The 2010 Formula 1 Chat Thread.

[Zazur]

I don't think Monaco will ever be taken off the calender... too many £££££ for Bernie !!!

 

Too many deals with sponsors are done at this race so it would be very unlikely to disapear from the calender and the won the drivers want to win.

 

Did you guys notice all the empty seats (most of them were the blue ones visable in the crowd), one stand was over half empty the worst attendance figures for Monaco in the last 15 years and even the port was not packed only a couple of boats tied down in the centre of the port and even some hotels had rooms available.

 

Sign of the times.

 

Need rain at every race for some exiting racing

[Beavis]

Didn't expect Schumi to pass in ther last corner , and neither did Alonso

 

But now demoted to 12th. Damon Hill gets his revenge for Australia 94

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 685542.stm

 

Appeal lodged - having seen Brawn's evidence of the green flag being shown after the white line and before Schuey crossed it, behind Alonso, it seems to me that the rule applied only applies if the safety car carries on past the chequered flag and yellow flags are being shown/waved.

 

I think Schuey might still get another another over on Damon

 

I hope they do overturn it as it seems to be completely within the rules and more importantly those sort of things are what the sport needs, as in more excitement.

 

I also hope the appeal is successful because I get so tired of Ferrari getting things their own way all the time so it would be nice to see them get two fingers once in a while. Not to mention the fact that the most irritating sportsman on the planet also drives for them so it would be even nicer to see him told where to go for being completely out smarted. Rant over!

 

 

Appeal withdrawn

 

http://www.f1technical.net/news/14841?s ... 3ee64223b8

[Ebized]

Not so black and white then

 

Here is the Mercedes statement in full: "On the final lap of the 2010 Monaco Grand Prix, MERCEDES GP PETRONAS instructed our drivers, Michael Schumacher and Nico Rosberg, to race from safety car line one until the finish line as permitted under articles 40.7 and 40.11.

 

MERCEDES GP PETRONAS were fully aware of article 40.13 which states that no overtaking is permitted if the race finishes under safety car conditions. However we believed that the combination of the race control messages 'Safety Car in this lap' and 'Track Clear' and the green flags and lights shown by the marshals after safety car line one indicated that the race was not finishing under the safety car and all drivers were free to race.

 

This opinion appears to have been shared by the majority of the teams with cars in the top ten positions who also gave their drivers instructions to race to the finish line.

 

It was clear from our discussions with the stewards after the race that they understood the reasons for our interpretation and acknowledged that this was a new and previously untested situation but ultimately disagreed with our interpretation.

 

MERCEDES GP PETRONAS would like to emphasise that we fully support the inclusion of past drivers on the stewards panel and are completely satisfied that the Monaco Grand Prix stewards acted professionally, impartially and properly in this matter.

 

The FIA has agreed to include article 40.13 on the agenda of the next Sporting Working Group for discussion and to consider the scale of post race penalties. We believe that the 20 second penalty imposed on Michael to be disproportionate in the circumstances.

 

Whilst we cannot be happy with the outcome, we are pleased that the FIA has recognised the reasons for our interpretation. Therefore in the best interests of the sport, MERCEDES GP PETRONAS will not be submitting an appeal."

[rich5259]

I guess someone told them that the FIA (Ferarri International Assistance) wouldn't help - as usual. Seems most of the other teams were of the same opinion as Mercedes that it was "Race on!"

[Zazur]

Looks like the green waving flag and green flashing light does not mean what everyone thought it meant

 

The green flag

"The solid green flag is usually displayed by the starter to indicate the start of a session. During a session, it is displayed at the end of a caution period or a temporary delay to indicate that the session is restarting.

 

If the session is not under caution or delayed, it is said to be under green-flag conditions, though the flag is not actually displayed.

 

A green flag at the entrance to the pits may indicate that the pits are open."

 

 

Why Schumacher got a penalty

 

Here’s the stewards’ explanation for Schumacher’s penalty:

 

The overtaking manoeuvre was in breach of Article 40.13 of the 2010 F1 Sporting Regulations, the Stewards decided to impose a drive through penalty but, as it occurred during the last five laps, 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of car Nr 3.

 

And here’s the relevant part of the rules:

 

40.13: If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

 

The same rule was in effect last year (article 40.14 in the 2009 F1 Sporting Regulations).

 

What has changed since then is the creation of a safety car line – the point after which drivers may overtake when the race is re-started. Mercedes believed the race was being restarted at the safety car line.

 

How Mercedes got it wrong

Here’s Ross Brawn’s explanation for why Schumacher continued racing:

 

With regard to the penalty given to Michael, we believed that the track had gone green and the race was not finishing under a safety car when article 40.13 clearly would have applied.

 

The reason for the safety car had been removed, the FIA had announced ‘Safety Car in this lap’ early on lap 78 and the track had been declared clear by race control. This was further endorsed when the marshals showed green flags and lights after safety car line one. On previous occasions when it has been necessary to complete a race under a safety car, full course yellows are maintained, as in Melbourne 2009.

