Any 'bobbies' to confirm something???

[Stew]

Ok,

 

Was at tescos grabbing something and was approached by a police officer in a focus estate. The conversation went like this.

 

Policedude 'You're numberplate is illeagal'

Me 'OK, officer'

'Yeah, the dots are illeagal and the plate is too small'

'I admit the dots are are risky but the plate is not too small'

'It is'

'It's not, it has the correct size border all around it and correct spacing'

'No, it's too short it has to be (gestures size of standard plate) this big, oh I wasn't going to give you a ticket but I am now'

 

(Me thinking go ahead, you are alone so you can do f all about it in Scotland)

 

'Well I must have misinterpreted the guidelines given to me by the traffic police when I was stopped for accidentally running the car with a show plate on it, they were the DVLA guidelines that the traffic police carry'

'The plate is illeagal, what's your name?'

Blah blah

cop - 'You work at xxx'

Me 'Yes, how do you know that?' Knowing it's on the donut run....

'It's my job to know!' woooooo awesome!

 

 

Anyway, my new boss was in the car as she's training with me and she said 'He picked the wrong guy to mess with, everyone here says you're the man that knows stuff about cars'

 

 

 

Anyway, want to check if I'm right. Maybe I should have rolled over but he wasn't a traffic cop so I was willing to bet I was correct.

 

Did a search

http://www.theplatemarket.com/display_o ... umbers.php

 

I admit I'm breaking this rule - Don't misrepresent letters / numbers using screws or fixings

 

But does it say anywhere that a plate has to be 'standard size'??? I have a 5 character plate by the way.

 

 

This could be an epic fail on my part but I don't believe I'm breaking any law on the length of my plate. All margins, sizes and spacing is correct - just the fixing covers are incorrect.

 

 

Could anyone confirm?

[chrisjones6699]

I can't help Stew but I just have to say.... What a tw@t!! You would think that there's more important things for the police to be dealing with than number plates!?

[Husky]

makes me think of these glarious moments

 

 

WARNING: OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE IN THE FIRST CLIP

[Stew]

Just for the record, I have no complaint against the officer, he's doing his job. I have no issue with the police and don't want to turn this into a police bashing thread.

 

 

Oh, he was going to 'confiscate your plate and see what the courts say about it' which my reply was a rather cheeky 'I have no issue with that.'

 

I'd just like to know if I have epic win or epic fail.

[Husky]

no no im not police bashing, just gets very irritating i suppose around here where there are so many plastic police it gets tiresome being accused of something new every month when all we want to do is commute to work

[Gizmo-R]

I'm guessing you have chopped down number plates width-wise and I am sure there is nothing wrong with the providing the letters and spacing are the same as if it was on a standard plate

[Stew]

I checked on craigsplates this morning (where I got it) and under the 'legal plates' is a 5 character plate with the correct dimensions to keep the margins legal. This is what I have.

[cmck13]

Most of the legality of a number plate is the requirement that the letters and numbers have to be of a certain size and spacing.Quite rightly as you say you are not allowed to misrepresent a letter or number so that it looks like something else.

It also has to be easy and clear to read, therefore if the lettering is the correct size obviously the size of the plate has to be big enough to accept the lettering on it,however as you have rightly said it does not go into the actual size of the number plate.

There is one requirement and the extract below clearly is a British Standard that has to apply to the design of the plate, there is no mention again about the size. I hope this helps, by the way did you have a witness to this conversation because if this gets naughty for you it would be of great help.

 

Keep us posted

 

THE BRITISH STANDARD BS AU 145d

 

The British Standard sets out the physical characteristics on the number plate. This includes:

 

* Visibility

* Strength

* Reflectivity

 

The British Standard also requires that a number plate must be marked with the following information: -

 

* The British Standard Number (currently BS AU 145d)

* The name, trade mark, or other means of identification of the manufacturer or

component supplier. (The company who actually make the number plate.)

* The name and postcode of the supplying outlet. (The 'supplying outlet' is taken to

mean a company whose business consists wholly or partly of selling number

plates.)

* A non-reflective border and the Euro-symbol with the national identification

letters are optional additions.

* There shall be no other markings or material contained on the number plate.

 

Further information about the British Standards requirements can be obtained at BSI Group

[Neilp]

Yep i got similar for chopped regi's. Ur plate has to have the british standard visible on it. Even that, the British standard is a guideline not a regulation. So you wouldn't be prosecuted under that but something else that they can bring up.

[MacW]

You got the ticket because it's quick and profitable.

