Chernobyl

[Adrian@TORQEN]

Haven't read the whole topic and only watched the first 2 episodes.

 

I remember being in school at the time and being told to stay inside, while they were giving us iodine pills. Devastating effects in Romania too, not very far from Chernobyl.  

[TT350]

Just read that the series has beaten game of thrones in ratings on IMDB. 9.5.

[Ekona]

Probably because of review bombing after S8 of GoT     

[Ekona]

But that doesn't detract from how awesome this programme actually is.

[TT350]

I am enjoying it.

 

Apart from one thing. They obviously researched it thoroughly but, in one episode Ulana says that if the core melted through to the water tanks below and they were full of water, it would result in a 4 megaton thermonuclear explosion. They don't just happen. You have to have a very particular set of circumstances for a nuclear explosion, let alone a thermonuclear explosion. They'd never just happen as a byproduct. Can you imagine that, if thermonuclear explosions were a possibility simply by having all the elements in place? Power plants would have to be so well defended from air strikes and also built many miles away from any significant populations. 

 

But, as it is, because you can't detonate a nuclear reactor, the only dangers from a powerplant is a leak of radiation and an enemy getting their hands on weapons grade enriched uranium.

 

Episode 3 was a bit grim! Those poor liquidators. I personally think they should have promised all of them a quick, painless death and to completely take care of their family, for life. The whole thing was scandalous. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ekona]

9 hours ago, TT350 said:

I am enjoying it.

 

Apart from one thing. They obviously researched it thoroughly but, in one episode Ulana says that if the core melted through to the water tanks below and they were full of water, it would result in a 4 megaton thermonuclear explosion. They don't just happen. You have to have a very particular set of circumstances for a nuclear explosion, let alone a thermonuclear explosion. They'd never just happen as a byproduct. Can you imagine that, if thermonuclear explosions were a possibility simply by having all the elements in place? Power plants would have to be so well defended from air strikes and also built many miles away from any significant populations. 

 

Was that not the point though? The very design of the RBMK reactors made such a thing possible. I need to go back and re-read the last book I read on it I think, I'll have to find out what is was called and let you know, it'd be right up your street mate.

[Impressed]

Binge watching this now. Interesting how the fear of superiors makes you blind to what is right in front of you.

If anyone wants to see this storey but are not willing to invest 4 hours Adrian Edmundson was in a drama / documentary some years ago that was also very good. YouTube below.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0775665/

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Impressed

[TT350]

11 hours ago, Ekona said:

Was that not the point though? The very design of the RBMK reactors made such a thing possible. I need to go back and re-read the last book I read on it I think, I'll have to find out what is was called and let you know, it'd be right up your street mate.

 

To my knowledge I don't think there's a set of circumstances that would result in a thermonuclear explosion. But I'd be interested to learn how, if it was possible. 

 

I think the RBMK reactors design faults lead to "hot spots" in the core and they couldn't be detected and there would be a huge build up of heat and water would boil dry. In the heat exchanger of a reactor, the water is under high pressure to stop it boiling. But that failed in Chernobyl reactor 4 and resulted in the huge steam explosion. 

 

Also, when you aren't using a moderator to slow neutron flux, it's much harder for the atoms to collide with another. I think in a bomb they use various materials to bounce neutrons inwards, improving the chances and rate of fission. Means you can use a smaller amount of uranium or plutonium. I think some use depleted uranium as a neutron blocker. 

 

It's just, I can't see how all those very specific set of events would happen by accident. 

 

Thorium reactors and salt reactors are the future. Salt reactors are so much safer and greener than traditional nuclear power. Much less fuel needed. I need to read up more on thorium. India have thorium reactors. Or A reactor. Also, India is where most of the worlds thorium is. So I don't think any countries could be bothered trying to work out a deal with India to get access. 

 

Also, I'm not sure but, I think thorium reactors don't produce weapons grade uranium or plutonium as a byproduct. Perhaps that's another reason why the main superpowers aren't overly interested in salt or thorium reactors. 

 

Either way, nuclear power is much safer today.

 

I sure can waffle.

 

Let me know when you remember the name of that book.

 

 

 

 

 

[Silverthorn]

Having worked within nuclear for multiple years now, worked at Berkeley and had tours of Heysham & HPC I must say its hugely interesting to see it all in person. You really can't appreciate the scale of it all until you really see it for yourself!

 

Nuclear power is truly amazing but it can certainly be very scary when something goes wrong. Thankfully, as you said @TT350, nuclear power is certainly much safer nowadays. 

 

 

[TT350]

20 minutes ago, Silverthorn said:

Having worked within nuclear for multiple years now, worked at Berkeley and had tours of Heysham & HPC I must say its hugely interesting to see it all in person. You really can't appreciate the scale of it all until you really see it for yourself!

 

Nuclear power is truly amazing but it can certainly be very scary when something goes wrong. Thankfully, as you said @TT350, nuclear power is certainly much safer nowadays. 

 

 

 

That's awesome. What field are you in? I went to Heysham a couple of years ago with my university. Picture this;

 

All the men in my class were devout, secular Muslims. So, we rock up to the security, me sweating bullets and the other lads all talking amongst themselves in Urdu. Lol. 

 

Well, the memory is much funnier than I make it sound. I was praying "no one say/shout Allahu Akbar!!". Anyway, all was well.

 

Would you be interested in going to Chernobyl,  Silverthorn?

 

I think Dan is interested, I'm definitely interested, 

[TT350]

 

[TT350]

On 23/05/2019 at 13:38, Adrian@TORQEN said:

Haven't read the whole topic and only watched the first 2 episodes.