 

On the last lap, we therefore advised our drivers that they should race to the line and Michael made his move on Fernando for sixth place. We have appealed the decision of the stewards.

Ross Brawn

 

Brawn’s reasoning is persuasive but if his interpretation of the rules were correct we would have the strange situation where drivers were allowed to race from the safety car line to the finishing line. That scenario seems to be what article 40.13 was written to prevent.

 

It’s hardly surprising other teams were of the opinion that it would not be allowed. McLaren quite clearly told Lewis Hamilton:

 

Lewis this is the last lap of the race we’ll be finishing behind the safety car. No overtaking.

McLaren team radio

 

Hamilton saw Schumacher passing Alonso in his mirrors and registered his surprise:

 

I thought you said we couldn’t pass after safety car? Michael passed Fernando.

Lewis Hamilton

 

If cars are not supposed to be racing at this point one might reasonably ask why green flags were being waved. The regulations say:

 

As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

 

However the green flags visible when Schumacher passed Alonso were before the finishing line. This makes Mercedes’ confusion rather more understandable.

 

The penalty

The rules are clear when it comes to what sort of penalty the stewards can give:

 

16.3: The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:

a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;

A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds

and then re-join the race.

c) A drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.

 

However, should either of the penalties under a) and above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of .

 

Having found Schumacher at fault, they couldn’t let him go unpunished. But, as with Lewis Hamilton at Spa in 2008, the time penalty is too harsh as it drops him behind people he wouldn’t have been behind if he hadn’t made the move.

 

Simply putting Schumacher back behind Alonso would have been a fair penalty, but the rules did not allow the stewards to do this.

[DoogyRev]

I bet Damon Hill went to bed with a big fat cheesy grin

[Zazur]

The blame game

 

 

Schumacher’s penalty was excessive but it’s not the stewards who are at fault. Poorly-written rules are to blame.

 

The use of green flags made it unclear whether overtaking was allowed at the corner where Schumacher passed Alonso. It’s not hard to see how Mercedes could have thought the race was restarting.

 

And tight rules on penalties gave the stewards no option to give Schumacher a suitably mild penalty – such as docking him one position in the finishing order – for an infraction that was borne not out of malice but a misunderstanding.

 

A lot of comments have been made here criticising Damon Hill for the decision. Hill, a rival of Schumacher’s for many years, was serving as the drivers’ representative to the stewards.

 

It should be remembered that the decision to penalise Schumacher will not have been taken by Hill on his own. The other three stewards were Jose Abed, Paul Gutjahr and Christian Calmes.

 

Hill’s role this weekend was public knowledge and no-one he might conceivably have had prejudicial opinions for or against raised an objection. In an interview with the BBC before the race Hill freely acknowledged his former rivalry with Schumacher and said he would not allow it to sway his judgement.

 

Hill is too obvious and too easy a scapegoat. The rules are at fault, and not for the first time.

 

Like the Hamilton-Trulli incident at Melbourne last year, and Hamilton being stripped of his win at Spa in 2008, clearer rules could have prevented all these controversies.

[DoogyRev]

I see Pirelli will now be the new Tyre supplier for 2011

[DoogyRev]

Turkish Practice is on if anyone is bored in the office

[ATTAK Z]

So can Lewis do it today ?

[DoogyRev]

I hope so, or Jenson. Its going to be difficult to catch the red bulls round turn 8 as they are the only ones who say they can go round it flat out

 

Looks like it could be a good race though

[Beavis]

So can Lewis do it today ?

 

 

Hope so.

[ATTAK Z]

I'm still rooting for Nico ........ not that I expect him to do it this year ..... but mark my words ... he will be up there with the top boys

[Beavis]

The best bit of the weekend so far was Vettels smacked arse face during the pole press conference yesterday

[ATTAK Z]

you still moderating Dave ?

[DoogyRev]

The best bit of the weekend so far was Vettels smacked arse face during the pole press conference yesterday

[ATTAK Z]

So can Lewis do it today ?

 

 

Hope so.

Your wish is realised Well done Lewis

[rich5259]

excellent drive by Vettel - right into his team mate

[Ruddles]

He certainly wasn't willing to admit blame, however Webber was right on the blame button in the interview at the end ! haha

[Vik54]

Lewis - nice one

[Ebized]

Do you reckon the fuel warnings to Lewis and Jenson was just an excuse so they would cool it and not repeat Seb's balls-up

[rich5259]

Do you reckon the fuel warnings to Lewis and Jenson was just an excuse so they would cool it and not repeat Seb's balls-up

 

If it was, it didn't work

[Daryl]

Well what a fantastic race. Despite what happened with the Red Bulls,it was a really exciting race. The hard work was done,we had the 1-2 in the bag,but maybe ego's got in the way. Thats what happens when you get 2 drivers not willing to concede,and just wanting to win. We saw it last year in Australia with Seb taking on Kubica when he had no chance. I just hope it dont cost us the championship!

[Beavis]

And now the truth comes out why Lewis was not so happy after winning.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 728377.stm

[MrLizard]

thats quite interesting, looking forward to canada, lets hope lewis remembers what red means in the pits