 

If you're sure you're right and the ticket is for the size as well as the misrep of the lettering then fight it. They only take these to court if they know they can win but they issue the tickets under pretty much any circumstances as most people find it less hassle to pay than to contest.

 

If you read the PistonHeads forums you'll find 3 or 4 of these cropping up everyday.

[Chesterfield]

Here you go Stew:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Pe ... /DG_181503

 

As long as the spacing, character stroke and margins are correct, then its fine. A five character plate can be smaller in terms of width than a standard plate for 7 characters. The height will of course be the same, but if the officer thinks that all plates must be the same width, then he is very much mistaken.

 

I'd direct him down to the nearest land rover dealership and ask him to look at the rear plates on the forecourt. That should keep him in tickets for a month or so.

 

They can and probably will make the ticket stand on the grounds of the dots/screws, so not worth arguing imho. The fact still stands you are correct on the width issue though.

[MacW]

Here you go Stew:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Pe ... /DG_181503

 

As long as the spacing, character stroke and margins are correct, then its fine. A five character plate can be smaller in terms of width than a standard plate for 7 characters. The height will of course be the same, but if the officer thinks that all plates must be the same width, then he is very much mistaken.

 

I'd direct him down to the nearest land rover dealership and ask him to look at the rear plates on the forecourt. That should keep him in tickets for a month or so.

 

They can and probably will make the ticket stand on the grounds of the dots/screws, so not worth arguing imho. The fact still stands you are correct on the width issue though.

 

Sorry, couldn't disagree with this more. If you have a ticket and are being charged for something that is legal then fight it everytime.

 

Make it clear you hold your hands up for the misrep but point them in the direction of the rules posted above. For the cost of a stamp and the 15 minutes to write the letter it's hardly too much effort.

[Chesterfield]

But his plate is misrepresented. Just because the copper is wrong on the width issue does not mean that the ticket for a "non standard number plate" will be dismissed. Indeed it is non standard, just for one of the reasons mentioned rather than both.

 

Its like saying, no officer I only hit him with a bat, not a bat and a brick, so I intend to fight the assualt charge. It simply wont fly and you are likely to have either the fine increased or the possibility of the registration mark being withdrawn alltogether.

 

Id take the £30 or whatever it is on the chin, get the screws removed, and wait to be done again for just the smaller plate. Then you can fight it all you like knowing that the copper will be embarrassed at the end of it.

 

It all depend on what the ticket is for. If on the ticket it ONLY says "non standard size", then fight it (but get the screws off first). If it also includes any statement about it being misrepresented, then the ticket will stand.

[MacW]

Depends on the wording of the ticket.

 

If it specifies the width as being an issue then fight it, if it's vague and only mentions the legal area under which it is given then you're right and it's not worth doing.

 

Forgive me, it's Monday morning and I'm always combative until I've had my minimum caffeine intake.

[Chesterfield]

Having had a few of these tickets over the years, I have come to consider them a running cost of having a private plate. Or at least one that has some "spacing" issues.

 

What annoys me is that the DVLA price these plates knowing full well what they spell when spaced incorrectly or altered slightly, then they want to see fines dished out when you do just what they are encouraging bay pricing them as they do anyway.

 

Examples from the DVLA's last auction would be:

 

A110 YDS - mis spaced and its A1 10YDS (Loyds). £3400

ANG 13D - mis spaced ANG13 D (Angie) - £1600

 

They know full well these plates are priced in this manner as they can spell words when mis spaced, yet fine you when you do just that. Thats the DVLA promoting or glorifying crime imho, but its a money spinner so nothing will change...

[Stew]

Just to clarify that I didn't get a ticket. The policeman was alone and scots law does not allow a police officer to act alone. All he did was took my details. I'm sure he'll be gunning for me. If I got a fine or change notification then I'd pay it as I admit the number is dodgy on the grounds stated above. I just couldn't hack a bobby on the beat (I assume without any specialist traffic training) spouting absolute rubbish about legislation that does not exist. This to me is the way to fast track a hatred of the police into a person or a group of people.

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

I've had dealings with Police before and I can honestly say most of them are ok decent human beings as long as you are not being a total d1ck, but there are a select bunch that have nothing better to do than have a power trip and just be complete bell ends.

 

You sir have been unfortunate enough to meet one of the Bell End brigade.