 

I remember being in school at the time and being told to stay inside, while they were giving us iodine pills. Devastating effects in Romania too, not very far from Chernobyl.  

 

I'm sure I saw your old Nismo Z up here the other day! 

[TT350]

 

[Silverthorn]

On 26/05/2019 at 23:33, TT350 said:

 

That's awesome. What field are you in?

 

I work predominantly in mechanical design. I've spent most of my time working on nuclear related MoD projects and have just recently moved over to HPC working on the design team over there. 

 

I've spoken to a few people at work who've made the trip to Chernobyl and they all say it's unbelievable in person. You expect the devastation around the reactor itself, it's the state of the exclusion zone that really sets you back.

[TT350]

Just confirmed what I already thought. There wouldn't and couldn't have been a thermonuclear explosion. The producers deliberately added it to the plot to exaggerate the sense of immediate danger. Article written today:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/chernobyl-hbo-whats-true-myths-2019-5

 

 

[TT350]

15 hours ago, Silverthorn said:

 

I work predominantly in mechanical design. I've spent most of my time working on nuclear related MoD projects and have just recently moved over to HPC working on the design team over there. 

 

I've spoken to a few people at work who've made the trip to Chernobyl and they all say it's unbelievable in person. You expect the devastation around the reactor itself, it's the state of the exclusion zone that really sets you back.

 

Can you talk about it, or is what you were doing classified? I'd be interested in learning about anything you could elaborate on.

 

Are you tempted by Chernobyl trip?

[Silverthorn]

21 hours ago, TT350 said:

 

Can you talk about it, or is what you were doing classified? I'd be interested in learning about anything you could elaborate on.

 

Are you tempted by Chernobyl trip?

 The vast majority of it is Official Sensitive unfortunately. Had to pretty much sign my life away at the start of the project 

 

Likewise all of the Hinkley work is classified purely because of the commercial nature of it all. Although our scope for that project is mostly just the pipework, associated tanks, pumps and heat exchangers etc. so not as interesting as some of the other projects I've been on. Definitely a challenge though trying to figure out the introduction routes for some of the larger plant equipment! Especially since the vast majority of it is carried-in rather than walled-in as you'd expect it to be.  

 

Chernobyl is definitely on my bucket list. Although that won't be happening any time in the distant future for me unfortunately; just spent an absolute fortune booking hotels for my road trip in the Summer. I may try and include it on the route next year though dependant on my plans.

 

[TT350]

18 hours ago, Silverthorn said:

 The vast majority of it is Official Sensitive unfortunately. Had to pretty much sign my life away at the start of the project 

 

Likewise all of the Hinkley work is classified purely because of the commercial nature of it all. Although our scope for that project is mostly just the pipework, associated tanks, pumps and heat exchangers etc. so not as interesting as some of the other projects I've been on. Definitely a challenge though trying to figure out the introduction routes for some of the larger plant equipment! Especially since the vast majority of it is carried-in rather than walled-in as you'd expect it to be.  

 

Chernobyl is definitely on my bucket list. Although that won't be happening any time in the distant future for me unfortunately; just spent an absolute fortune booking hotels for my road trip in the Summer. I may try and include it on the route next year though dependant on my plans.

 

Yeah I thought it might be classified. 

 

I worked for BAE in logistics a few years back. It was scary the amount of digging they do into your life. Past and present. Bank statements for the last 5 years, advanced criminal check. 

 

I got into hot water because I was self employed for 3 of that 5 years and couldn't (suitably) account for the money I had going in. I didn't keep accounts as i had an accountant friend who did it all for me. They had to verify that I was actually in the country for those 3 years and not abroad, training with Al Qaeda or ISIS and that the money wasn't coming from them.  

 

Anyway, yeah, you do have to sign your life away.

 

How do pipes etc differ from, say, a fossil fuel power station? I know how they transfer heat to a tank of water by running a pipe with extremely hot high pressure water through another tank with water. Then that water boils and drives the turbine and that's the heat exchanger. And the water Carrie's on looping, heating and cooling. 

 

Are the pipes shielded? How is the radiation taken away, if it is taken away? All that water coming directly from the core. The steam must be so radioactive. The turbine blades, too. 

 

I've often wondered why power plants aren't built underground or into a mountain. It's self contained then. Just need a local water supply like, a lake or the sea. Mine further cavities for storage of spent rods. I've probably forgotten something that makes underground power plants impossible. 

 

But it would also take away the immediate catastrophic effects that happened in Chernobyl as it would be shut off from the atmosphere. Just evacuate and seal it.

 

 

[TT350]

 

This is cool!!! 

 

This video is even better. So interesting.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by TT350

[TT350]

 

 

 

[TT350]

 

[TT350]

Learned about this nuclear disaster today. Didn't even know about it previously. Shocking display of total carelessness. 

 

 

[DoogyRev]

5 hours ago, TT350 said:

 

****that!! is a hideous enough way to die without the quacks forcing you to live 

[TT350]

18 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

****that!! is a hideous enough way to die without the quacks forcing you to live 

Absolutely horrendous. 3 months!! Death should be a respite from suffering but they denied him that for the longest time. Until they could learn no more. 

 

It must be the most horrible way to die.

 

 

[TT350]

The Russians have commissioned their own Chernobyl series based on the "truth".

 

That truth is, apparently, that a CIA operative intentionally caused the reactor to explode.

 

Comrade Stalin would be proud.