regularly? I use Sainsbury's Super which I understand it 97 ron or thereabouts never used a single drop of BP ultimate or suchlike.... Never had any issues and it certainly didn't stop my old girl getting sone good results at Abbey sainsbury's super is bp ultimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Was it Carl Fogarty that said ' if you don't crash, you're not trying hard enough'? Thats very true. Before.... After... And my mate still let me try his 200mile old Gixer out... Haha. It's common in the biking community - everyone is better than everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 My brother told me that Mark at Abbey mentioned a sensor/detector that limits the car when lower octane fuel is detected. Apparently this works up to 4500 revs or so and then reverts to standard. Both cars blew with revs around the 6000 mark, any more info on this would be good, particularly for you fortunate soles with cars that are running. I was saying the car's only have knock control up to 4800rpm as a stock after this RPM the car doesnt have knock control. This is all in the stock ECU. If the car see's heavy knock readings it will switch to the high detonation map which has around 5 degree's timing removed. The car that we have here that has failed hasnt had a bottom end failure from what we can see , it has had piston failure. The car had a full service prior to dyno work. 1st pull on the dyno I noticed some wrong spoke to Scott saying I think the car is running 95 Octane fuel , he spoke to the customer that confirmed it was running on 95 octane fuel. I have a feeling that the usage of 95 octane fuel may have caused weakening of the piston's maybe due to continual detonation over a long period. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 sainsbury's super is bp ultimate not true, I have heard that both supermarket plus fuels are mixed differently to BP or shell. The additives are literally added in the tanker rather than at the refinery so can be a bit hit and miss and not as well made with less additives. Sainsburys is sourced from BP but that doesnt make it the same as BP ultimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 sainsbury's super is bp ultimate not sure thats's true, I have heard that both supermarket plus fuels are mixed differently to BP or shell. The additives are literally added in the tanker rather than at the refinery so can be a bit hit and miss and not as well made. Sainsburys is sourced from BP but that doesnt make it the same as BP ultimate. That is correct Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I googled a bit and found this as I wanted to understand a bit more than I currently do, maybe others will find it interesting too, sorry if it's a bit nerdy but I thought it was worth the read http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/ ... asics.html My brother told me that Mark at Abbey mentioned a sensor/detector that limits the car when lower octane fuel is detected. Apparently this works up to 4500 revs or so and then reverts to standard. Both cars blew with revs around the 6000 mark, any more info on this would be good, particularly for you fortunate soles with cars that are running. I was saying the car's only have knock control up to 4800rpm as a stock after this RPM the car doesnt have knock control. This is all in the stock ECU. If the car see's heavy knock readings it will switch to the high detonation map which has around 5 degree's timing removed. The car that we have here that has failed hasnt had a bottom end failure from what we can see , it has had piston failure. The car had a full service prior to dyno work. 1st pull on the dyno I noticed some wrong spoke to Scott saying I think the car is running 95 Octane fuel , he spoke to the customer that confirmed it was running on 95 octane fuel. I have a feeling that the usage of 95 octane fuel may have caused weakening of the piston's maybe due to continual detonation over a long period. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Graham, that reads pretty good (speed read), seems to answer all the questions people will ask. Will spend sometime and properly read the whole lot thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Graham, that reads pretty good (speed read), seems to answer all the questions people will ask. Will spend sometime and properly read the whole lot thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 sainsbury's super is bp ultimate not true, I have heard that both supermarket plus fuels are mixed differently to BP or shell. The additives are literally added in the tanker rather than at the refinery so can be a bit hit and miss and not as well made with less additives. Sainsburys is sourced from BP but that doesnt make it the same as BP ultimate. Learn something new everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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