[ATTAK Z]

This has been discussed before both here and on Pistonheads ........... I am of the opinion that only a full sized plate is legal but cannot find the letter of the law that confirms that ...... all I can find is that the spacing of and border around a standard font needs to be as stated .......... as you quite rightly state

 

Also my opinion .... very few police know the letter of the law either on this topic although they are becoming more aware as their superiors send them out on specific missions to check certain aspects of the law relating to vehicles ......... as you, I am frightened they'll try and ticket you for something else if you "flout the law" with a pretty plate so I mine's standard with the BS au 145 (????????) printed on proving that it's within the law

[maz0]

Just to clarify that I didn't get a ticket. The policeman was alone and scots law does not allow a police officer to act alone. All he did was took my details. I'm sure he'll be gunning for me. If I got a fine or change notification then I'd pay it as I admit the number is dodgy on the grounds stated above. I just couldn't hack a bobby on the beat (I assume without any specialist traffic training) spouting absolute rubbish about legislation that does not exist. This to me is the way to fast track a hatred of the police into a person or a group of people.

 

Yeah I was waiting for you to clarify that. He had no corroboration so no ticket. On that note, he's just messing you about

[Stew]

This has been discussed before both here and on Pistonheads ........... I am of the opinion that only a full sized plate is legal but cannot find the letter of the law that confirms that ...... all I can find is that the spacing of and border around a standard font needs to be as stated .......... as you quite rightly state

 

 

Exactly, you only find the borders and spacing because this is the legal requirement not the physical size of the backing of the plate.

 

http://www.craigsplates.com/order/order.php

 

If you use this site to buy a plate (or just test it out) you can select the legal plates and still get the 'cut down' plate that is legal for the number of characters you have. This is a legal plate that you have to send your documents off for so it is legit.

 

 

There were plates out a while ago that were basically letters with the legal borders cut round them. So the plate wasn't square. These (although hideous) were sold as legal as the margins cut were the legal one.

[geoff-r]

Coppers eh, no wonder the police force is getting the cut with time wasting like this.

[Sarnie]

I am of the opinion that only a full sized plate is legal but cannot find the letter of the law that confirms that ......

 

 

+1

 

Stew, I've always thought your plate was illegal to be honest, and thats based on the size the plate, not the spacing etc.

[Stew]

So something that has become apparent with this thread is that the wording of the law is perhaps unclear.....

 

Get you missus to find out Liam!

 

 

Or perhaps one of the police people on the board would like to confirm either in the thread or via PM.

 

As I say I was given the guidelines and made sure they were followed, you can buy legal cut down plates from plate manufacturers but it appears that even the regular police don't know the legalities.....

 

 

 

 

Number plates fitted before 1st September 2001

 

If you fitted a number plate before 1st September 2001, they must meet the dimensions in one of the two groups below:

 

Character height - 89 mm The height of the letters and numbers

 

Character width (except the figure 1 or letter I) - 64 mm The width of each character, 1 and I (on irish plates) are thinner but will be in proportion using the standard letter set

 

Character stroke - 16 mm I think this is the 'thickness' of the black in the letters?

 

Space between characters -13 mm space between each character on the plate except the extra space between the numbers and the letters

 

Space between groups - 38 mm The space between the number and letters on the plate

 

Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) - 13 mm This is the one that I think the policeman has got wrong. My interpretation is that a margin of 13mm must be applied on top and bottom of all characters and that each end (before first character and after last character) must also have a 13mm margin.

 

Space between vertical lines - 19 mm I think this is the space needed if you run an import type plate or a motorcycle plate.

 

 

 

 

These apply to 'Group 1' of the pre 2001 plates. My car plate is an 'S' so the pre 2001 rules will apply but which group I'm not sure.... I conform to both anyway!

Nowhere in the rules does it give a minimum dimension of the actual plate which is what the police officer and myself disagreed on.

 

 

If you interpret the rules differently then please share your views to give me a better understanding.

[Sarnie]

Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) - 13 mm This is the one that I think the policeman has got wrong. My interpretation is that a margin of 13mm must be applied on top and bottom of all characters and that each end (before first character and after last character) must also have a 13mm margin.

 

I think your wrong mate.

 

It may be 13mm, but 13mm to what? The border? The edge of the plate?

 

I think your confusing what the minimum spacing around the letters should be with what the actual dimensions of the whole plate should be........it may be a minimum of 13mm around the top, bottom, left and right of your letters but that doesn't then equate to the size of the plate you can use................

[ATTAK Z]

.................... Nowhere in the rules does it give a minimum dimension of the actual plate .....................................

+1 but

 

 

 

as said earlier ....... if an authority ( be it the police or whoever) thinks you're worthy of stopping because of your plate, and you argue your case, then he/she/it'll try as hard as possible to find something to pull you on; be it a breath test, tinted windows, illegal load, no seat belts, worn tyres, poor bone structure, ................... etc. ......... best to conform .....

 

 

 

 

what's the problem ?